Heating Wiring Course

[adamroche144]

I would like to get a bit more confident with the wiring of heating systems and what not, any one know
a course i can do or a decent guide book ??

 

[Octopus]

Honeywell do 1 day courses for £45.00

 

[telectrix]

and you can download the wiring diagrams from honeywell. customers are welll impressed when you fire that up on your android.

 

[adamroche144]

cheers fellas

 

[Octopus]

cheers fellas

At the bottom of each post is a "thanks" button - you can use that!

 

[Geordie Spark]

At the bottom of each post is a "thanks" button - you can use that!

Bloody hell ..................... it works too !!

 

[itdontgo]

What qualifications do you need to work on the electrical side of gas heating? Is gas safe enough?

 

[telectrix]

you should be either a qualified sparks, or polish.

 

[itdontgo]

you should be either a qualified sparks, or polish.

Haha. I'm no spark but I was paying someone who is Gas Safe to install heating timers for me. I think I need someone else.

 

[Jenifferd4u]

NAPIT provides Central Heating Control Systems (NA-CH-1). This is also one day course.

 

[chris murphy]

NAPIT provides Central Heating Control Systems (NA-CH-1). This is also one day course.

"Hello Jeniffer4u",

I know that You are NOT suggesting that this course would allow an Electrician to Work on a Boiler - but just in case someone inexperienced in Electrical Works misunderstands what You wrote:


That course or any other Electrical Qualification / or Course would NOT allow an Electrician to `Work On` the INTERNAL Electrics of a Gas Appliance - that is anything `Downstream` of the Boiler Electrical connection terminals - within the Boiler.

An Electrician can only wire up the Heating Controls and wire to the Boiler electrical terminals.

Although it might seem ridiculous to an Electrician even replacing Boiler Controls which are not connected directly to a Gas pipe such as a Boiler Thermostat MUST be done only by a Gas Safe registered Gas Engineer.

The first thing that a Gas Engineer would do when attending a Boiler Breakdown is to visually inspect the Boiler to see if it is correctly installed.

This requires specific knowledge of the Gas Regulations / Manufacturers Instructions etc. which most Electricians would not have.

Accessing some of the Controls / components often requires the removal of the Room Sealed Boiler Casing - obviously this MUST be refitted correctly and inspected for any sign that the Casing Seal has deteriorated which could cause the Boiler to spill products of Combustion into the Home / premises.

THAT alone cannot be done by anyone other than a Gas Safe registered Gas Engineer.

Also while diagnosing the Fault the Gas Engineer will know the operating sequence of the Boiler / Gas Appliance controls / components and although they will usually refer to the Electrical Controls Flow Chart and be Testing for electrical power etc. to the suspected Control / component it would be Illegal under the Gas Safety Regulations for anyone other than a Gas Safe registered Gas Engineer to do anything to a Boiler Control / component.

Doing anything to a Boiler Control such as a Gas Valve / Multifunctional Control Valve which is connected to the Gas Supply to the Boiler is the most obvious `Do not touch` item - BUT - ANY Boiler Control / Component is `Forbidden Territory` for all but Gas Safe registered Gas Engineers / Heating Engineers.



Something else that is worth mentioning is that even if they were informed that the `Heating system is full of water - Gas has been tested` etc. - it would be totally against the Gas Safety Regulations for an Electrician to wire up a Heating system which has never been operated before and then `Switch On` the Heating / Boiler to run the Heating system without it being Safely / Correctly `Commissioned` by the Heating Engineer / Registered Gas Engineer.

This is because although the Gas supply etc. to the Boiler should have already been Tested for `Gas Tightness` and available pressure at the Boiler - the Gas Engineer MUST carry out further Commissioning Tests etc. when the Boiler is fired up for the first time.


I mention this because I have known cases where exactly this HAS happened - the `Heating Engineer` has told the Electrician that the `Heating is ready to go` and has actually asked the Electrician to `Do Him a favour` and Turn On the Heating after wiring up the Controls` !


I am NOT trying to be a `Jobsworth` by posting these details / comments - rather I want Members who might be unsure of the Law regarding the Electrical Controls / Components or `Working` on a Boiler / Gas Appliance in general to be more aware of the Regulations / Legal requirements.


Regards,

Chris

 

[alanl]

Chris, i think you need to read the guidelines available on the Gassafe website, particularly this download:
http://---------------.co.uk/pdf/Who can legally work on a gas appliance.pdf

Which says: "If the work required only involves the replacement of a water carrying component e.g. a pump or central heating control valve, housed within the boiler’s decorative casing, the work could be undertaken by anothercompetent tradesperson e.g. plumber/electrician. Providing the work could be undertaken without having to break a combustion chamber seal"


I read that to include electrical components inside the boiler too, that do not invlove breaking any gas seals. There are a number of boilers (WB?) that have a sealed cover, so clearly they should not be worked on except by Gassafe, or competent DIYers, but for the majority of boilers, it is quite legal to change the electrical components without being GS registered.

 

[chris murphy]

Chris, i think you need to read the guidelines available on the Gassafe website, particularly this download:
http://---------------.co.uk/pdf/Who can legally work on a gas appliance.pdf

Which says: "If the work required only involves the replacement of a water carrying component e.g. a pump or central heating control valve, housed within the boiler’s decorative casing, the work could be undertaken by anothercompetent tradesperson e.g. plumber/electrician. Providing the work could be undertaken without having to break a combustion chamber seal"


I read that to include electrical components inside the boiler too, that do not invlove breaking any gas seals. There are a number of boilers (WB?) that have a sealed cover, so clearly they should not be worked on except by Gassafe, or competent DIYers, but for the majority of boilers, it is quite legal to change the electrical components without being GS registered.

"Hello alanl",


Thanks for your reply and the link to the Gas Safe Guidance Document.


What I wrote in my previous post is an example of Me NOT going into enough detail - which is very unusual for Me, I should have given examples of what Parts can be replaced without being Gas Safe registered - BUT there was a `Safety Motive` behind my not detailing those examples:


When that Gas Safe `Who can legally undertake work on a Gas Appliance` Guidance Document was released in 2011 - I as well as many other Gas Safe Engineers queried whether it should have been published because We felt that it would lead to some confusion between other Trades - Non Gas Safe Plumbers - Electricians etc.


Although it is clearly worded We felt that the `Word of Mouth` scenario where the `details` are spread from person to person and where perhaps MOST of the people did NOT actually read the Document would cause people to think that they could work on / replace ANY Electrical Control / Component - including those within a Room Sealed Boiler casing / Boiler Combustion chamber.


Gas Safe stated that they could see our point - but that `No-one should work on a Gas Appliance without knowing whether what they were doing was legally allowed / was covered by the Gas Safety Regulations`.


I don`t agree with that comment because IF the `rumour` spread - as it HAS - that You do NOT have to be Gas Safe Registered to replace / work on ANY Electrical Component within `a Boiler` - people WILL be doing this on Room Sealed Appliances / within Combustion chambers.


The scenario / confusion that I describe where SOME Electricians / `Plumbers` THINK that they can replace ANY Electrical Control / Component from anywhere within a Boiler - including on Room Sealed Boilers - has occurred frequently in even just MY experience over the last few Years - most of those people were not intent on doing so `Illegally` - they just thought that because an item was `Electrical` they could replace it - whatever type of Boiler it was on.



I know that an Electrician who knew the operating sequence of a Boiler would probably be able to identify which Electrical Control / Component had malfunctioned quicker than I could because of their experience in Electrical Testing.


I wrote my previous message only stating the facts about Components within Room Sealed Boilers / Boiler Combustion chambers because of the Dangers associated with those types of Boilers IF the Room Sealed design was compromised.

Changing a Pump or a Diverter Valve / Zone Valve in a Combi Boiler or a System Boiler where they are not within a Room Sealed casing IS `Work` that an Electrician or a Non Gas Safe Plumber could legally carry out.

BUT - I would still argue the point with Gas Safe that this also applies to for example a Boiler Thermostat - because I feel that ANYTHING that Controls the GAS / Firing of a Gas Appliance should NOT be able to be replaced by a Non Gas Safe Engineer.

I would also state that if I / a Gas Safe registered Engineer attended a Boiler to carry out a Repair etc. We would be looking to see that the Boiler was installed correctly BEFORE We carried out the `Work` / Repair - noting all of the relevant Safety / Installation requirements - Before putting the Appliance back into commission.

HOW is an Electrician or a Non Gas Safe registered Plumber going to be able to do this - ?


IF I were to put a Gas Appliance back into commission after `not noticing` a Dangerous situation / Installation defect I would probably be prosecuted for `leaving a Gas Appliance in an Unsafe condition` because I am a Registered Gas Engineer - where does that leave an Electrician / Non Gas Safe person who would probably NOT even know whether it was correctly / Safely Installed - ?


As I have written my previous Post without explaining the scenarios / examples of Parts on a Boiler which CAN be replaced by an Electrician / Non Gas Safe Plumber - I apologise to Members.


On matters which are as Important as this I will try to ensure in future that I either write more detail on the subject - Or provide a link to the pertinent details on a website.



Regards,

Chris

 

[Poshspark]

I would like to get a bit more confident with the wiring of heating systems and what not, any one know
a course i can do or a decent guide book ??

Hi have you ever taken an S-plan drawing and redrawn it in a straight line you will then see it is just a series of 1 way switches, when people look at a wiring centre it appears confusing. Try drawing it for your self it might save you taking a day off and paying for a course.

 

[stuartcourt]

I do heatings on a daily basis and learnt from my old boss a true master at it, since then I have been invited to a couple of courses honeywell was one and well worth it, you can never have too much knowledge

 

[Poshspark]

Stuartcourt
Where did you go for the Honeywell course? Are they held all over the country? Also I take it the course was worth the £45?

 

[SJD]

For locations, see: Honeywell United Kingdom Heating Controls

I did this couse about a year ago, found it well worth the money.

 

[chris murphy]

I would like to get a bit more confident with the wiring of heating systems and what not, any one know
a course i can do or a decent guide book ??

"Hello adamroche144",

Here is a link to what has been described by Electrical Tutors at my local College [where I go for my Gas ACS `Exams` Reassessments] as `the Best book on Domestic Heating Controls wiring` - this is on sale on the Corgi Direct website:


Domestic Central Heating Wiring Systems & Control - CORGIdirect available at CorgiDirect


I have not seen the Contents so I cannot state that I would personally endorse that statement - But I assume that the Electrical Tutors know what they are recommending to future Electricians.


I think that I remember a Heating Engineer who was attending the College with Me at the time stating that all He needed was the Honeywell Wiring Plan Diagrams - which are available to download over the Internet - and this is the way that I would look at it - We would obviously know all about how the Controls should be operating so that would help when understanding the Wiring Diagrams.


Although it is VAT exempt it costs just under £50.00 including Postage & Packing.


Regards,

Chris

 

[Spark1979]

Good post Chris, any electrician even thinking about changing parts ESP. The PCB in boilers should be very careful as this controls combustion rates etc and MUST be tested with a flue analyser, if anything goes wrong i dont know how they plead ignorance to nt knowing, also your point of being installed correctly is very important too!

 

[chris murphy]

Good post Chris, any electrician even thinking about changing parts ESP. The PCB in boilers should be very careful as this controls combustion rates etc and MUST be tested with a flue analyser, if anything goes wrong i dont know how they plead ignorance to nt knowing, also your point of being installed correctly is very important too!

"Hello Darrenburton",


Thanks very much for endorsing my points - and coming from a Professional Electrician your compliment is really appreciated.


"Thanks again".


Regards,

Chris