How can they justify the increase in your electricity bill !?

[JD6400]

Just had a email from E-on to say my yearly bill is going up £81 from £103 - £184.
Now this has got me wondering how they can justify this ---

Firstly it is for a spare feeder pillar in a field that uses 0 kWh per year , so the increase from 19p to 29p per kWh should not effect the end bill.
Added to that , even if It was using power , they make a big song and dance about only supplying 100% renewable , so how does the cost of oil suddenly make this more expensive to produce !???

Then the standing charge has near on doubled from 28p per day to 50p per day . Again how does the cost of oil , effect the cost of twisting a couple of cables together ?
Me thinks someone is taking the pish

 

[Rockingit]

Same here (and for all of us, eventually!). The aspect which gets me is the standing charge - the energy useage itself I can stomach(ish) as that makes sense but our standing charge has also doubled to over 50p a day. And of course....it will never drop back down again. And so the shareholders get richer, the exchequor makes another (.52 x 365 @5%) £8 x say 20 million homes = £1.6B in VAT.....

 

[JD6400]

Like you say ,the energy cost I can actually understand , even though it is 100% renewable.
As we are all in it together. (ish)
But the standing charge is nothing but theft in my opinion that will not come back down again !

For several years now I have started turning a blind eye to the bent meters we come across , as the supply authorities waist so much money on the infrastructure and seem to just make up costs for new connections.

If I was that way inclined I would actually encourage bent meters from now on !

 

[pc1966]

Started with the "dash for gas" and now we import far more than we produce, and Vlad has or balls in the vice. Gas is still very much the means of filling in big gaps in renewables (subsidised) and the declining base supply as older coal and nuclear plants are decommissioned without any sensibly planned replacements. Here is it in a nice little infographic:

Dash for Gas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[timhoward]

It can be interesting to look at the live data that is available:

Electricity Data Summary | BMRS

Also National Grid: Live Status - https://grid.iamkate.com/ which is faster to load!

 

[timhoward]

My personal opinion - time to tax energy companies to divert profits to shareholders into a pot to build the nuclear plant we should have started 20 years ago and pretty obviously need.....

 

[Zerax]

The rise in standing charges will probably be justified by the energy companies covering their "losses" from the period where wholesale energy costs increased but the energy price cap was still in place.

And by losses they mean profits lower than expected.

Totally agree...

The ridiculous price cap that Carrie Symmonds introduced was just crazy... the result of it is that we now have far less competition in the market and the guys that are left in the game have massive losses to recoup !

Margins in the retail energy market are very thin... so they will be actually losses.

 

[littlespark]

The standing charge should pay for the improvements in the infrastructure that we will need once everyone goes EV.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Windfall tax nonsense! all that will do is increase the Government coffers and allow the MP's and Civil Servants to give themselves another pay rise, it will make no difference to the consumer, only by capping the price of energy will the consumer benefit.

 

[7029 dave]

Yup was told my tariff price is going up from 19p to 27p per KWh, the increase dont apply until July as fixed in till then.
Looked around some providers are charging 35p per KWh

 

[Mike Johnson]

Welcome to the brave new world of electric everything. Once these price's go up they never go down no matter what produce's the energy.

 

[Dustydazzler]

My standing charge (BG) for electric will go up from 16p per day when my fixed rate ends to 41 pence per day Gas will go up from 23p per day to 27 per day

Current KWH gas 3.1 , rising to 7.3 & electric 18 , rising to 29.4 pence

That is some serious increases when my fix deal ends this April

My very rough calculations , if my consumption remains similar my annual dual fuel bill will rise by about a grand a year

 

[Zerax]

...only by capping the price of energy will the consumer benefit.

No !!!! That's a massive part of the problem that we have right now !!!

We need to scrap all these silly government interventions and somehow reinstate all those companies that were bankrupted by the energy price cap... to allow more competition ! The free market is the way to go. State intervention in pricing causes all sorts of problems and issues... as is demonstrated right now.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The free market eventually drives price's up, it's OK for a while when they compete with each other, but eventually they combine and away we go with price's going up as they form a .................

 

[OnlQQker]

All I'm trying to design now is a lightening storage/harnessing device that I can then sell the electricity for free!

Till that point I'm now candlemaking!

 

[Zerax]

The free market eventually drives price's up, it's OK for a while when they compete with each other, but eventually they combine and away we go with price's going up as they form a .................

But that isn't what we had with the energy suppliers... we had a myriad of smaller companies offering very good rates for many years... it's only the insane neo-socialist government intervention of 'price capping' that forced them out of the market. Now we have a handful of massive companies, who can easily control the market. Massive government mistake because they pandered rather than told the general public the facts of life.

I think for some customers, it was costing the supplier something like 3x the price they were charging... that is simply unsustainable and wrong.

 

[Diddy]

Added to that , even if It was using power , they make a big song and dance about only supplying 100% renewable ,

Renewables price was subsidised by those who used fossil fuels. Now it is the other way round. End of the day it is a case of all in it together. Where have I heard that before ?

 

[nicebutdim]

Started with the "dash for gas" and now we import far more than we produce, and Vlad has or balls in the vice. Gas is still very much the means of filling in big gaps in renewables (subsidised) and the declining base supply as older coal and nuclear plants are decommissioned without any sensibly planned replacements. Here is it in a nice little infographic:

Dash for Gas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's worth pointing out that, while mainland Europe obtains around 40% of its gas supply from Russia, the UK relies on Russia for approximately 3% of its gas.

Of course those countries that can no longer buy from Russia will drive up prices as the seek to secure alternative sources of supply. I'll keep my thoughts to myself about the recent trend of price increases for all forms of energy.

 

[Mike Johnson]

But that isn't what w we had a myriad of smaller companies offering very good rates for many years...

I don't know how where you get your information, but where do you thing these myriad of smaller companies go there supplies from? They did not have an independent source.

 

[nicebutdim]

I don't know how where you get your information, but where do you thing these myriad of smaller companies go there supplies from? They did not have an independent source.

They bought on the wholesale market, added a margin, and sold to consumers.

Like any commercial enterprise they saw an opportunity to make a profit and perhaps were happy to make lower margins than some other companies. What they were unlikely to have factored into their forecasts was the unexpected development of price capping. I'm not sure why you think price capping is a great idea as it doesn't benefit those who are frugal with their energy use and certainly doesn't encourage energy efficiency. Imagine you're the sort of person who is minded to run gas heating full pelt, 24 hours a day, while leaving windows open on the coldest nights in winter as the house is unbearably hot - a family across the road do exactly that and I guess they see no reason not to, if their gas supplier are unable to charge more than a certain amount.

Edit: In case it isn't apparant, I'll make the point that you pay to heat homes just like the one across the road from me.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Wow hold on there, lots of assumptions with no substance I know its late but have you really had that much to drink.

So lets hear how you would reduce the costs to the consumer?

 

[brianmoooore]

@nicebutdim I think you're misinterpreting how the price cap works. It's not an absolute limit on your bill - It's the maximum that a defined 'average' user will pay. Use more than that average and you'll pay more.
If it was an absolute cap, I'd be more than happy with it, even at the rate it's likely to be in a few months time.

 

[nicebutdim]

@nicebutdim I think you're misinterpreting how the price cap works. It's not an absolute limit on your bill - It's the maximum that a defined 'average' user will pay. Use more than that average and you'll pay more.
If it was an absolute cap, I'd be more than happy with it, even at the rate it's likely to be in a few months time.

It seems my knowledge is lacking and I'd laboured under the misapprehension that it was an absolute limit.

I see that it applies only to standing charges and unit prices on default tariffs. When prices rise, energy companies must absorb those increases - sounds like a great way to bankrupt energy companies and reduce options for consumers,

 

[Mike Johnson]

It seems my knowledge is lacking and I'd laboured under the misapprehension that it was an absolute limit.

I see that it applies only to standing charges and unit prices on default tariffs. When prices rise, energy companies must absorb those increases - sounds like a great way to bankrupt energy companies and reduce options for consumers,

Then what is your solution to the increasing cost of energy consumption without increasing inflation?

 

[brianmoooore]

It was conceived as a way to keep a lid on the profits of the 'legacy' suppliers, who relied on the loyalty and ignorance of existing customers to be able to rip them off.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I think we all know what it is supposed to do, as I already said back in post 10, what it will achieve is just a top up to the Government coffers, it will make no difference to the consumer, the windfall is the Government's.

 

[Zerax]

I don't know how where you get your information, but where do you thing these myriad of smaller companies go there supplies from? They did not have an independent source.

The difference between small companies (that have nearly all gone now thanks the crazy price capping) and the big boys is "contribution towards overheads and profit" That's the accounting term for what's left over after all the direct costs. So... a well organised and efficient company should be able to minimise the overheads. That's where the difference comes from. Overheads such as billing, customer services and bad debt can be huge !! So have online billing only, one-hit CS and happy customers and you've saved a packet !!

 

[Zerax]

I'm always amazed at the number of homes that I go into that are heated to what I would call 'tropical' temperatures... and this is in spite of the recent energy price increases !

 

[brianmoooore]

I'm always amazed at the number of homes that I go into that are heated to what I would call 'tropical' temperatures... and this is in spite of the recent energy price increases !

My youngest daughter was home for a month just after Christmas, staying in one of my holiday cottages while she was 'between flats' in Exeter, where she lives.
Found every thermostat in the place turned up to max when she left. No wonder she always complained about the cold when she came into our house.

 

[Vortigern]

Bit of context here; My bill has gone from 131 p.m. to 266 p.m. for the last two months. In the same letter I am told that as of April costs are likely to rise a further 75% (ish?) Meaning I will be paying not far from 500 p.m. i.e. 6k per year. Over the last few years that means my usual bill of 3k per year is doubling, at least (Gulp!!) With four kids in the house the future is looking a bit bleak. FYI as I am retired I get 80 p.w. pension although I have worked all my life, don't ask! I know people who have never worked and/or been in prison half their life who get the full whack. Food costs are increasing, penury here I come!

 

[Diddy]

Some replies on this thread make me think that some people are missing their £50 referral fee for those "little" energy providers.
As for prices and what to do ? How do the rest of the world manage ? How about France our nearest neighbour ? 4% increase is it not ? Do they have lots of small energy providers ?
The market will sort it. That is just too funny, Them market has never been known to sort anything indefinitely as it always comes down to other factors. It's all good for most of us as we earn above averages wages (If you don't you need to have a stern word in your own ear) - But then we are a car crash away from destitution and then things like government intervention on prices or even nationalised energy (shudder) would be on all our want list.

 

[pc1966]

It's worth pointing out that, while mainland Europe obtains around 40% of its gas supply from Russia, the UK relies on Russia for approximately 3% of its gas.

Of course those countries that can no longer buy from Russia will drive up prices as the seek to secure alternative sources of supply. I'll keep my thoughts to myself about the recent trend of price increases for all forms of energy.

Yes, the issue is the UK uses a significant amount of gas both for home/business heating and for power, not that is specifically gets it from Russia, so the EU/international pricing aspect from Russia's latest actions hits us as well.

 

[Rockingit]

We're not dual fuel as heating is oil which is a mixed blessing as at least I get some say over when to top up the tank (2500L max!) except the barrel price is so high at the moment that heating oil is over 78p/L too. I'll be needing to order a top-up soon as we're getting low but can probably get away with the minimum order of 500L which will carry through to the summer (mostly just heating a tank of water a day) when hopefully things may have come down. Also, using a proper smart thermostat (Nest in our case) is paying for itself times over at the moment. Set to an eco friendly 19.5c whilst we're home and auto senses when we go out/travelling home via geo-fencing and internal sensors. Having said that, the wood pile has taken a hammering the last few weeks as the log burner is doing the work instead when we're all in of an evening and in the lounge.

Interestingly, we use very little electricity for what is fundamentally quite a large house but again, I spanked the wholesaler accounts a while back and changed every single lamp in the place to identical LED (all Osram and identical colour temps, it's a thing of beauty on the eyes) so predominantly it's just all the I.T. kind of stuff that's on or on standby 24/7. We're with Bulb and they sent the notice the other week that we're going from £111 to £125 as whilst the units have all gone up they're finally convinced that our useage after a year with them is consistently low.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I need a bigger heating allowance and so does my wife.

 

[brianmoooore]

78p for oil? Getting quotes of £1.10!

 

[Zerax]

How about France our nearest neighbour ? 4% increase is it not ?

That 4% figure was used by the media to make a political point. As I understand it, the pricing of energy in France is very different... I think you can choose between 'regulated' prices or market prices for starters. (Mike Johnson will probably know more) Because of this, energy in France has been alot more expensive than in the UK for a long time... So that 4% figure is not comparing apples with apples. Similarly the price of a baguette in France is government regulated.

Always question what you read in the press...

 

[Mike Johnson]

78p for oil? Getting quotes of £1.10!

Oil price this morning from the oil club is £1.007lt.

Electricity in France is a mine field, there are four tariffs, but always found the electricity to be slightly cheaper than in the UK, France has quite a few nuclear power stations which is the way we will have to go to keep up with demand, unless we want to cover the UK in solar panels and wind turbines, perish the thought.

 

[Diddy]

That 4% figure was used by the media to make a political point. As I understand it, the pricing of energy in France is very different... I think you can choose between 'regulated' prices or market prices for starters. (Mike Johnson will probably know more) Because of this, energy in France has been alot more expensive than in the UK for a long time... So that 4% figure is not comparing apples with apples. Similarly the price of a baguette in France is government regulated.

Always question what you read in the press...

What's political about the facts ? Electricity in France is cheaper now and has been for decades lol. They are state owned. Like you say always question what you read and hear even if it is what you want to hear just to confirm a preconception.

 

[7029 dave]

Makes me wonder if nationalization of the energy sector would be better, because we just cant keep taking these price rise's.

 

[Diddy]

Makes me wonder if nationalization of the energy sector would be better, because we just cant keep taking these price rise's.

Nah you don't want that mate, It's not as if any other country successfully uses state controlled energy and critical infrastructure. Much better in the hands of foreign governments. I mean what could possibly go wrong getting a French company in to build a nuclear power station on British soil lol, At one point we were inviting the Chinese on board too.
BTW this is a issue not confined to one party nor government. We are where we are due to many governments failure to plan for more than 5 years.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Makes me wonder if nationalization of the energy sector would be better, because we just cant keep taking these price rise's.

The only problem with that is the probable rise of the Unions inside the sector and the ransom of the consumers, and around we go again.

 

[nicebutdim]

It was conceived as a way to keep a lid on the profits of the 'legacy' suppliers, who relied on the loyalty and ignorance of existing customers to be able to rip them off.

With the unintended consequence of reducing choice for consumers and leaving many in the position of being unable to move to better tariffs.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I have never been able to fathom how its a good idea for us to sell off our utility companies to foreign countries, it just seems to be accountancy gone mad, Cable and Wireless sold off their UK corporate HQ in the UK in the City and then leased it back, that just has to be an accountancy work around budgets.

 

[Mike Johnson]

With the unintended consequence of reducing choice for consumers and leaving many in the position of being unable to move to better tariffs.

But with state controlled tariffs the consumer would not have too move to get a better deal, the Electricity supplier being a non profit making organisation not having to satisfy its share holders the cost would be held down.

 

[nicebutdim]

But with state controlled tariffs the consumer would not have too move to get a better deal, with the Electricity supplier being a non profit making business having to satisfy its share holders the cost would be held down.

Weren't price caps a form of state controlled tariffs?

The issue with non-profit making businesses/organisations is that they can still hoover up vast amounts of money in the process of not making any profit. It's a model which many social media grifters have latched onto, so they can sell overpriced tat while paying themselves significant sums and pressing particular agendas, while doing so on a 'not for profit' basis.

It's easy for us all to provide answers to life's many challenges, but not so easy to predict loopholes that'll be exploited by those inclined to do so.

 

[Diddy]

It's a model which many social media grifters have latched onto

And most other countries on the planet. IF someone is going to try and rip off the consumer then imho it is usually the for profit mob.
Apart from that the other thing is simply national security. We should never let foreign owned companies Especially ones who are state controlled anywhere near our critical infrastructure. Energy/Communications and water should be totally off limits. In my opinion those are the main 3 sectors that are of national security levels of importance. You can then make a case for rail...I mean we subsidise the private operators on the lines far more than we ever did as a percentage of gdp when it was state run.
But like I said these issues are the short sightedness of governments from about the 70's onwards. Also swampy didn't help much.

 

[nicebutdim]

And most other countries on the planet. IF someone is going to try and rip off the consumer then imho it is usually the for profit mob.
Apart from that the other thing is simply national security. We should never let foreign owned companies Especially ones who are state controlled anywhere near our critical infrastructure. Energy/Communications and water should be totally off limits. In my opinion those are the main 3 sectors that are of national security levels of importance. You can then make a case for rail...I mean we subsidise the private operators on the lines far more than we ever did as a percentage of gdp when it was state run.
But like I said these issues are the short sightedness of governments from about the 70's onwards. Also swampy didn't help much.

I'd expect a significant majority of people to agree on that point.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The point about the utility companies sell off was made back on post 44.

And our Gold reserves!!!!!!! an idiot in parliament thought it was a good idea to sell them off, smacked of a private deal being made behind our backs then and still does now.

 

[Mike Johnson]

And most other countries on the planet. IF someone is going to try and rip off the consumer then imho it is usually the for profit mob.

As evident now.

 

[Rockingit]

78p for oil? Getting quotes of £1.10!

That was ex-vat six days ago - just checked now and it's gone up to 96p ex VAT