Fuse box installed for £150 what!!!

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Discuss Fuse box installed for £150 what!!! in the Business Related area at ElectriciansForums.net

oldtimer said:
Selling short no stupid yes at these costs does the customer think they are getting a good deal and no doubt it is a cash job as for insurance and running costs me dont think this is a running business more like a visit to the pub and speak to the guy standing in the corner and if they want to do them for that cost then here is one who will not stand in their way
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cheap rates are because of the cheap labour coming into the game,more so on domestic,£12 ph is enough for a Electrical Trainee as they are wiling to work for free half of the time,they need to repay the quick course costs...so will undercut real sparks
 
alarm man said:
cheap rates are because of the cheap labour coming into the game,more so on domestic,£12 ph is enough for a Electrical Trainee as they are wiling to work for free half of the time,they need to repay the quick course costs...so will undercut real sparks
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We all know they can't sustain at £12 ph unless they are on the dole!u pays for what u gets?
 
alarm man said:
there will be many a Electrical Trainee will catch it before it hits the water mate..
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They'll throw it back in once they realise they would be better off workin at tesco! But after all £150 was the invoice price,could well of been near £300 if you included the folding stuff lol!!
 
alarm man said:
thats the problem,part p..would you trust a quick course spark with his part p qual,it is a qual by the way..or a spark with 20-30 yrs in to change your cu,even if it was a cash job..
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I know and you know who we would employ,maybe because we've got the said experience! (not boil in the bag sparks)
 
£150 is a good deal for the customer lots of people fail to charge the going rate!
If a good well established company charges £30+ per hour + Vat and puts 50% on the materials.
employs good qualified sparks is Part P registered and also Guarantees the work has been established for years has a good rep
Does a full fuse board change charges £450 + Vat
Goes on holiday Twice a year what would be the point of charging £150 (33%)
The answer is to go on a good business course and learn how to run a business which should make a profit so you can pay your bills like the Mortgage, Dentist, Accountant, your Tax etc etc

A wise man told me working for work sake is not a good idea! as time goes by we get a little bit older and a little bit slower.
Don’t live to work
Work to Live
 
You need to remember that yes £150 - all well and good at first sight but the problems come when the work is being done.

Half way through, that cable going to that socket is dangerous it can catch fire any minuet - I will replace it for you (and they replace it with the same cable) - an extra £50
There is no earth on your property, it will kill you (there really is an earth and nothing wrong with it) - an extra £50

All these things add up, and the average old lady will wonder around making them a cup of tea - nice man he changed lots of dangerous cables saved my house and my life.
In actual fact he only changed 1 CU and wired it up - no testing or anything - a cheap cert issued not Part P and they are never seen again.

And no I have not been watching to many rouge traders!!
 
alarm man said:
thats the problem,part p..would you trust a quick course spark with his part p qual,it is a qual by the way..or a spark with 20-30 yrs in to change your cu,even if it was a cash job..
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I'd employ someone who's up to date with their regs, understands design factors can work through the appropriate equations, good on the tools, neat worker, patient with customers, is registered with a CPS, can submit correctly filled in certs, has the appropriarte insurances and can offer the customer extended and and and
Not impressed by 30 years in the same industry, prefer a broader range of experience, someone who understands structures and building techniques for instance.

Would I trust a quick course sparky? If the course was an update that augmented and bought up to date that Sparky's skills and experience I'd take the sparky who'd bothered to keep their skills and knowledge up to date everytime!

Cheerss
 
Nicholas Owen said:
Just found the one I think your on about - a BG CU - 10 ways fully loaded for £50 + VAT.

Out of interest what is BG like? What is their reputation like for protection or are they a budget range?
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Installed today.
Yes its a cheaper one as is normally given away by the finish on plastic moulding, but not ultra cheap. ie the plastic is not translucent :) The door on this has tight movement.

There is plenty of room, good range of knock-outs, optional bus-bar arrangement and a very good selection of circuit identification labels.
I would use one again.
 
Just seen the £50 one in B&Q today.


Make - BG
10 way
White Lid - non see through

Comes with:
3 x 6A MCBs
1 x 16A MCB
5 x 32A MCBs
1 x 40A MCB


And typical B&Q dont stock the MCBs that go into them, they have to be ordered in.


In Trade Point Cat: £50 + VAT
Instore: £50 inc VAT

Not quiet sure how that works??????
 
Its just to keep the balance that the general public can get the gear first and foremost, and that they can get it cheaper than trade as well.

In this mad nation its much easier to get electrical gear from electrical wholesalers as Joe Bloggs than it is to get food stuff from catering wholesalers as Joe Bloggs - to do that you need all sorts of evidence you are in the catering game.
 
better still, anyone can go into a office block, school, shopping centre, in fact anywhere that there are lots of members of the general public at anyone time, and dont NEED to be registered to do electrics in there, but go round someones house and put a new socket in or fit an outside light NO NO NO!! you must be registered !!!
 
I was thinking about taking a handful of business cards into B&Q and dropping one in each of the CU Boxes, the chance of B&Q Staff looking in the boxes is quite slim.

Might get some work in, as there are so many in B&Q who are DIYers buying and doing their own electrics.

I stopped one today on the way out and asked her has she got anyone to fit that CU, she said ya her husband, I then asked her is he a electrician with reply of no
Told her I would be willing to fit it and sign it off as her husband would have to go to LABC and pay £180 to get it signed off and I could fit it for that, she said no, my husband has been doing it for years and never had to get anything signed off as its their house, tried to convince her she needed a sparky or LABC to sign it off but she would not have it!


It shows how dangerous it is with B&Q selling these as discounted items right next to the front door.

Had a look in 1 today as well, no warning labels or books to say only to be fitted by an electrician, just ready to install - whats that saying - anyone can install this!!!


What on earth is going on?? and they wonder why so many people are fitting their own electrics with no registration or LABC
 
Nicholas Owen said:
I stopped one today on the way out and asked her has she got anyone to fit that CU, she said ya her husband, I then asked her is he a electrician with reply of no
Told her I would be willing to fit it and sign it off as her husband would have to go to LABC and pay £180 to get it signed off and I could fit it for that, she said no, my husband has been doing it for years and never had to get anything signed off as its their house, tried to convince her she needed a sparky or LABC to sign it off but she would not have it!
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You are wasting your time there, if someone is buying one they will have someone to fit it. As for part P find me someoe who has been prosecuted for failure to adhere to it?


Nicholas Owen said:
Had a look in 1 today as well, no warning labels or books to say only to be fitted by an electrician, just ready to install - whats that saying - anyone can install this!!!
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All any instructions will say is, if in any doubt consult a qualified electrician. Nothing wrong with that as it passes any liability onto the customer.
 
When I say there was nothing, I mean there was nothing.

There was a wiring diagram (of how it is wired up in the box) nothing about how to fit it

No safety notices at all


In regards to alarm man's post - at least when someone does a short 17th regs course they have a copy of the regs and they would of gone through them in college, these DIYers have done nothing at all!

Even though saying that some of those who where on the 17th reg course with me, had done no previous electrical work or courses and they where doing the course with the aim of inspecting and maintaining factory electrical installations - and the college let them on - need to say they didnt pass the course as they didnt have a clue
 
B&Q do some guides for it though, so its all good. They skip the part on testing, but I think if you plug a radio or the likes into a socket and it works you have done ok. If a light switches on and off you are good to go. Things like a broken ring either refer to the cooker, what goes on the finger or something much much more painful.
 
Nicholas Owen said:
When I say there was nothing, I mean there was nothing.

There was a wiring diagram (of how it is wired up in the box) nothing about how to fit it

No safety notices at all


In regards to alarm man's post - at least when someone does a short 17th regs course they have a copy of the regs and they would of gone through them in college, these DIYers have done nothing at all!

Even though saying that some of those who where on the 17th reg course with me, had done no previous electrical work or courses and they where doing the course with the aim of inspecting and maintaining factory electrical installations - and the college let them on - need to say they didnt pass the course as they didnt have a clue
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Well I woldn't worry yourself over it, after all if there are no instructions it becomes the manufacturers problem should any thing bad happen.
 
Nicholas Owen said:
When I say there was nothing, I mean there was nothing.

There was a wiring diagram (of how it is wired up in the box) nothing about how to fit it

No safety notices at all


In regards to alarm man's post - at least when someone does a short 17th regs course they have a copy of the regs and they would of gone through them in college, these DIYers have done nothing at all!

Even though saying that some of those who where on the 17th reg course with me, had done no previous electrical work or courses and they where doing the course with the aim of inspecting and maintaining factory electrical installations - and the college let them on - need to say they didnt pass the course as they didnt have a clue
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what the difference between a diy'er and someone with only a 17th ed course to their name,its a joke but theres no punch line..
 
alarm man said:
what the difference between a diy'er and someone with only a 17th ed course to their name,its a joke but theres no punch line..
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Well they'll have an up to date set of regs and OSG, they'll probably have some decent test gear, be aware of what works are notifiable, will have read through part p and been tested on it, will probably be registered on a CPS therefore will have appropriate insurances etc etc... Way ahead of the average DIYer!

For balance there are many time served electricians who havent looked at a regs book in years and think that they have nothing more to learn. Ones that have no problem pulling DNO fuses (until one falls apart in their hands) no problem clamping 951's to Tn-S sheafs (until one goes bang after crushing the lead and the paper etc etc..) and so on.

Just saying...
 
Stevesplatto said:
For balance there are many time served electricians who havent looked at a regs book in years and think that they have nothing more to learn. Ones that have no problem pulling DNO fuses (until one falls apart in their hands) no problem clamping 951's to Tn-S sheafs (until one goes bang after crushing the lead and the paper etc etc..) and so on.

Just saying...
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i take it your a part p/Electrical Trainee/diet spark then..
 
I wouldn't trust any B&Q leaflets.
I find the Collins DIY manual to be very useful, a lot easier to read and understand than BS7671.
I believe they now do a manual just for wiring?
 
alarm man said:
i take it your a part p/Electrical Trainee/diet spark then..
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I take it your a 30 year, been there done it all spark then ;-]

I've been working in the building trade on and off since I was 14 (54 now, went out with my dad as a sparks on the Mars shutdowns, complete blag) C&G mech Engineering, C&G Carpentry, travelled a bit, worked in homelessness 18 years, blah blah blah. Back full circle, did Part P to bring myself up to date and self certificate, started a little domestic installation business. Saw 'experienced' parks testing Ze without disconnecting main earths, saw kids great on theory who couldnt strip a wire. My comments stand, it's about competance and that's not always measured in time or singular experiences... We're all learning!

s
 
RWJ said:
£125 is the new low in this area.
The job was for a relative of a good customer of ours, normal scenario 5 way wylex no bonding gas and water both other end of house!

**** FOR FULL QUOTE CLICK THE >>
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JUST AN UPDATE (Sorry to hijack)

The guys went today to measure up for the heaters in the house previously mentioned......

Proteous RCD as main incommer Board with 4 breakers
NO BONDING
NO LABELLING (Apart from circuit ids)

He also seems to have put in 4 MCB's where there were 5 fuses - He's decided to run the immersion of the socket RFC and not off a separate breaker!

All in All CARP.. Pictures taken.... customer advised to contact BRCS (as obviously we're not allowed to :angry_smile:)
 
Last edited:
I'm off down the council to have a chat about all this.
I'm not self certified...
See 1.22 of Part P.

I've had a request to do some notifiable work, want to keep it legal for the customer.

I'll do a better job than a lot of these so called registered monkeys.
 
i really really really hope this part p rubbish is gone soon along with di courses and domestic installers aswell its a big slap in the face to electricians everywhere loopjole in the industry and its disgusting the lack of experience shows on all installs they do and in every question they ask on here i hate the country we live in for ruining our industry

and for all the people who say everyones got to start somewhere then go to a REAL COLLEGE and get some REAL QUALIFICATIONS do this part time then try to gain experience during the course and when you are ready then go out and have a go on your own instead of doing a rubbish di course and 5 weeks later installing code 1s in peoples houses none the wiser

only one good thing comes from it is that the actual competant people get work fixing the scam deemed competent peoples work, scam deemed competant person = anyone with 500 quid to their name
 
Big genaralisation there PD..
Lots of diferent scenarios in the 5/7ww..
I agree that there are a lot of kids moving through the 5/7 week schemes who arent up to scratch at all. They've had no practical experience and are nursed through the Part P exams with 100% pass rate guarantees. I can't imagine these kids last long on their own. Don't see them shelling out for a CPS scheme and taking on any but the most basic work with any success. But most of those kids are planning to go out as mates anyway which is about the closest thing to an apprenticeship theyre going to be able to get these days.

Then there were the 'I know everything' sparks on 1 dayers boning up on 17th edition for their CPS. Their regs knowledge and some of their procedures were rusty (doing IR's before continuity tests for instance). Funny how they would argue that 'the regs are wrong' and 'thats's not what NIC say'...

Then there are the 50+ 'change off career' people. Worked in diferent aspects of the building trade or some technical industry, have technical knowledge, can chase a wall blah de blah who need to get up to scratch with the regs.

My take on all this is if you want to setup and run a domestic installation business you need to know a lot more than how to fill out an EIC etc.. Apprenticeships, 5/7ww's, work experience are not enough.
Pricing, admin, tax, promotion, website, handling clients, dealing with conflicts and miss-understanding and and and...

I've invested around £10K (not including my transport etc) so far in setting up my business. I'm still underestimating how long things take (I'm no slouch on the tools thou') but I will not cut corners or sign-off sub standard work which is endemic in this industry.

I think Part P is a good thing given the standards of workmanship and dangerous practice out there. So far I havnt managed to do a job where I havent found something that's outright lethal (like live cables just cut off and left in ceiling voids (and it was looped off a ring main, *stards)). But it's toothless because it isnt enforced to any real degree.

Resources like this excelent forum are really useful for raising standards. The cowboy, (just break the seals) attitudes are always challenged and people have put real effort into explaining things properly (like adiabatic equations, sheesh!).

Cheers
s
 
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