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Discuss Good Luck Mr Damian Skelton (D.Skelton Electrical) in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

The first section represented the sparks better. Baby trying to walk springs to mind. Jib need to note it's not just about nvq 3. These times we live in were not all in trade from day one of training. Well done to the first section though.
 
I'm not sure they should have had a representative from a Training Provider giving evidence, could be construed as 'Self Interest' as far as eliminating Electrical Trainee. Things like that get picked up on!
 
Hey Archy, agreed, but everybody knew what he represented and i thought he came across ok. But, what is the consensus, LABC control is obviously a no go, so..........single scheme & register, one card for name of individual (not company) , teeth for policing, advertising.....but the sticking point entry quals....what constitutes competancy and qualification.....cos NVQ3 at 3 grand is b........s.....t
 
You came across well Mr S, as did your fellow panel members. Shame the second lot were given the right to reply! Is it too much to hope that the committee blows all of the schemes out of the water and creates a government backed single enterprise with one register and strict qualifying criteria?
 
The first lot deserve medals for plain speaking ...... whilst the second lot should be ashamed of themselves. Talk about turkeys not voting for Xmas!
 
I thought DS came across well, as he'll see from posts elsewhere.

However, I have to ask....

Who did your makeup Daaahling you looked positively aaawful. :p
 
You could of had a shave for your online appearance ;) ;) ... just watching the next bunch getting grilled... they are buckling in areas :goofy:

Haha, cheeky sod! I like my beard thank you very much! London was very nippy today and I can say that my face was comfortably warm the whole time! :D

I bet his Mum's got tears in her eyes watching her boy there! :)

Boy?! Oit! who're you calling 'boy'?! lol :)

Well guys, thank you all very much for the support and the positive comments! You can at least put a face to the name now :D

It was certainly an experience I won't be forgetting in a hurry! I hope to be able to do it again some day!
 
Well, that was very interesting...Mr Skelton you came across very well, must have been quite stressfull... especially without the lackys the second panel had, handing notes to them when they got tongue tied.
They were saved by the bell....one register in 6 months time with some symbol or quality mark that must be registered first to protect their profits, probably in the shape of a swastika surrounded by £££££ notes......but be careful what you wish for........

tighter regulations on qualifications to join such a scheme/register and become an electrician will inevitably fuel a gold rush for the training providers (including all the schemes themselves as most provide training courses) and we'll all have to achieve a new and very expensive qualification to continue working, along with increased annual assessment fees to cover the cost of the new register and advertising to the public, and of course enforcement for not being a member of the scheme...god Im so cynical.......but right

I totally agree with the above, there is no way they will ever scrap the scheme's & the yearly fee's will most likely increase to cover the new licence or badge. I agree that 3 years at college plus an inspection & testing qualification (2391) on top should be the absolute minimum.
 
For his services to our profession Mr. Skelton now has the title:

Fidei Defensor
Defender of the Faith

The same accord has been given elsewhere.

Thank you Damian.
 
Agree with the Guys Damien, you did a great Job fella, I watched the whole thing and what came across to me was the committee didn't like the schemes at all and they actually listened to the trade. We will have to wait and see what occurs now, They were not too pleased about the 2012 changes to part p either, that came across pretty bad and maybe third party certification may end at he very least who knows?
 
The committee’s dislike of the schemes came across loud and clear. Why I’m getting so het up about something that’s never concerned me I don’t know.

It’s the working electricians fight not really mine at all.
 
Thanks for that Simon :)

Gah despite having installed the correct microsoft plugin it still tells me i need to install it. FU microsoft !
 
The committee’s dislike of the schemes came across loud and clear. Why I’m getting so het up about something that’s never concerned me I don’t know.

Because you have loved this industry your whole life, you just want newcomers to it (I'd happily refer to myself as a newcomer in comparison to time served oldies like you :D) to be as skilled as possible. Like any reasonable human being, you just hate watching something you have respected your whole life get systematically ripped apart.

I totally get that.
 
I've had time to reflect on the screened session yesterday and on reflection I think the MP's actually did a good job too. So its looking like the sparks and the MP's are on the same side so the schemes are definitely under pressure!

On a slightly different subject how can the schemes justify allowing 1 QS sign off "any bodies" work in the company as compliant and at the same time charge the same amount as a diligent sole trader!
 
I felt the woman on there actually played into our hands, she was appalling and her nodding head must have frustrated the MPs, she talked complete Crap and everyone there knew it lol
 
I felt the woman on there actually played into our hands, she was appalling and her nodding head must have frustrated the MPs, she talked complete Crap and everyone there knew it lol

Emma Clancy, CEO of certsure, (NICEIC and elecsa), all she has managed to do is promote her pet project of "jobs for the girls", while ignoring real issues. Some CEO she is!. The schemes were blatantly trying to protect their income. Fair play to Skelton and co, the 4 of them did well, apart from Dr no who just talked nonsense.
 
Does Emma Clancy know what a spark actually does?
Of course she does, sparks work hard and pay their fees so she can have a cushey well paid job that entails going to The Seychelles on fact finding missions for British consumers every now and then.

Well done Mr Skelton by the way :)
 
I just watched thr 2nd part.
Was really surprised at the ECA guy not kicking ---.
The end guy next to E.C. said at one point that someone with a level 3 qualification and some experience is competent work on their own. The JIB (National Working Rules) states that an electrician cannot work on his own (after a 4 year apprenticeship). Working on your own comes with your approved status later on, after another 2 years of experience. This has always been the rules since the sixties/seventies.
Clearly the others are protecting their golden goose but to be fair the MPs were not stupid and I think saw through it. One of them even walked out!
All the way through, when they were asked about competent, qualified, etc I (prob MPs too) was thinking, just say apprentice trained mate, job done.

Boydy
 
Not quite sure what that talking shop has gained

Some good ideas put forward by the first group of contributors whether they will be acted on remains to be seen with comments made towards the close of the meeting

The second group were in self justification, preservation and balance sheet protection mode stumbling over figures and desperately trying to cover up what is more likely the actual truth

Left wondering at the end what if any gain has been made and if the first group were asked to attend to give the impression that all interested parties evidence was being heard the second group are really the people who should have been doing the listening as well as the MP's as they indicated at the end they intend to present some sort of unified solution for a single identity multi scheme assessment system that will be rubber stamped by a minister and the merry go round will carry on as before this seemed to get a tentative agreement from the MP's this can only be another step into a bigger mire in this industry

The video really is a good example of how government committees aren't working would have liked to have seen the first group have the chance to respond to what the schemes presented or evidence taken in a different order
 
The video really is a good example of how government committees aren't working would have liked to have seen the first group have the chance to respond to what the schemes presented or evidence taken in a different order

One definitely got the impression that this parliamentary committee was just going through the motions, rather than really listening and understanding the real problems and issues within our industry. If these politicians go down the road of trying to appease both sides, then it's been a waste of time.

All these buggers need to do, is look at what's happening in the other Western European countries, or even to our Commonwealth countries to see how things should be done!! Can't be anything easier than to adopt a system that has been tried and tested and best of all, ...WORKS!! That goes for both recognised minimum training standards and a National Registration system with teeth. None of which are run by private profit based companies!!!

We'll just wait and see what actually transpires??
 
If they (MPs) were just going through the motions Eng., what happens if in the near future if some poor sod gets hurt or killed by an unqualified (but competent, ha) scam member now that the trade (first panel) has raised concerns.
The MPs duty of care, to the public, would be crushing after this recorded debate. Therefor they have to do something.

Boydy
 
I still think theres room for a new single scheme for the Sparky, run by sparkies, for sparkies and not for profit.

£125.00 per year, per sole trader and a sliding scale upwards for larger businesses. Annual checks for the "trusted" would be scrapped and instead the inspectors would follow up on rogue workmanship and do random inspections of notified work.

Utopia!
 
If they (MPs) what happens if in the near future if some poor sod gets hurt or killed by an unqualified (but competent, ha) scam member now that the trade (first panel) has raised concerns.

Boydy

I would imagine he would get treated exactly the same as the qualified spark in this case, who in my opinion will get the book thrown at him much more than the unqualified spark.
http://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/43/unlawful-killing.cfm?
 
If they (MPs) were just going through the motions Eng., what happens if in the near future if some poor sod gets hurt or killed by an unqualified (but competent, ha) scam member now that the trade (first panel) has raised concerns.
The MPs duty of care, to the public, would be crushing after this recorded debate. Therefor they have to do something.

Boydy

My meaning being, that as politicians, they will want to please everyone to a certain degree, especially those that are ''employers'' the last thing they want to be held responsible for, is adding to the unemployment!! lol!
Trying to appease both sides is what i'm expecting, but i hope i'm wrong!!

Unfortunately decisive government in the UK is a thing of the past....
 
7 Years to get to this stage of affairs!!!!! That question to the NICEIC will no doubt end up in file 13, as they can't answer it without showing themselves up for what they are!!
 
The MPs are savvy enough to see that it is the system that killed Emma Shaw. How much of a part in that system the electricians currently in court played is up to the court to decide.
 
congratulations Mr Skelton for representing all electricians regarding Part P

I feel your points were valid and well put
the majority of the first witness eveidence/statements was valid including regarding enforcement apart from the doctors who kept repeating himself regarding Labc , building inspectors and mainly talking about drains and footings lol

One License for electricans whether via the JIB or whoever , one register, one set of quals is the only way forward as in my experience the old apprenticeships were far superior than the different routes we have now as I have done all 3

The woman from certsure seemed only interested in making themselves look like they were the only ones trying to sort this mess when in reality its them who is causing the whole sorry mess considering certsure is a recent venture what does she know apart from ensuring they and the schemes thrive in a commercial sense
the Guy behind who was one of your fellows giving evidence first was shaking his head the whole time she was speaking and trying best not to laugh or blurt some kind of response to her
she was making out that for larger enterprises they would have more than 1 QS and she would provide evidence of the numbers they would be allowed to supervise were in reality they dont and the QS doesnt always Inspect and test all the work carried out by others.
Part p was bad to start with but all the recent changes have weakened it so anyone can carry out the majority of work without notification and most will do without I&T or certification DIYers, rogue builders, kitchen fitters , plumbers etc etc
The commitee didnt really understand what a competent person is , who should be doing the work, what qualificatiosn they should have. Think they were mixing yup qualifications, competence , and status i,e QS, Electrician, trainee etc etc
I just hope it doesnt result in more Qualifications and costs for electricians we need less costs and less C&G new qualifications along with the EAL ones

They need to seperate the building requirments away from whats required regarding competence , assessed enterprises, qualified unregistered electricians and whats required to be a registered fully qualified Electrician once your qualified you should know whats required to meet Building regs, Electricity regs, EAWR and H&S and not be paying a large sum of money each year to keep proving your competence
They wont like a version of gas safety as there pockets wont be as deep if your only assessed every five years

Anyway good on ya for standing up for electricians

I feel in the short time you had you managed on whole to get most electricians veiws across
 
It's worth noting in another case that the landlady had attempted to get an EICR done but due to pressure of work the electrician had been unable to do it before the tenant moved in. The deceased's husband had commented that a gas certificate was mandatory but no such legislation exists for electrics.
Just proof again of how our legislators are not keeping up with the times. The landlady received a fine in this case.
Young mother electrocuted by live tap as she ran a bath in her family's new home | Mail Online
 

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