Identify this head unit

[leebut]

Hi guys


Came to do the testing on small bathroom lighting job today and I was confronted with this old piece of scrap iron.

I’ve never come across one of these before, so I’m asking you guys for confirmation of what I think what it is I’m looking for the type and BS number and amperage, so I can fill out my certificate, my thoughts are it’s a Bs 3036 semi enclosed rewire able fuses and guessing the fuse wire has been upgraded in the past from 30 amp to probably 60 amp.

I’ve already told my customer that they need to contact Electricity North West to have the head unit replaced as soon as possible for two reasons, the Bitumen has tracked back into the head and the live fuse is fully enclosed in the bitumen at the bottom and cannot be removed and the second reason it’s a fused neutral supply that’s no longer allowed be installed.

Cheers


Lee

 

[Marvo]

The bitumen wouldn't be my first worry. Beware asbestos flash guard pads.
Also if there's a fuse in the neutral it should be removed and a blank inserted although this would probably be a job for the DNO.....
Finally I wouldn't mess that incoming cable or the earth wire that's attached even if it does require upgrading. That type of cable is usually fine until it's disturbed, at which point all bets are off.

 

[Dustydazzler]

One of those new smart cut out ?

 

[leebut]

The bitumen wouldn't be my first worry. Beware asbestos flash guard pads.
Also if there's a fuse in the neutral it should be removed and a blank inserted although this would probably be a job for the DNO.....
Finally I wouldn't mess that incoming cable or the earth wire that's attached even if it does require upgrading. That type of cable is usually fine until it's disturbed, at which point all bets are off.

I’ve already told the customer to get in touch with the DNO I’ve no intensional of touching anything in the head unit I just need to finish my certificate so I can register the installation, there was no seal on the front of the head unit I only opened it up to see what the Bs number was

 

[Pete999]

Hi guys


Came to do the testing on small bathroom lighting job today and I was confronted with this old piece of scrap iron.

I’ve never come across one of these before, so I’m asking you guys for confirmation of what I think what it is I’m looking for the type and BS number and amperage, so I can fill out my certificate, my thoughts are it’s a Bs 3036 semi enclosed rewire able fuses and guessing the fuse wire has been upgraded in the past from 30 amp to probably 60 amp.

I’ve already told my customer that they need to contact Electricity North West to have the head unit replaced as soon as possible for two reasons, the Bitumen has tracked back into the head and the live fuse is fully enclosed in the bitumen at the bottom and cannot be removed and the second reason it’s a fused neutral supply that’s no longer allowed be installed.

View attachment 50335View attachment 50336View attachment 50337
Cheers


Lee

Wrong forum Mate if you specialise in Bathrooms!

 

[leebut]

One of those new smart cut out ?

I’ve got a gut feeling it’s not as new as you think!!

 

[leebut]

Wrong forum Mate if you specialise in Bathrooms!

Retrained in 2004 now qualified spark as well as my original plumbing background.

Fully qualified with city and Guilds for 16th, 17th and 18th edition of wiring regs as well as city and Guilds qualified for Electric Vehicle charging installations.

I was only installing lighting and a fan on this bathroom bud

 

[Pete999]

Retrained in 2004 now qualified spark as well as my original plumbing background.

Fully qualified with city and Guilds for 16th, 17th and 18th edition of wiring regs as well as city and Guilds qualified for Electric Vehicle charging installations.

I was only installing lighting and a fan on this bathroom bud

Wow

 

[leebut]

Wow

I’m only after a simple answer to valid question, we all come across things we’ve not seen before, if your bothered about my background in electrical work check my Napit page out (3862) how long I’ve been a member with them since 2004, I don’t get what the problem is??

 

[Pete999]

I’m only after a simple answer to valid question, we all come across things we’ve not seen before, if your bothered about my background in electrical work check my Napit page out (3862) how long I’ve been a member with them since 2004, I don’t get what the problem is??

No problem Mate, you said you are a bathroom specialist, or more to the point your profile does, and I thought you are a Plumber, never questioned your electrical quals, just surprised that's all, you're the one getting all wound up.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Came to do the testing on small bathroom lighting job today and I was confronted with this old piece of scrap iron.

that my friend is one thing you should not play with ,considering you where testing a small bathroom light .the question why did you open it .

 

[leebut]

No problem Mate, you said you are a bathroom specialist, or more to the point your profile does, and I thought you are a Plumber, never questioned your electrical quals, just surprised that's all, you're the one getting all wound up.

Hi Pete
I don’t go and check people’s profiles out when I reply to people’s questions, I just answer the question if I can, I filled my profile in numerous years ago, I will this evening change my profile to a more appropriate profile, things have changed in a big way regarding my work, mainly electrical work now, but every so often I do have a dabble in the bathroom work for previous customers


I jumped on the defensive regarding my electrical background because I’ve had people slag me off in the past because people think your below them because I’ve come into a second trade etc

 

[leebut]

that my friend is one thing you should not play with ,considering you where testing a small bathroom light .the question why did you open it .

I opened it because there was no seal on the head unit and no marking on the outside to give me an idea of what the Bs number was

I’ve done nothing illegal, my iCertifi certificate software asks for the Overcurrent Protective Device BS number, type and rating, someone previously has installed a 17th edition split load board in 2012 the house owners have just bought the property and have no paperwork for the installation.


I took a look inside and to be honest I’ve done my customer a favour as the fused neutral head unit needs replacing as previously mentioned in my original post

 

[westward10]

You shouldn't really have opened it the service head protective device should be noted as NV on your Certificate. I have no idea why people need to know this info.

 

[leebut]

You shouldn't really have opened it the service head protective device should be noted as NV on your Certificate. I have no idea why people need to know this info.

Then why is it a question on the certificate then??

 

[westward10]

It isn't always the case it would be a DNO fuse. What do you normally quote for a sealed head.

 

[leebut]

It isn't always the case it would be a DNO fuse. What do you normally quote for a sealed head.

If the seal has been cut previously by another person I take a look

If it’s sealed it stays sealed and “unknown” is recorded on certificate, I have been question to why I haven’t noted the info on my assessments in the past


If it’s a modern head unit that says 100amp on the side or has Bs1361 on it I record that, or if I know what is normally in the cut out from previous installs I put record an educated guess??

So the same question back at you what do you record on all your certificates you can’t leave them blank on every one,


I posted a picture of a head unit that was similar to this one a couple of months back where the bitumen has seeped out of the old head, when the DNO had been to replace the head with a new unit they didn’t actually put a seal on the fuse, that might have been because the customer had told them I was going to be fitting a new consumer unit a week later and I’d asked the customer to get the DNO to install an isolator switch which they told the customer they don’t do

 

[DPG]

To be fair, if it didn't have a seal then I would have had a little peak. Wouldn't touch though.

 

[westward10]

You can't be guessing or noting what the carrier has written on it. Without physically seeing it you must state NV. If anyone queries this tell them the head is not part of your remit to be interfering with. To be honest this info is generally irrelevant.

 

[leebut]

To be fair, if it didn't have a seal then I would have had a little peak. Wouldn't touch though.

I didn’t touch it, as soon as I opened it I saw the asbestos flash mat and the label looked suspiciously like asbestos too took a photo and closed it back up.


I knew straight away it needed replacing because of the fused neutral supply and the bitumen encasing the lower part of the fuse carrier.

I am amazed the guy who did the board change back in 2012 didn’t notify the DNO to get it updated

 

[leebut]

You can't be guessing or noting what the carrier has written on it. Without physically seeing it you must state NV. If anyone queries this tell them the head is not part of your remit to be interfering with. To be honest this info is generally irrelevant.

Fair enough I’ll just put NV from now on, if I get questioned again on my assessment I’ll explain why I’ve noted on the certificate as NV

 

[Charlie_]

He maybe did notify the dno but because of the daft setup with suppliers chopping and changing things get overlooked..
Also meter readers should be observing and reporting substandard kit..
Any paperwork from the consumer unit change?

 

[ruston]

Maybe he did and they didn't . Is there previous certification?

 

[leebut]

He maybe did notify the dno but because of the daft setup with suppliers chopping and changing things get overlooked..
Also meter readers should be observing and reporting substandard kit..
Any paperwork from the consumer unit change?

Customer didn’t have anything the other day when I asked but was getting onto their solicitor to check why no paperwork was available on purchasing the house

 

[buzzlightyear]

I didn’t touch it, as soon as I opened it

well judge the bullet fire out of the gun but I did not pull the trigger .

 

[leebut]

well judge the bullet fire out of the gun but I did not pull the trigger .

Sounds like a 10cc song lyrics

 

[leebut]

All these comments about me opening the panel and still no one has actually confirmed my suspicions of what the BS number is and what the rating could be

 

[Des 56]

Customer didn’t have anything the other day when I asked but was getting onto their solicitor to check why no paperwork was available on purchasing the house

I think solicitors check whether here has been a Part P notification
If there has been a notified job they then request the certification
If no job has been notified no cert request because its a unknown

Part P seems to be irrelevant except when there has been a notification made,no notification no problems are encountered

 

[Charlie_]

Bs3036
Could be any size fuse wire that fits

 

[leebut]

Bs3036
Could be any size fuse wire that fits

Cheers for confirmation I thought it would be the 3036 but wasn’t sure that covered the incoming cut out as well as a old Wylex board it says in the lid 30 amp but possibly upgraded years back with either a 4” nail or a 60 amp piece of wire

 

[Charlie_]

Does your dno have notice forms for such things so you can arrange for it to be upgraded?

 

[leebut]

Does your dno have notice forms for such things so you can arrange for it to be upgraded?

I’ve informed my customer to notify them and arrange the upgrade I’ve now finished on the job, and I’ve noted my recommendations on my certificate to cover my arse

 

[Charlie_]

In this situation I email or phone the dno and submit a form to request upgrade..
I am in a lucky position though as over here in the iom we only have 1 dno and I’m on 1st name terms with all their staff who have a great rapport with the electrical trade..

 

[Lucien Nunes]

You'll probably want to record it as BS3036 but it actually pre-dates that standard by a few decades. I would generally not recommend opening CI cutouts. If anything is loose or broken inside, there is a much higher risk of short-circuiting the incoming service compared with all-insulated units, with resulting nasty arc flash. The supply impedances are often lower now than when they were installed (this one could be 90 years old) so their designers were not anticipating the kind of fireball that can occur today when blowing a 315A substation fuse.

That said, if anyone comes across disconnected / redundant ones, I need them for the collection.

 

[leebut]

In this situation I email or phone the dno and submit a form to request upgrade..
I am in a lucky position though as over here in the iom we only have 1 dno and I’m on 1st name terms with all their staff who have a great rapport with the electrical trade..

Wish it was as simple over here bud I asked if the DNO could put an isolator switch in a couple of months back they said we don’t do that, so my response was how do I perform safe isolation then, they said we’ll get back to you, still waiting!!

You'll probably want to record it as BS3036 but it actually pre-dates that standard by a few decades. I would generally not recommend opening CI cutouts. If anything is loose or broken inside, there is a much higher risk of short-circuiting the incoming service compared with all-insulated units, with resulting nasty arc flash.

That said, if anyone comes across disconnected / redundant ones, I need them for the collection.

cheers for the info

 

[Deleted member 72666]

BS 3036 with asbestos tube for the fuse wire.

 

[Baddegg]

In this situation I email or phone the dno and submit a form to request upgrade..
I am in a lucky position though as over here in the iom we only have 1 dno and I’m on 1st name terms with all their staff who have a great rapport with the electrical trade..

Rung em last week over here for a main fuse upgrade and got told can’t talk talk to you need the homeowner, I had to write the homeowner a script as she had no idea what to say to them

 

[richy3333]

Just mark it down as 'obsolete' else Not verified or not known. Mark the certificate as it needs sorting by customer and DNO. Get paid and walk away.

 

[leebut]

Rung em last week over here for a main fuse upgrade and got told can’t talk talk to you need the homeowner, I had to write the homeowner a script as she had no idea what to say to them

Exactly the problem I had a few weeks ago so I told customer what to say to get it changed ASAP

 

[Charlie_]

Total opposite over here..
Customer only signs the form to pay the bill, we do everything else, saves so much hassle..

 

[Charlie_]

Test cert for dno with every job that needs their involvement

 

[The Ghost]

This happened to me a few months ago neutral fuse. I contacted the DNO immediately and advised the Landlord to shut off the power with a danger notice. The DNO told me to switch off the installation until they arrived. They came within an hour. I never knew what then transpired as the Landlord did not want to pay me to wait for them...

 

[ruston]

BS 3036 with asbestos tube for the fuse wire.

I hope you have got a sick note! Where have you been .
Nice to see you back.

 

[leebut]

Test cert for dno with every job that needs their involvement

Why can’t they all be the same, what’s the rules over there for pulling a fuse to do a board change??

Napit have been trying to get the DNO to agree to let registered sparks pull and temporarily resell a cut out for what seems like years now

 

[Charlie_]

Why can’t they all be the same, what’s the rules over there for pulling a fuse to do a board change??

Napit have been trying to get the DNO to agree to let registered sparks pull and temporarily resell a cut out for what seems like years now

We can’t pull the fuses, I’ve only ever done it a handful of times and that was for real emergencies to avoid disaster.

Our island is only 36 miles x 12 so doesn’t take long for them to attend site..
Trouble with sparks pulling fuses and re-tagging is that it is open to abuse

 

[leebut]

We can’t pull the fuses, I’ve only ever done it a handful of times and that was for real emergencies to avoid disaster.

Our island is only 36 miles x 12 so doesn’t take long for them to attend site..
Trouble with sparks pulling fuses and re-tagging is that it is open to abuse

Can’t see the problem with a registered spark being able to pull a cut out and re sealing using a registered numbered vinyl label similar to what some of the DNO use now, basically a registered installer gets an amount of numbered labels assigned to him and has to send a DNO notification with that seal number on it after the works carried out.

It makes sense for safe isolation of a supply which is in the safety at work act!!

 

[telectrix]

just pull it and be damned. life's too short to wait around sitting on our arses waiting for red tape .

 

[Charlie_]

In a perfect world it makes sense but there are too many rogues out there who could potentially use it to get free electricity..

It’s just too much hassle for them to put a system in place to allow us to pull fuses..
As far as they are concerned, apart from extreme circumstances there is no need for us to pull fuses..
If say we do a board change and you don’t want to do the tails live then we can arrange for them to pull fuse prior to works commencing

 

[Lucien Nunes]

This happened to me a few months ago neutral fuse. I contacted the DNO immediately and advised the Landlord to shut off the power with a danger notice.

Was it dangerous in ways other than having a fuse in the neutral? If that was the main concern, I would not consider it worthy of isolating the system. The presence of a fuse in the neutral as well as the line is only a latent hazard, if someone does not perform safe isolation when the system appears dead due to the neutral fuse having blown, which itself is very unlikely. It is a world away from having fuses in the neutral instead of the line in which case there is no earth-fault protection.

 

[Bobster]

There may already be a solid link installed in the neutral leg.