Help pricing

[Gringoking88]

Hi all,

I'm just starting out alone and want to do domestic only jobs, im initially going to focus on the smaller jobs as I also work full time elsewhere (the hope is I can eventually leave the "elsewhere") but still build up my profile and gain experience / confidence during my days off and holidays. Im finding it difficult if not impossible to know what to charge, do you guys / girls have a set price list you use or do you just calculate it based on an hourly rate, if hourly rate what is this averagely?

Im based in South West London and would really appreciate any help / advice you can offer.

Many thanks,

Martin

 

[gutterball]

work out how much it costs to run the business. Van, tools, insurances, scam membership, tax etc. work out how much you need to live off. add the 2 together and divide by 12. That's how much you need to earn each month.

 

[Octopus]

Your overheads per year will be about £6k plus buying a vehicle.

When you say you will be working else where is this as a spark? If not have got the relevant insurances in place?

 

[hightower]

Not sure that's helpful to the OP gutterball - he's just starting out and in a part-time scenario, he probably won't know how much tools, tax, memberships, books and so on are gonna cost? Ok, you might be able to predict to some degree (everyone needs BS7671, but does he need some of the guidance notes? Does he need an on-site guide? He might say no today and find tomorrow he needs them), but when everyone else was starting out how many times did they realise they didn't have the tools for a certain job and had to go invest in them? My uncle's been going 6 years and still finds (quite rarely I must add) the odd thing he doesn't have and has to go get it.

@OP: I would probably say to charge what you feel comfortable charging. If you are in a position (ie you said you work full-time elsewhere) maybe charge a little less than the going rate to try and build up your customer base. That way you'll get word of mouth customers too. I think you need the customer base first - 10 customers at a cheaper rate is better than 5 at the normal rate I reckon, at least in the early days. However, don't undercut too much as you will have running costs, and spending 2 hours at a job and coming away with a fiver after you've paid diesel, tax, and other things isn't really worthwhile.

I'm hoping to go through this myself in a year or two so will be interested to see what others say also. I currently do a little weekend work with my uncle, and try and use my pay from that to invest in tools that I will need in the future.

 

[Spoon]

OP: There are lots of threads on this, if you do a search on the forum. Some guys charge by the hour and some my the amount if items fitted.

 

[Gringoking88]

work out how much it costs to run the business. Van, tools, insurances, scam membership, tax etc. work out how much you need to live off. add the 2 together and divide by 12. That's how much you need to earn each month.

Hi Gutterball,

Thanks for this, I get the "P&L" bit of the business but if i price too high because the formula says i have to make x / pcm i wont get jobs and if i do too low there will be no point.

Im just looking for I guess a menu of jobs lol.

Thanks though

 

[Gringoking88]

Your overheads per year will be about £6k plus buying a vehicle.

When you say you will be working else where is this as a spark? If not have got the relevant insurances in place?

Hi Murdoch,

No my full time job is nothing to do with being a spark, im actually a deputy manager for a large supermarket chain, but wan to diversify and work for myself when i want etc, and not till 2230 finishes and 0700 starts. I am already NICEIC registered so yes I have all the necessary insurance etc.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Gringoking88]

Not sure that's helpful to the OP gutterball - he's just starting out and in a part-time scenario, he probably won't know how much tools, tax, memberships, books and so on are gonna cost? Ok, you might be able to predict to some degree (everyone needs BS7671, but does he need some of the guidance notes? Does he need an on-site guide? He might say no today and find tomorrow he needs them), but when everyone else was starting out how many times did they realise they didn't have the tools for a certain job and had to go invest in them? My uncle's been going 6 years and still finds (quite rarely I must add) the odd thing he doesn't have and has to go get it.

@OP: I would probably say to charge what you feel comfortable charging. If you are in a position (ie you said you work full-time elsewhere) maybe charge a little less than the going rate to try and build up your customer base. That way you'll get word of mouth customers too. I think you need the customer base first - 10 customers at a cheaper rate is better than 5 at the normal rate I reckon, at least in the early days. However, don't undercut too much as you will have running costs, and spending 2 hours at a job and coming away with a fiver after you've paid diesel, tax, and other things isn't really worthwhile.

I'm hoping to go through this myself in a year or two so will be interested to see what others say also. I currently do a little weekend work with my uncle, and try and use my pay from that to invest in tools that I will need in the future.

Hi Hightower,

Thanks for the reply.

I have done my domestic installers course, 17th edition, and building regs exam so have the books already as well as GN3, in terms of tools etc I have a basic set and also a fluke 1653b and am already registered with NICEIC.

I agree completely about charging a bit less to get the customer base but am struggling with "what less is" im also conscious I will probably be a bit slower than more experienced sparks so dont think it fair to price per hour.

Out of curiosity where are you based hightower?

Thanks,

Martin

 

[hightower]

Durham, NE England, so the rates I could tell you probably won't add up

 

[Spoon]

Durham, NE England, so the rates I could tell you probably won't add up

Every time someone mentions Durham I keep thinking of Roger Whittaker and Old Durham Town.... I blame my dad..

 

[hightower]

Every time someone mentions Durham I keep thinking of Roger Whittaker and Old Durham Town.... I blame my dad..

I'm 31 mate - I have no idea what you've just said

 

[telectrix]

@ OP/ take a look at the which guide for various electrical jobs.

Electricians: how much should you pay? - Which? Local

 

[Octopus]

I always wonder about how people actually organise themselves when they have 1 full time job and want to do a job like sparking part time? A Sunday job goes off the rail and you have to work Monday - Friday - do you leave the client in the lurch for 5 days?

I also wonder about how many people actually want work done at the weekends only too? Most of my customers don't!

 

[hightower]

I also wonder about how many people actually want work done at the weekends only too? Most of my customers don't!

Deleted as duplicate below. Sorry.

 

[hightower]

I also wonder about how many people actually want work done at the weekends only too? Most of my customers don't!

Dunno, if I had the option I'd take a weekend service every time as working Mon-Fri means I wouldn't have to take time off to get a job done. And as for something going wrong, I'd be in a position to take holidays or unpaid time off in order to get it done, much like how a full-time spark would rearrange his diary if needed.

 

[Spoon]

Does anyone charge extra for weekends?

 

[Octopus]

Does anyone charge extra for weekends?

Yes...

 

[Spoon]

Yes...

we are still talking about electrical work now.....

 

[Octopus]

we are still talking about electrical work now.....

What else!

For what its worth I am working this Saturday morning, for my weekday rate but its to suit me and the customer

 

[hightower]

What else!

For what its worth I am working this Saturday morning, for my weekday rate but its to suit me and the customer

Slightly contradictory to your earlier post lol :rofl:

 

[Octopus]

Slightly contradictory to your earlier post lol :rofl:

Absolutely - but yes its to suit me, and hence why I offered!

 

[hightower]

Absolutely - but yes its to suit me, and hence why I offered!

Yep, but working weekends part-time suits the likes of me and the OP. Don't think there's a right or wrong way to do it to be fair, so long as it suits the worker and the customer

 

[Octopus]

Yep, but working weekends part-time suits the likes of me and the OP. Don't think there's a right or wrong way to do it to be fair, so long as it suits the worker and the customer

What do you do monday to friday?

 

[hightower]

What do you do monday to friday?

IT buddy, brilliant job in terms of pay and perks, but my word it is SOUL DESTROYING!

 

[HandySparks]

... do you guys / girls have a set price list you use or do you just calculate it based on an hourly rate, if hourly rate what is this averagely?

I think that sorting out your standard hourly rate is the key. After that, you can then price particular jobs, whether estimating price and materials or a fixed price quote.

I don't think that a set price list really works. For example 'install new socket' can vary from a quick job adding a socket adjacent to an existing one in a plasterboard stud wall to a long job chasing in metres of cable and cutting a backbox into hard brick and then making good.

Your hourly rate will be a compromise between what you'd like to earn and what the local market will stand. Try and find out what other local sparks are charging (do any publish their rate?). I've recently been told by a customer (local accountant) that my current rate is on the low side, so I'll consider putting it up next year. In fact, she said that if my hourly rate (published on my website) was much lower, she'd be suspicious that I was 'too cheap' and therefore not likely to be any good! So pricing too low may be counter-productive. However, you do need to know your stuff and be acceptably quick.

For fault-finding and small repairs, you also need to carry a reasonable selection of materials on your van, so that you're not forever disappearing off to buy small items, which makes you look very inefficient.

 

[hightower]

A couple of lads I know work off an hourly rate on smaller jobs, and once 5 hours is reached it changes to a day rate (so for example, £30 an hour, capping at £150 for the day). Larger jobs like consumer units have prices that are set (excluding any unforeseen work), and rewires are a whole different kettle of fish altogether.

 

[tomspark93]

As far as I'm concerned if you can't earn enough Monday to Friday doing a typical 8 hour day the. It's not worth doing. Obviously occasionally you have to work a bit late but my old boss would happily work till 7 in an evening and on weekends. Worst of all he would drag me around with him hence why I left.

 

[markadams]

Martin,

I am interested in what your experience is in electrical work? If you are very knowledgeable/experienced then you should be charging a bit more. Otherwise are you sure you have the right knowledge/experience?

Mark

 

[Hellmooth]

Does anyone charge extra for weekends?

I don't charge extra for weekend work, unless it has been asked for by the customer, I have usually priced a job anyway so if it needs to go onto the weekend it is still the same, and half the time I work the weekend to allow my schedule for the following week to be followed!

 

[JM ELECTRICAL]

The best way to find out what to charge is to phone all the companies in your area pretending to be a customer n ask the how much do they charge per hour or ask for a rough estimate of specific jobs, thats what i done then once i had all the rates i just went with the average

 

[Leesparkykent]

Im not bothered what others charge. I know what my over heads are and how much I want to earn a day.

 

[JM ELECTRICAL]

Im not bothered what others charge. I know what my over heads are and how much I want to earn a day.

thats fair enough but if your struggling to decide what to charge or don't know where to start that is the best way to get a rough idea then go from there

 

[Octopus]

thats fair enough but if your struggling to decide what to charge or don't know where to start that is the best way to get a rough idea then go from there

Er no. You need to work out how much you want/need to earn after business expenses each day (and remember you need to earn enough for your tax and NI too). You could be surrounded by very busy poor fools!

 

[newtothis]

Pricing is as simple or complex as you want to make it.
Simple is Cost plus % profit you require.

The massive upside of that is you’ll never operate at a loss, provided you have the work.

The possible downsides of the above.

1) It doesn’t take the market into consideration.
I don’t understand know why you wouldn’t carry out some kind of competitor analysis in your initial market research, while not putting down those who don’t.

2) It doesn’t take the stage the business is at into consideration.
Eg start up. growth, maturity, or externals like whether you’re operating in a saturated market.

There is no ‘one method fits all’ approach.
You can’t compare a business that has to raise prices to control demand.
With a start up, eh ??

Question: from a customer perspective, why wouldn’t you seek out the business you perceive to have the lowest overheads, with the best customer services ?

 

[muzza1]

I always wonder about how people actually organise themselves when they have 1 full time job and want to do a job like sparking part time? A Sunday job goes off the rail and you have to work Monday - Friday - do you leave the client in the lurch for 5 days?

I also wonder about how many people actually want work done at the weekends only too? Most of my customers don't!

A manager (full time) at a supermarket registered with the niceic, not sure about that....