In your country, do you use pipe to run wire through very much?

[joesparky]

can you bend pipe?

 

[ferg]

We do things a little differently to you and use different materials but the short answer is yes.
Slightly longer answer is that we use very little conduit / pipe in domestic installations but it's very common in commercial and industrial sectors.

 

[Pete999]

can you bend pipe?

What sort of Pipe?

 

[Megawatt]

can you bend pipe?

Joe it’s not that hard to bend pipe and I’ve install pipe from 1/2 inch to 3 inch galvanized conduit. You just need a bender and know the formulas. If you truly want to be an electrician you will have to learn to bend saddles, 90 degrees, 45 degrees and 30 degrees offsets. Practice makes perfect.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Plumbers use pipe

electricians use conduit

 

[pc1966]

Americans use EMT

 

[telectrix]

Plumbers use pipe

electricians use conduit

or tube.? ?

we tend to use trunking for the multiple cables, dropping down in conduit for each accessory. i understand that Americans tend to use multiple runs of conduit.

 

[Dustydazzler]

or tube.? ?

my dad used to call it tube

pipes for smoking , tubes for wiring

 

[telectrix]

good hardwood pipes are for smoking. bent pipes are a wet-pants problem.

 

[Megawatt]

Plumbers use pipe

electricians use conduit

Really I didn’t know that
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Americans use EMT

Not always Mainly in industrial applications @pc1966
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or tube.? ?

we tend to use trunking for the multiple cables, dropping down in conduit for each accessory. i understand that Americans tend to use multiple runs of conduit.

@telectrix If we are installing a parallel run of conduit like 3000 amps yes we run multiple conduits unless the customer wants tray cable

 

[Mark Wright]

American conduit bending seems a science looking at UGLYs guide etc with pythagoras theorem and shrinkage.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-MyPy0LaAuo

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?index=380&list=FLEiDDbbB42SxOwTi3M7D_KA&v=mRtKWp2YJ5Q

 

[joesparky]

omg the arrogance of my trade, I swear. never ONCE did I say i didnt know how to bend pipe. I was asking people IN OTHER COUNTRIES how common is it.

Second... its not "conduit" its PIPE. if you commonly call emt, "conduit" instead of Pipe, thats your problem. we are in different parts of the planet and people use different terminology. however, 'conduit' can include PVC or MC
when you say "can you bend pipe" everyone knows what that is

 

[DPG]

omg the arrogance of my trade, I swear. never ONCE did I say i didnt know how to bend pipe. I was asking people IN OTHER COUNTRIES how common is it.

Second... its not "conduit" its PIPE. if you commonly call emt, "conduit" instead of Pipe, thats your problem. we are in different parts of the planet and people use different terminology. however, 'conduit' can include PVC or MC
when you say "can you bend pipe" everyone knows what that is

I don't think people are being arrogant on here. Perhaps if you made it clearer what you were saying/asking/wanting to know, rather than just putting 'can you bend pipe?' and leaving it at that.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Joe sparky yes your terminology is very much different , I do find the American / North American/ Canadian way of doing things quite interesting...

conduit , pipe , tube ITS all the same thing

probably the biggest noticeable differences that I have seen is you use a foot bender we use a vice bender and you use screw couplers we use threaded couplers...

 

[BLBelfast]

In Northern Ireland and I think Southern Ireland in domestic we use PVC pipe. Into every box. Never ever used capping etc. No idea why but the rest of the UK seem to not have to use it. Anyone know the reason?

 

[Megawatt]

omg the arrogance of my trade, I swear. never ONCE did I say i didnt know how to bend pipe. I was asking people IN OTHER COUNTRIES how common is it.

Second... its not "conduit" its PIPE. if you commonly call emt, "conduit" instead of Pipe, thats your problem. we are in different parts of the planet and people use different terminology. however, 'conduit' can include PVC or MC
when you say "can you bend pipe" everyone knows what that is

Welcome to the forum joesparky

 

[pc1966]

Welcome.
I think some of this was intended as humor but did not work out as funny.
Incidentally I looked up a bit more on the USA stuff after @Megawatt comment and found this stuff, fantastic:

Color EMT and Conduit | Wheatland Tube

Color EMT and rigid conduit make it easy to identify critical circuits without spray painting or taping. It’s comes in 8 vivid colors.

www.wheatland.com

 

[Megawatt]

Welcome.
I think some of this was intended as humor but did not work out as funny.
Incidentally I looked up a bit more on the USA stuff after @Megawatt comment and found this stuff, fantastic:

Color EMT and Conduit | Wheatland Tube

Color EMT and rigid conduit make it easy to identify critical circuits without spray painting or taping. It’s comes in 8 vivid colors.

www.wheatland.com

@pc1966 you just taught me something new. I didn’t know that they even made different colors of conduit.

 

[telectrix]

In Northern Ireland and I think Southern Ireland in domestic we use PVC pipe. Into every box. Never ever used capping etc. No idea why but the rest of the UK seem to not have to use it. Anyone know the reason?

1 of the reasons is DEPTH. capping or oval tube can be buried plaster depth. 20mm round conduit requires chasing into brick.

 

[BLBelfast]

1 of the reasons is DEPTH. capping or oval tube can be buried plaster depth. 20mm round conduit requires chasing into brick.

Yes but why ?

Why do we make it harder for ourselves and ensure every single track etc is conduited. I've been asked and have asked it of other Northern Irish sparks for years and no one knows. Just that if you attempted to not use it here you would be laughed off site

 

[nicebutdim]

1 of the reasons is DEPTH. capping or oval tube can be buried plaster depth. 20mm round conduit requires chasing into brick.

Homes here aren't constructed from potato.
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Yes but why ?

Why do we make it harder for ourselves and ensure every single track etc is conduited. I've been asked and have asked it of other Northern Irish sparks for years and no one knows. Just that if you attempted to not use it here you would be laughed off site

How many times have you been able to pull a new cable through old conduit that's been in a wall for decades?

Surely that small amount of additional work at the outset makes life much easier for all concerned?

 

[pc1966]

Homes here aren't constructed from potato.

Eh?

How many times have you been able to pull a new cable through old conduit that's been in a wall for decades?

Surely that small amount of additional work at the outset makes life much easier for all concerned?

Yes, good to have forward plans that make future additions or maintenance easier.

Also the steel conduit provides additional safety in case someone drills the wall - not against a serious effort to penetrate, but at least it safely shorts out without needed RCD protection.

 

[nicebutdim]

Eh?


Yes, good to have forward plans that make future additions or maintenance easier.

Also the steel conduit provides additional safety in case someone drills the wall - not against a serious effort to penetrate, but at least it safely shorts out without needed RCD protection.

In domestic situations I've only seen PVC conduit used. Others will be better placed to explain why it is used in every installation, but I always thought the basics were to protect the cable from trowels and also make future repairs or additions more straightforward.

My experience is minimal, but I've replaced cables by pulling through 30 or 40 year old oval conduit and was extremely grateful for it being there.

 

[telectrix]

Homes here aren't constructed from potato.

nor are they here. new builds are generally costructed from weetabix and cardboard, with an outside skin of real brick to support the roof, make them look pretty, and to cover up the bodged construction.

 

[nicebutdim]

Homes here aren't constructed from potato.

nor are they here. new builds are generally costructed from weetabix and cardboard, with an outside skin of real brick to support the roof, make them look pretty, and to cover up the bodged construction.

You get the point I'm making - for the most part those conduits have to be chased, but think how much easier your life would be if this was the case in every home you were called to.

 

[joesparky]

I don't think people are being arrogant on here. Perhaps if you made it clearer what you were saying/asking/wanting to know, rather than just putting 'can you bend pipe?' and leaving it at that.

are you able to read? what does my question say? please cut and paste it. Did I ask "can you bend pipe?" let me know what you find.
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In domestic situations I've only seen PVC conduit used. Others will be better placed to explain why it is used in every installation, but I always thought the basics were to protect the cable from trowels and also make future repairs or additions more straightforward.

My experience is minimal, but I've replaced cables by pulling through 30 or 40 year old oval conduit and was extremely grateful for it being there.

WOW!! I'd never heard of oval conduit before you said it. I just googled that. Interesting!
this is why I asked so as to generate people's common products that might not be used here much at all.

in oval conduit, is it just one romex wire? or can you pull multiple wires for that?

I saw a box made for it, with oval knock outs. very interesting

 

[DPG]

are you able to read? what does my question say? please cut and paste it. Did I ask "can you bend pipe?" let me know what you find.
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WOW!! I'd never heard of oval conduit before you said it. I just googled that. Interesting!
this is why I asked so as to generate people's common products that might not be used here much at all.

in oval conduit, is it just one romex wire? or can you pull multiple wires for that?

I saw a box made for it, with oval knock outs. very interesting

Post number 1, your original one, literally says 'can you bend pipe?'

 

[nicebutdim]

WOW!! I'd never heard of oval conduit before you said it. I just googled that. Interesting!
this is why I asked so as to generate people's common products that might not be used here much at all.

in oval conduit, is it just one romex wire? or can you pull multiple wires for that?

I saw a box made for it, with oval knock outs. very interesting

Round conduit is more commonly used here these days and bushed into boxes, but some local electricians would be better able to comment.

The installation I mentioned, which used oval conduit, is 30-40 years old and the conduit was squeezed at its end to fit through round holes. Not perfect, but good enough for me to pull a new cable through and certainly simpler than opening up a wall. Like all conduit/pipe, it is available in different sizes.

 

[Dustydazzler]

are you able to read? what does my question say? please cut and paste it. Did I ask "can you bend pipe?" let me know what you find.
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WOW!! I'd never heard of oval conduit before you said it. I just googled that. Interesting!
this is why I asked so as to generate people's common products that might not be used here much at all.

in oval conduit, is it just one romex wire? or can you pull multiple wires for that?

I saw a box made for it, with oval knock outs. very interesting

plastic oval conduit is pretty much only used on rewires to protect romex style pvc flat cable when it is recessed into a solid wall.
it is never used for surface wiring and generally can’t be bent or formed.

 

[westward10]

are you able to read? what does my question say? please cut and paste it. Did I ask "can you bend pipe?" let me know what you find.
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WOW!! I'd never heard of oval conduit before you said it. I just googled that. Interesting!
this is why I asked so as to generate people's common products that might not be used here much at all.

in oval conduit, is it just one romex wire? or can you pull multiple wires for that?

I saw a box made for it, with oval knock outs. very interesting

The title of this thread maybe clear but your opening post clearly states "can you bend pipe". There seems to be a lot of attitude on this forum of late.

 

[Dustydazzler]

The title of this thread maybe clear but your opening post clearly states "can you bend pipe". There seems to be a lot of attitude on this forum of late.

This forum is tame compared to a sporting forum that I belong to , there are regular users on that forum who hurl abuse over even the slightest disagreement...

 

[pc1966]

The (approximate) UK equivalent to USA romex is our "twin and earth" (T&E) cable.

In the typical UK case the CPC (earth/ground wire) is uninsulated within the overall cable's sheath, however, it the CPC should be sleeved in green/yellow at the ends where it connects to the sockets, etc. Also here the CPC is a size or two below the line/neutral conductors (e.g. 2.5mm^2 L&N conductors with 1.5mm^2 CPC).

The reduced CPC size, along with its unsheathed construction, makes the cable overall smaller and easier to install, also cheaper. However, we have quite a strong requirement on the design side here in the UK to make sure the over-current protection disconnects fast enough not only to prevent the CPC overheating, but also to avoid prolonged exposure to high touch voltages during fault clearance.
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In mainland UK most domestic work is in T&E and conduit is not so common. Many decades ago singles in metal conduit was used routinely for domestic and you will sometimes find T&E pulled through old conduit when rewired (instead of the singles that would be the norm in industrial style conduit installations).

 

[BLBelfast]

Just for clarity. Nearly every single domestic property in Northern Ireland is wired in twin and earth and piped in 20mm PVC conduit down the chases using adaptors and metal flush boxes. Obviously a stud wall, which is becoming more and more common, it is just pushed down and a grommet is used to enter the box.

I've also always been told its to protect the cable from Trowell etc. Just no idea why we do that here and the mainland UK can use capping ?

 

[telectrix]

Just for clarity. Nearly every single domestic property in Northern Ireland is wired in twin and earth and piped in 20mm PVC conduit down the chases using adaptors and metal flush boxes. Obviously a stud wall, which is becoming more and more common, it is just pushed down and a grommet is used to enter the box.

I've also always been told its to protect the cable from Trowell etc. Just no idea why we do that here and the mainland UK can use capping ?

the main advantage, apart from mechanical protection, is ease of rewiring , as and when needed, either due to age, or due to a drilled cable. saves chasing the walls out again. the reason the UK uses capping is to cut costs. quote for conduit at an extra £££s on the job over here, and you'll lose the job through price. new builds are thrown up as cheap as possible (e.g. dry lined , studded walls etc.).

 

[Pete999]

Just for clarity. Nearly every single domestic property in Northern Ireland is wired in twin and earth and piped in 20mm PVC conduit down the chases using adaptors and metal flush boxes. Obviously a stud wall, which is becoming more and more common, it is just pushed down and a grommet is used to enter the box.

I've also always been told its to protect the cable from Trowell etc. Just no idea why we do that here and the mainland UK can use capping ?

When I was House bashing, we used Split METAL oval conduit rubber grommets at both ends, and CRAMPETS to hold conduit in the chases. Happy days.

 

[BLBelfast]

Its a race to the bottom here aswell price wise though and no one would cap a cable into the wall. Don't get me wrong I feel it's the proper way of doing it just find it strange that we have adopted a different method.

Worked in Australia and they grinded a slot down the wall and poked the cable in with their screwdriver ffs

 

[Pete999]

Its a race to the bottom here aswell price wise though and no one would cap a cable into the wall. Don't get me wrong I feel it's the proper way of doing it just find it strange that we have adopted a different method.

Worked in Australia and they grinded a slot down the wall and poked the cable in with their screwdriver ffs

Its a race to the bottom here aswell price wise though and no one would cap a cable into the wall. Don't get me wrong I feel it's the proper way of doing it just find it strange that we have adopted a different method.

Worked in Australia and they grinded a slot down the wall and poked the cable in with their screwdriver ffs

Well that is where the criminal element ended up wasn't it?

 

[James]

can you bend pipe?

Absolutely, I have a hosepipe that i bend every time i wash the car.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Absolutely, I have a hosepipe that i bend every time i wash the car.

be careful not to put a kink in it

 

[norcal]

This is a photo off the web of home being built in the Chicago area, Chicago, & a number of it's suburbs only allow EMT when wiring homes, no flexible wiring methods like NM cable, AKA "Romex®", MC, Metal Clad cable, or AC, Armored Cable. The claim is that it is a result of the Chicago fire, but is more likely make work rules forced by unions.

Note: the salmon colored plastic pipe is for fire sprinklers, required in new homes now.

 

[Dustydazzler]

If new builds in the U.K. were required to be wired using galvanise conduit the price of wiring a new build house would sky rocket...
probably double if not triple the per unit price to wire them...
the only real advantage To using conduit in a house would be in 60 years time when it comes to rewiring them would be a piece of cake...

 

[telectrix]

If new builds in the U.K. were required to be wired using galvanise conduit the price of wiring a new build house would sky rocket...
probably double if not triple the per unit price to wire them...
the only real advantage To using conduit in a house would be in 60 years time when it comes to rewiring them would be a piece of cake...

yes but UK regs. for new builds are slap it in any old how, cover it up, next job. and that's everything, not just electrics.

 

[Dustydazzler]

yes but UK regs. for new builds are slap it in any old how, cover it up, next job. and that's everything, not just electrics.

rough as a badgers in most cases, I know a sparks / plumber Handyman guy who does Some work for one of the big developers and his work rough as ----.
he can lash in cable and polypipe so badly it would make you cry.
i foolishly got him to do some plumbing for me last year and all the joints leaked the day after he left... utter shambles

 

[pc1966]

This is a photo off the web of home being built in the Chicago area, Chicago, & a number of it's suburbs only allow EMT when wiring homes, no flexible wiring methods like NM cable, AKA "Romex®", MC, Metal Clad cable, or AC, Armored Cable. The claim is that it is a result of the Chicago fire, but is more likely make work rules forced by unions.

That is a nice looking building going up!

I can kind of see the point, EMT is pretty flame containing and it makes inspection easy (EMT yes/no?, not Hmm, is this cable of one of the approved types for this circuit?) but it also looks like a bit of a power-grab by the union, and other cables are quite safe when used appropriately. Still, hopefully least to higher standards than often seen in new builds.

The other think is how often is it fixed wiring that is at fault? I would expect it is the appliances and their flex that cause most fires.

Also another odd difference that I heard from @Megawatt is that USA generally has its GFCI/AFCI at the outlets, where as in the UK/Europe it is normal to have them at the breaker board so they protect the fixed wiring from faults (or limit the risk to DIYers drilling walls for a new shelf) as well as attached equipment.

 

[freddo]

This is a photo off the web of home being built in the Chicago area

I like that. I'm sure If EMT was available here we would use conduit more. The screwed steel we have here is a bit 'heavy duty' for regular use. I did install some more 25 and 32mm galv today, yes I measured out all the bends.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I like that. I'm sure If EMT was available here we would use conduit more. The screwed steel we have here is a bit 'heavy duty' for regular use. I did install some more 25 and 32mm galv today, yes I measured out all the bends.

I tend to agree , if we had a lighter gauge steel conduit which could be easily bent with a hand bender and Used grub screw couplers (No more threading) then way more jobs would be done in conduit

 

[Mike Johnson]

I tend to agree , if we had a lighter gauge steel conduit which could be easily bent with a hand bender and Used grub screw couplers (No more threading) then way more jobs would be done in conduit

Sounds like a business opportunity there, unfortunately in this rush rush world it would certainly slow the job down and would end up like all good ideas.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Sounds like a business opportunity there, unfortunately in this rush rush world it would certainly slow the job down and would end up like all good ideas.

i would certainly try to use it where possible, but as you say it will still be slower than throwing in T&e.
probably why Micc isn’t used as much These days , it takes time to prepare the ends which just adds to the labour costs.
in amErica & Canada they also use a lot of MC cable (looks a bit like a shower hose) but we don’t seem to use that either and I’m not sure why we don’t...

 

[Mike Johnson]

I don't know about cable, but flexible steel conduit is available: LOflex 20mm Galvanised Flexible Steel Conduit - 10Mtr - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LFLS20slash10.html

 

[Dustydazzler]

MC is all prewired and available in various sizes , it’s in effect their version of swa,.
its a lot quicker to install than swa thou , you simply strip off the outer sheath using a special tool and it terminates into a box with a simple push in gland like we do with kopex...
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Brief video on using mc / ac prewired flex conduit

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8517_Yg7xs4