Good Old Delroy, he gets all the best Jobs :)

[Mike Johnson]

This is going no where, you will keep saying you can drop cables into a cavity and I will keep saying it is bad practice and unacceptable in any build, any building surveyor or even a quantity surveyor will condemn or want it rectified before approval or payment is made, you stand on your own, but keep posting you will eventually convince some poor soul that they can drop cables down a cavity and then spend extra time rectifying it on a larger project, where "thats what I'm always done" is not acceptable.

 

[mainline]

This is going no where, you will keep saying you can drop cables into a cavity and I will keep saying it is bad practice and unacceptable in any build, any building surveyor or even a quantity surveyor will condemn or want it rectified before approval or payment is made, you stand on your own, but keep posting you will eventually convince some poor soul that they can drop cables down a cavity and then spend extra time rectifying it on a larger project, where "thats what I'm always done" is not acceptable.

Right at the beginning I said there are lots of reasons for NOT doing it but to say its “unacceptable” is completely wrong because it is acceptable if the criteria is met, you may very well not be able to meet that criteria but if you can then it's acceptable.

I guess we now are all going to have nightmares thinking about all the properties that have outside sockets and lights that are going to be scrutinized by Mr building surveyor looking at all the bridges of the cavities.

Have you any thoughts how mains tails are run ?

 

[DPG]

Right at the beginning I said there are lots of reasons for NOT doing it but to say its “unacceptable” is completely wrong because it is acceptable if the criteria is met, you may very well not be able to meet that criteria but if you can then it's acceptable.

I guess we now are all going to have nightmares thinking about all the properties that have outside sockets and lights that are going to be scrutinized by Mr building surveyor looking at all the bridges of the cavities.

Have you any thoughts how mains tails are run ?

My meter tails are run in the cavity for approx 4 feet. It is not a good idea and shouldn't be done. Anyone drilling through for example for an outside tap will hit non-RCD protected tails backed up by a 300 Amp substation fuse. No safe zones, so no idea they are there. Don't use that as a good example.

 

[mainline]

Mike, can you please define 'strawmanning', so the forum can understand where you're coming from

I understand now learn something new every day.

 

[mainline]

My meter tails are run in the cavity for approx 4 feet. It is not a good idea and shouldn't be done. Anyone drilling through for example for an outside tap will hit non-RCD protected tails backed up by a 300 Amp substation fuse. No safe zones, so no idea they are there. Don't use that as a good example.

Your tails wouldn't be acceptable if they met the criteria, then they would be, obviously.

 

[DPG]

Your tails wouldn't be acceptable if they met the criteria, then they would be, obviously.

Exactly - obviously. Nailed it.

 

[Dave OCD]

Just out of interest, how would you wire an outside socket without passing a cable through the wall from inside to out - and even in a bungalow no one in their right mind would run a cable right down the wall outside in a conduit from the loft when there's a nicely placed existing 'back to back' socket inside.

 

[mainline]

Just out of interest, how would you wire an outside socket without passing a cable through the wall from inside to out - and even in a bungalow no one in their right mind would run a cable right down the wall outside in a conduit from the loft when there's a nicely placed existing 'back to back' socket inside.

According to Mike, you can't, it's unacceptable.

In reality, you would drill a hole at a slight angle to the outside world.

 

[Dave OCD]

Always have gone slightly downhill from inside to out, and always try to do the last inch or two without the hammer action, gives a nice clean hole, just like @HappyHippyDad and his electric bog.

 

[DPG]

According to Mike, you can't, it's unacceptable.

In reality, you would drill a hole at a slight angle to the outside world.

Again, that's a different scenario. Obviously you may have to get a cable through the wall, as you would a gas pipe etc . It is not the same as chucking several feet of loose T&E in a cavity to save chasing it!

 

[mainline]

Again, that's a different scenario. Obviously you may have to get a cable through the wall, as you would a gas pipe etc . It is not the same as chucking several feet of loose T&E in a cavity to save chasing it!

A bit of a joke really isn't it.

It seems that it's Ok for instance a 110mm fan pipe to bridge the gap as well as the dozens of ties, water, gas, etc etc but not a bit of cable.

 

[Mike Johnson]

A controlled penetration like a fan pipe compared to metres of cable flapping around loose in a cavity is not a comparison, but you carry on wriggling and finding excuses, eventually you will find someone that will agree with you and then you may, just may believe it your self.

 

[DPG]

A bit of a joke really isn't it.

It seems that it's Ok for instance a 110mm fan pipe to bridge the gap as well as the dozens of ties, water, gas, etc etc but not a bit of cable.

You already admitted earlier (post 528) that cables shouldn't bridge cavities. I'm not sure why you keep returning to the same point.

 

[westward10]

And Delroy carries on blissfully unaware of the carry on he is causing on here

 

[7029 dave]

Again, that's a different scenario. Obviously you may have to get a cable through the wall, as you would a gas pipe etc . It is not the same as chucking several feet of loose T&E in a cavity to save chasing it!

Dont want to start any arguments , but the way I read #523 IMO its not different the cable is present.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I think we are all getting a bit carried away , running a cable through a straight hole from inside to out is fine.
I tend to agree that weaving metres of cable up and down a cavity wall isn't the best install method but again it has been done like that for donkeys years on old rewires. Infact an empty cavity wall made a perfect wire way and meant a 2 man team could rewire an old council house in about 3 days.
IF you had to chop out chases it would have added another 2 days and a ---- tonne of mess

 

[7029 dave]

I think we are all getting a bit carried away , running a cable through a straight hole from inside to out is fine.
I tend to agree that weaving metres of cable up and down a cavity wall isn't the best install method but again it has been done like that for donkeys years on old rewires. Infact an empty cavity wall made a perfect wire way and meant a 2 man team could rewire an old council house in about 3 days.
IF you had to chop out chases it would have added another 2 days and a ---- tonne of mess

When we were pulling an old rubber twin switch cable through the cavity, made on new to to old the tenant was watching and was quite blown away that their wall with pictures and nice flowery wall paper (lol) was still intact and watching this new pvc cable slip up the wall, followed by a nice white switch and patress.

 

[mainline]

A controlled penetration like a fan pipe compared to metres of cable flapping around loose in a cavity is not a comparison, but you carry on wriggling and finding excuses, eventually you will find someone that will agree with you and then you may, just may believe it your self.

You are totally going off track to try to hide the fact that you are wrong.

I didn't say it was OK to throw metres of cable or bridge gaps, in fact, I said it was unacceptable, so i don't know why you are coming up with scenarios that obviously wouldn't comply.

How about this : I run a conduit along the inner leaf with no bridge to the outer (although you said it's fine as it's a controlled penetration) feeding a socket, tell me how that wouldn't comply ?.




What I did say was that if the criteria can be met, there is nothing wrong with doing so.

You said it can't be done under any circumstances, but then failed to reply to my question of tails in a cavity.

My point is that you CAN run cable in a cavity as long as you meet the criteria, that is a fact.
If you took the time to read what I said, it may start to sink in that you are wrong.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I think we are all getting a bit carried away , running a cable through a straight hole from inside to out is fine.
I tend to agree that weaving metres of cable up and down a cavity wall isn't the best install method but again it has been done like that for donkeys years on old rewires. Infact an empty cavity wall made a perfect wire way and meant a 2 man team could rewire an old council house in about 3 days.
IF you had to chop out chases it would have added another 2 days and a ---- tonne of mess

Dusty, you have hands-on experience of running cables in cavities. Did you ever come across any problems as a result of wiring this way?

Edit: same question to @7029 dave

 

[Mike Johnson]

The likelihood of a customer attributing their damp problems to the electrical works carried out possibly a year or so earlier is stretching it a bit don't you think?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

The likelihood of a customer attributing their damp problems to the electrical works carried out possibly a year or so earlier is stretching it a bit don't you think?

I don't want to argue with you Mike. Just interested to hear if they've found problems as a result

 

[Mike Johnson]

I doubt if any electrician would hear of any problems that running cables inside a cavity would cause, in the first instance the cause would have to be found, that would require a camera inside the cavity to find the bridge between the two wall skins, it is not unusual to do this and to find mortar snots (yes that is what lumps of mortar in a cavity are called) on the wall ties, this is generally because cavity battens where not used correctly during construction to clean the cavity. Equally any other bridge found would cause a damp problem to the inside skin.

 

[7029 dave]

Dusty, you have hands-on experience of running cables in cavities. Did you ever come across any problems as a result of wiring this way?

Edit: same question to @7029 dave

No problems what so ever, as DD these were council houses we were an approved company with the nic no DI back then.
I was an apprentice so dont know the full details, but the council must of inspected the work and it may have even been in the spec (who knows).
As mentioned previously it was much quicker and no real disruption or mess, just to add the old rubber cables we provided in the cavity from build it was like for like replacement.

I am not going to go into the rights or wrongs into this practice. As explained the council tenants were more than happy as the houses was not ripped apart no redecoration etc.
So I would expect the council inspectors were satisfied to.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Dusty, you have hands-on experience of running cables in cavities. Did you ever come across any problems as a result of wiring this way?

Edit: same question to @7029 dave

Not from a wiring Pov , sometimes you got snagged on a wall tie or some rough mortar but 99% of the time it was easy to pull cables in the cavity (an empty cavity) in older houses

If the cavity had a little bit fibre glass , polystyrene or those dreaded little poly balls in it then it was harder and sometimes you would give up fishing a cable and chase the wall instead

No idea about modern houses thou , as I uses a twin disc wall chases now to nip out a chase

 

[Mike Johnson]

Can't turn on the TV now days without seeing a report on social housing damp problems.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Can't turn on the TV now days without seeing a report on social housing damp problems.

Usually its heavy black mould growing all around the badly fitted window frames

 

[Pretty Mouth]

No problems what so ever, as DD these were council houses we were an approved company with the nic no DI back then.
I was an apprentice so dont know the full details, but the council must of inspected the work and it may have even been in the spec (who knows).
As mentioned previously it was much quicker and no real disruption or mess, just to add the old rubber cables we provided in the cavity from build it was like for like replacement.

I am not going to go into the rights or wrongs into this practice. As explained the council tenants were more than happy as the houses was not ripped apart no redecoration etc.
So I would expect the council inspectors were satisfied to.

Not from a wiring Pov , sometimes you got snagged on a wall tie or some rough mortar but 99% of the time it was easy to pull cables in the cavity (an empty cavity) in older houses

If the cavity had a little bit fibre glass , polystyrene or those dreaded little poly balls in it then it was harder and sometimes you would give up fishing a cable and chase the wall instead

No idea about modern houses thou , as I uses a twin disc wall chases now to nip out a chase

Thanks for the replies guys. So usually you were just using the old cables to pull the new through?

I have only done it a couple of times, where extra points were needed on tiled walls in kitchens, but the owners didn't want the tiles wrecked. I found it difficult to do, even with an empty cavity, though this may have been down to inexperience. If I was going to do it again, I'd core out a large hole, but small enough to be covered by the backbox.

I did attempt to rod a cat6 cable down a cavity 2 storeys, with full-fill rockwool. I gave up after an hour!

 

[Mike Johnson]

Usually its heavy black mould growing all around the badly fitted window frames

Usually its due to lack of ventilation, but mould on the ceilings and floors adjacent to wall are a different matter.

 

[mainline]

It would be a shame to let the thread go cold when there's more beauty's like this! See if you can spot why he can't test the RCD (before reading the comments!)

I didn't see him fix any faults. Saw him find a fault (high zs) and seemingly be massively confused by it. Also saw him turning circuits back on while leaving unterminated wires hanging out of a socket (again)

He is right about You have a major fault, though.
It started as soon as the customer let him

 

[mainline]

I remember someone saying about Dels videos are not polished etc compared to others.

I would be interested in any thoughts on this one.

 

[Petej999]

I remember someone saying about Dels videos are not polished etc compared to others.

I would be interested in any thoughts on this one.

Disjointed and not telling the full picture, like most of stuff he post up, stares at the MFT and no xplanation as to what if anything he has done good for a laugh though

 

[Mike Johnson]

Schneider make a very interesting board with hinged DIN rails makes fitting out much easier, as far as I know only available as a multi row board in plastic.

 

[Petej999]

I remember the one where he was sorting some dodgy sockets under kitchen cupboards. He routed the cables around the cupboards and up the wall completely out of any prescribed zones and called it a good job.

Cool

 

[Dustydazzler]

To be fair to Del , he was trying not to ruin the customers new build kitchen by routing the cables to avoid too much surface damage

 

[mainline]

Cool

When he says “No one has a clue what's going on”, that includes himself


This is a good one, Pete at the end of the video he shows how having 40 years of experience has pretty much amounted to knowing next to nothing.

 

[goasis]

When he says “No one has a clue what's going on”, that includes himself


This is a good one, Pete at the end of the video he shows how having 40 years of experience has pretty much amounted to knowing next to nothing.

Well done for getting the thread back on track!!
I think i saw him mention before he always records the x1 trip time even if the RCD is being used for additional protection. Guess that's what they did "back in the day" Although that's all changing in am2 isn't it?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Well done for getting the thread back on track!!
I think i saw him mention before he always records the x1 trip time even if the RCD is being used for additional protection. Guess that's what they did "back in the day" Although that's all changing in am2 isn't it?

We always used to record 1 x and 5 x from RCDs

 

[Petej999]

Disjointed and not telling the full picture, like most of stuff he post up, stares at the MFT and no xplanation as to what if anything he has done good for a laugh though

Just like his work then

When he says “No one has a clue what's going on”, that includes himself


This is a good one, Pete at the end of the video he shows how having 40 years of experience has pretty much amounted to knowing next to nothing.

 

[mainline]

We always used to record 1 x and 5 x from RCDs

Ahh, that's because Del is always one step ahead.

 

[Petej999]

A bit of a joke really isn't it.

It seems that it's Ok for instance a 110mm fan pipe to bridge the gap as well as the dozens of ties, water, gas, etc etc but not a bit of cable.

When is DEL going to bring out a record to the tune of "jive talking" by the BGs and call it "Drivel talking"

 

[Dave OCD]

Not sure why but I get an inkling that Pete isn't Delroys biggest fan....

 

[mainline]

When is DEL going to bring out a record to the tune of "jive talking" by the BGs and call it "Drivel talking"

More like Bob Marley - Ganja in my brain

​

 

[mainline]

More like Bob Marley - Ganja in my brain

​

Proper job

 

[goasis]

Proper job

Seemed more concerned about the misaligned sockets than any electrical testing... Still for £100 an hr.....

 

[mainline]

Seemed more concerned about the misaligned sockets than any electrical testing... Still for £100 an hr.....

Always something to learn from good old Del.

 

[Lister1987]

Not sure why but I get an inkling that Pete isn't Delroys biggest fan....

He's just ----ed he's been replaced as Chairman of the Del fan club by @Dustydazzler

 

[Dustydazzler]

Seemed more concerned about the misaligned sockets than any electrical testing... Still for £100 an hr.....

Love the way Del spends 10-15 mins huffing and puffing over the overlapping flat plate sockets

Comedy gold right there

 

[Diddy]

I get the impression that a lot of people slag off Del's work would not have the balls to post up their own work for all to scrutinise. Might be a touch of envy that Del charges 3 figures an hour while many of these guys do £25's if they are lucky...Just the way some come across like.
It is not confined to Del btw, I also note that almost every UK based youtube spark comes in for similar treatment lol, Artisan electrics even got slammed for being able to charge hundreds where others charge pennies lol.

 

[Dustydazzler]

£50 for Dels electrical knowledge & £50 because it is Del the celeb

 

[DPG]

I get the impression that a lot of people slag off Del's work would not have the balls to post up their own work for all to scrutinise. Might be a touch of envy that Del charges 3 figures an hour while many of these guys do £25's if they are lucky...Just the way some come across like.
It is not confined to Del btw, I also note that almost every UK based youtube spark comes in for similar treatment lol, Artisan electrics even got slammed for being able to charge hundreds where others charge pennies lol.

Nothing to do with the money. It's the work I've seen in his videos that doesn't really impress me. I don't honestly think it is worth the premium amount being charged.