Green Deal Providers

[greendeal]

Got some updates on the Green Deal. The government has announced the first list of official providers..


Green Deal Providers

Ampere GDP
Anglian Home Improvements
BritishEco
British Gas
CarbonLow Group
Carillion
Empower Community
Enact
E.ON
Gentoo Group
Grafton Group
Insta Group
Keepmoat
Kingfisher Future Homes
Mark Group
ReEnergise Finance
SIG plc
SSE
Stroma
Toriga Energy
Willmott Dixon Energy Services
Yorkshire Energy Services

Green Deal | Green Deal Scheme, Green Deal Finance, Green Deal Providers, Reports, Green Deal Installers & more..

 

[TedM]

These people aren't actually official Green Deal Providers - at least not yet. No body can be as the systems have not been set up to allow anyone to sign up.

All they have done is sign a letter of intent that indicates they intend to become GD Providers once it is possible to do so.

 

[Glen Powell]

From what I gather Stroma may not be in the mix or not a large player in this.

Greandeal your site looks as if it is meant to have some official capacity, howerver I assume it is gearing up for sales purposes as you are asking people to register their interests.

There is a pilot scheme being run at the moment with Stroma and a few other potential providers, but as TedM rightly said the infrastructure is not yet in place to allow providers to participate.

 

[sedgy34]

always the big boys benfitting

 

[Gavin A]

erm not being funny, but isn't that website entirely misleading?

As I understand it the Green Deal can in no way be considered to be a government grant scheme, being as it's entirely based around loans, no grants.

If you're going to set up a website to provide information on something like this, you could at least get the basics right and help to clarify things rather than muddy the waters further.

I've even read through the first half of your information page and if I didn't know better myself I'd still have had no clue that the green deal was a loan and not a grant.

 

[TedM]

The ECO part of GD is a grant system, but it will not be available for everyone.

 

[sedgy34]

The green deal is for everyone who wants to put solar etc on there property and it makes it more affordable to the general public who havnt got large sums of money in a bank account.
check out the decc website for all info click on green deal

 

[Gavin A]

The ECO part of GD is a grant system, but it will not be available for everyone.

oh, what's the ECO part of GD?

first time I've heard anything about grants under green deal, though I must admit that my eyes tend to glaze over at the complexity of the scheme when I try to read anything about it.

 

[sedgy34]

there are no grants available just loans from energy sulppliers when the green deal comes out and you pay them back in your monthly elec bills but at the same time if you have solar you would benefit from the electric generated throughout the day.
the carbon trust do loans too but certain criteria has to be met by both eg payback within 7 yrs etc

 

[Somecamel]

Carlsburg don't do loans but if they did they would probably be the best loans in the world

 

[sedgy34]

The green deal will be a massive scheme come this october!!! i imagine The government will be advertising it too late summer.

 

[sambotc]

ECO (energy company obligation) is as already said a grant available through the green deal from the big energy companies. I'm not 100% but I think it is aimed at people who cannot afford the payments or to help those on low incomes to reduce the size of the monthly payments.

These listed companies have all been accepted to start the green deal in the Autumn, a bit like a pilot scheme, with the intention of other companies joining in early 2012 from what I have heard (I know of someone who works in this dept. for one of the above mentioned companies)

 

[TedM]

The ECO is the Energy Company Obligation part of Green Deal. This replaces the current CERT/CESP which funds free lightbulbs and cheap/free insulation (and provides large profits for the likes of EAGA).

The ECO is planned to be targeted to give grants to those in fuel poverty and with difficult to treat houses - such as insulation for solid walls.

As far as the supposed 22 Green Deal Providers are concerned all they have done is sign this document: http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/...eal--memorandum-of-understanding-provider.pdf

 

[SRE]

Ted, my understanding is that the free insulation that is being pushed again at the minute is the last of CERT and that when ECO comes in there won't be free cavity or loft insulation unless you're in the benefit/fuel poverty group. Is that right? Is there going to be significant grants for people in solid walls houses with oil/solid fuel/lpg heating?

I'm quite confused about how ECO and Green Deal will work together - I had assumed that the solid wall insulation grants through ECO would be more for social housing and any other type of housing (apart from fuel poor etc) would get their insulation through a loan with Green Deal. So free for the short term future but increased in price by October but with a loan available if you want it...

 

[TedM]

Yes, ECO will replace CERT/CESP. They currently cost about £1.8 billion a year and ECO will drop to £1.5 billion IIRC.

DECC haven't published the final details about ECO yet (as they haven't for any of GD) but this covers the broad scope - http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/...lp-where-it-is-needed-a-new-energy-compan.pdf

ECO will be available to 'top-up' the GD to address measures that cannot meet the 'Golden Rule' (where loan repayments are covered by bill savings) and this is expected to mainly apply to solid wall insulation. GD Providers are supposed to put this together automatically in some way.

 

[Earthstore]

Is the RHI not linked in with the Greendeal? as that has now been delayed (again) from 2012 to 2013.

 

[finchy]

I like the idea of the GD ! And potential to help improve the energy efficiency of a house.

However as I've said before and no one can answer is how do you value a house with a GD loan. And the implications with selling in a street where one neighbor has a GD and the other not. What stamp duty do they pay etc etc.

Have the DECC thought this through, mortgage companies, solicitors, estate agents, RICS know what to do ! (how do they value Solar with FIT income.....?)

The scheme would discriminate people who use their hard earned savings to pay for it ! As the street sold price would be depressed !

 

[sedgy34]

The GD scheme is with the property not the occupier

 

[Glen Powell]

The RHI domestic side has been delayed however I do beleive the commecial side is still rolling out, there is a lot of potential to the commecial aspect but it is a big monster to feed.

PV is not the primary objective of the GD as far as I understand it, insulation and heating mechanisms are first priority, however it would be a better Idea for the smaller companies to swim upriver rather than expecting food to come down river.

Get together with plumbers, insulation companies, etc, etc so you have in effect a one stop team, generate your own leads and take them to the top for the funding, this is the way I see it working in the end. I do not beleive many GD Customers are going to apply to tescos, B&Q, etc for the green deal.

 

[Eco Deal]

so the big question is will a small business be able to become a Green deal provider ?

 

[Megavolt]

so the big question is will a small business be able to become a Green deal provider ?

I believe yes but it will be a big investment

 

[Eco Deal]

hmm wont it just mean more acreditations to get at 500 600 a pop ?

 

[Eco Deal]

I believe yes but it will be a big investment

what is the cost likey to be ?

 

[Megavolt]

Sounds about right. It will be time to bend over again am sure

 

[Somecamel]

Sounds about right. It will be time to bend over again am sure

I'm still a bit sore from last time

 

[Earthstore]

From what I can make of it so far, the Green Deal is not worth bothering with, customers will be offered overpriced systems, with poor interest rates, mainly installed by sub contractors, but they can make the payments from the savings.. where is the benifit in that?

We could offer the customer a quality install, at a good price, with an ROI of say 10%, and get them to borrow the money at say 4%, so then they have the choice either use the 6% to repay the loan quicker, or see they annual outgoings for electricity go down by 6%.
These figures are only rough, but they are in the right area.

The government have cocked up anything to do with renewable energy so far, just making it all so complex, do you think the green deal will be any different?

 

[whinmoor]

From what I can make of it so far, the Green Deal is not worth bothering with, customers will be offered overpriced systems, with poor interest rates, mainly installed by sub contractors, but they can make the payments from the savings.. where is the benifit in that?

We could offer the customer a quality install, at a good price, with an ROI of say 10%, and get them to borrow the money at say 4%, so then they have the choice either use the 6% to repay the loan quicker, or see they annual outgoings for electricity go down by 6%.
These figures are only rough, but they are in the right area.

The government have cocked up anything to do with renewable energy so far, just making it all so complex, do you think the green deal will be any different?

Totally agree. It's a complete minefield which is bound to result in total confusion in the mind of the average householder. I think uptake will be very limited as most people will find it all too complicated. There will probably be opportunities for unscrupulous companies to make a quick buck by inflating prices and sending slick salesmen to tell the poor customer that it's actually free because they will be paying it back over a lengthy period through cheaper energy bills.

Yes, the government has proved itself to be pretty hopeless so far with energy policy. At least the original FiT scheme set up by Labour was understandable and workable. All they needed to do was reduce the FiT in line with falling component costs but they screwed it up by creating a bubble which burst and then panicked and ended up looking really stupid in court.

 

[jupestar]

interest rates will be higher than morgage rates.... and that i believe will kill it stone dead in the private sector.

I see this as an elaborate way in which councils can borrow money to install efficency upgrades from large companies who can also lend the money to them. there will be only one winner.

 

[Glen Powell]

what is the cost likey to be ?

20% a healthy balance sheet giving in excess of £50m to spend on investment, they use the word SME a bit too laxed in my opion as this borders on medium to large. I do believe it will change in the future, saying that I also believed it would be really cold this winter

 

[Glen Powell]

hmm wont it just mean more acreditations to get at 500 600 a pop ?

I do understand the costs are more than that but I did not read the details fully, each individual assessor must be DEA qualified on that side then to be a preffered supplier of one of the 22 technologies there is a cost, I did not look to see if one cost covers all or not as we generally discussed the pilot scheme and other aspects with STROMA at that time.

 

[finchy]

Our selling point is our qms Mcs experience, the average plumber/ tradesman don't want all that hassle! I'm Very interested in becoming a provider/assessor / installer...but would us chaps be able to!!

 

[sedgy34]

Off course you can but you will have to team up with a cavity company and maybe window company etc etc
To offer all services the green deal provides for

 

[Glen Powell]

All offering services must have QMS which I beleive has a bit more requirement than the MCS, so the green deal is not open to everyone as most do not want to go down the QMS route so it is simply an evolution from one to the other.

as Sedgy said you will need to link up with all technologies, how you would logistically fund this between all parties I am not sure as your return is over the working life of the products.

 

[SolarRoofSols]

Totally agree. It's a complete minefield which is bound to result in total confusion in the mind of the average householder. I think uptake will be very limited as most people will find it all too complicated. There will probably be opportunities for unscrupulous companies to make a quick buck by inflating prices and sending slick salesmen to tell the poor customer that it's actually free because they will be paying it back over a lengthy period through cheaper energy bills.

Yes, the government has proved itself to be pretty hopeless so far with energy policy. At least the original FiT scheme set up by Labour was understandable and workable. All they needed to do was reduce the FiT in line with falling component costs but they screwed it up by creating a bubble which burst and then panicked and ended up looking really stupid in court.

HIPS spring to mind - they didn't last 2 minutes and what did that leave us with...?...EPC's which most house buyers are not bothered about, their only use is to now make the pv market even more difficult for honest installers like us!

Until i have any confidence that the Green Deal will be here to stay, I can't afford more training/membership fees for something that could be dead 6 months later.

Rant over....for now!

 

[TedM]

The problem for installers is if the GD is able to finance PV installations. That could be a big market but would you want to be an accredited GD Installer or just a sub-contractor to one? Or a one-stop shop GD Advisor, Provider and Installer?

It's still not 100% clear that GD can finance PV (PV is on the draft list of approved GD technologies) but how that would interact with FiTs and the GD 'Golden Rule' is anything but clear or if the ECO grant would bar you from being eligible for FiTs. Nor is it clear how any conflict of interest between the 3 GD parties is going to be handled.

 

[JulianC]

I've yet to find anyone who isn't a training company or tofu munching eco-loon that thinks the Green Deal is a good idea. Certainly not any potential customers at least. The negatives far outweigh any positives as far as I can tell. I shall be keeping one eye on it, but, like others have said, I can't afford (and don't want) further training and fees.