Labour Leadership

[sean_ork]

The Saudis are the head of the snake.

Yep, and Turkey is the tail - they are as bad as each other. And those who could actually do something are just feathering their nest.

Philip Hammond accepts £2,000 watch from Saudi sheikh, despite ban on donating expensive gifts | UK Politics | News | The Independent

 

[Deleted member 26818]

My understanding, is that Hereford has been relocated, and is now even closer to Bristol and Birmingham?
Well closer to Birmingham at least.
As for Corbyn's stance on air strikes, it's simply down to whether they will achieve anything, or just be a waste of our money.

 

[sean_ork]

Whatever happens the arms dealers and manufacturers will be happy

 

[Midwest]

Interesting debate. I have never been a Labour Party supporter. However, I feel I must agree with JC & some of his MP's, that the UK's now decided bombing of Daesh, will not have a huge impact, compared to that of our Allies. And we should consider alternatives. However, there are times when your head tells one thing and your heart tells you another.

I listened to some of the debate in the HoC, before our MP's voted. I have to say I was swayed by both sides of the argument. Ultimately, I think we must do something, not leased that the 'Security Council unanimously calls on member nations to fight Daesh', and France asks the UK to join the fight, and we can't give Daesh the oxygen of our reservation to fight them and support our Allies.

I think Hilary Benn's speech gave a good reasoning to support our Allies; Hilary Benn speech in full: 'We must now confront this evil' ? video | Politics | The Guardian

'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing' Edmund Burke.

PS Hilary Benn for Labour Party Leader. :iagree:

 

[Englishman]

But, wars are proven opportunities for some to make their fortunes - Maggie dug herself out of a massive hole of unpopularity by going to war, so perhaps there's reasons why this poisonous snake wasn't for rid of years ago.

So what are you saying? That she, instead of defending sovereign UK territory, that had been invaded by a foreign army, purely went to war to increase her popularity?

 

[sean_ork]

So what are you saying? That she, instead of defending sovereign UK territory, that had been invaded by a foreign army, purely went to war to increase her popularity?

No .....

 

[derek]

So what are you saying? That she, instead of defending sovereign UK territory, that had been invaded by a foreign army, purely went to war to increase her popularity?

Some say she deliberately pulled HMS Endurance (against advice from the military) from the Falkland Islands knowing that the Argentinians would invade to distract their own population from the economic troubles their country was in, thereby forcing us into a war with Argentina which would boost her standing in the UK. Whether that is true I can't say.

 

[YoungScud]

Interesting debate. I have never been a Labour Party supporter. However, I feel I must agree with JC & some of his MP's, that the UK's now decided bombing of Daesh, will not have a huge impact, compared to that of our Allies. And we should consider alternatives. However, there are times when your head tells one thing and your heart tells you another.

I listened to some of the debate in the HoC, before our MP's voted. I have to say I was swayed by both sides of the argument. Ultimately, I think we must do something, not leased that the 'Security Council unanimously calls on member nations to fight Daesh', and France asks the UK to join the fight, and we can't give Daesh the oxygen of our reservation to fight them and support our Allies.

I think Hilary Benn's speech gave a good reasoning to support our Allies; Hilary Benn speech in full: 'We must now confront this evil' ? video | Politics | The Guardian

'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing' Edmund Burke.

PS Hilary Benn for Labour Party Leader. :iagree:

Using Burke's quote is entirely disingenuous. Worse, it's not even germane to the arguments being made. I haven't heard one single opponent of this madness suggest that we do nothing. Lots of alternatives have been mooted, so don't even try to suggest they haven't. As for Benn's speech, it was nothing more than political grandstanding, and designed to out-manoeuvre Corbyn in the Labour power struggle between a party and its ruling elite.

 

[Guest77]

Nuke em :earmuffs:

 

[telectrix]

Nuke em :earmuffs:

too humane.

 

[Midwest]

Using Burke's quote is entirely disingenuous. Worse, it's not even germane to the arguments being made. I haven't heard one single opponent of this madness suggest that we do nothing. Lots of alternatives have been mooted, so don't even try to suggest they haven't. As for Benn's speech, it was nothing more than political grandstanding, and designed to out-manoeuvre Corbyn in the Labour power struggle between a party and its ruling elite.

There are many persons attributed to that quote (or words to that effect), not just EB. I used his name to ensure people didn't think it was my words :laugh3:

What do you mean by disingenuous (I've looked at the definition), perhaps you could expand? And I think it has got every relevance to the debate. Perhaps you could list the 'Lots of alternatives'; 'starving of food, stop them selling oil, stop their internet access', seem to remember another fascist tried starving us 75 years ago, it didn't work then, and won't work now. If we bomb their refineries, they won't have any to sell. Can't quite see that blocking access to the internet will work, might stop working out how to make bombs, but it won't stop them communicating.

I wouldn't disagree that bombing is just the answer, but it has haltered Daesh momentum in Iraqi.

As I said, I'm not a Labour Party supporter, but I do think it was a good speech. Have you listened to it? The 'Anti' speeches were no less reflective, but the debate that I watched, swayed me to think that the best decision had been made; only time will tell if the right decision has been made.

 

[telectrix]

you lot. along with both the government and the opposition have failed to see the obvious solution which is simple.




SEND IN SUSAN BOYLE..

 

[Midwest]

:bulb2:

 

[YoungScud]

There are many persons attributed to that quote (or words to that effect), not just EB. I used his name to ensure people didn't think it was my words :laugh3:

What do you mean by disingenuous (I've looked at the definition), perhaps you could expand? And I think it has got every relevance to the debate. Perhaps you could list the 'Lots of alternatives'; 'starving of food, stop them selling oil, stop their internet access', seem to remember another fascist tried starving us 75 years ago, it didn't work then, and won't work now. If we bomb their refineries, they won't have any to sell. Can't quite see that blocking access to the internet will work, might stop working out how to make bombs, but it won't stop them communicating.

I wouldn't disagree that bombing is just the answer, but it has haltered Daesh momentum in Iraqi.

As I said, I'm not a Labour Party supporter, but I do think it was a good speech. Have you listened to it? The 'Anti' speeches were no less reflective, but the debate that I watched, swayed me to think that the best decision had been made; only time will tell if the right decision has been made.

It's disingenyous because, as I said, nobody is seriously suggesting doing nothing. The reasoning behind the bombing has nothing to do with taking on and defeating Deash and everything to do with world image. Right wingers, nationalists everywhere, love the diea that their country is considered as great, strong, decisive, to be feared. Cameron, Benn and their cronies speak directly to this ideal. Britain HAS to be seen as a world leader, as a worthy successor to Empire. What emerges external to these shores (and to those of us who, time and again have heard this kind of flag-waving guff before) is a faintly ridiculous, post-Imperial stamping of the feet.

Want to know what you apparently can't find out for yourself? Well, here it is. Unpopular as it may seem, it's clear from history that we, the US and a few others can't abide the idea of not being involved. I don't think we need to pretend that our poltical masters aren't beholden to the military/industrial complex. Weapons, oil, gas and other products make vast swathes of money. Oil particualrly services fossil fuel energy solutions which are ultimately unsustainable. Put some real effort into renewable energy and we reduce, perhaps even end, our reliance on oil. With that comes a realisation that out involvement in the Middle East is all about oil. It's got nothing to do with despotic regimes or terror. Cameron, having failed to convince Parliament to bomb a dictator, has now managed to persuade them instead to bomb that dictator's enemies. I mean, as long as we're bombing someone, we're at least seen to be doing something, right? Since it's pretty clear that our involvement in the Middle East is what puts us on the hit list for every nut job emanating from that region, not being involved might help us to join Iceland and Tuvalu and all the other nations who aren't. It's a nice thought, if unlikely.

Now, to more practical solutions, all of them being suggested by opponents of the present madness. How about, instead of sucking up to countries like Saudi Arabia, a country which funds and supports Daesh, along with spreading its foul ideology through Sunni mosques around the world, we, I don't know, maybe refuse to deal with them. Oh I know, British Aeropsace and others will lose orders, but think of the bribe money they'll save. While we're at it, istead of supporting Turkey's appalling human rights abuses, we issue an ultimatum. They start acting like human beings, or they get slung out of the club. This is probably idealistic, but if that doesn't happen, we could always leave the club ourselves. This would bring total NATO personnel from a bit over 7,000,000 to a tad under, so no great loss really, and we'd save on subscriptions, not to mention not being obliged to pour obscene amounts of money into an non-independent 'independent' nuclear folly. It's a funny thing, that. Nine UN nations have nuclear wepaons, which means 284 don't, and a few of them have managed to avoid war for the most part. Maybe then we could afford the NHS we deserve and stop the dumbing-down so beloved of the right.

We could work much harder to stop the marginalistaion of immigrant populations, which, by every economic measure, provide us a net benefit. I'm not thinking solely of the Muslim population, but it's that one which needs the most work at the moment. Radicalisation is clearly a problem and it needs to be addressed. Perceptions need to be changed if we are to halt the tide of impressionable youth from joining radical organisations such as Daesh. We have to stop obsessing about foreign immigrants 'assimilating' into Britsih culture. I wish I knew what 'British culture' is, by the way. Morris Dancing? Highland Dancing? Stricly Come Dancing? Instead, we need to embrace the idea that there is room for diversity. In fact, it's what makes any society vibrant and interesting. That way, immigrant populations can feel they are accepted without losing their identity.

Next, we need to stop reacting to every attack with the idea that we can somehow engage these morons in a straight, face-to-face fight. We can't and we know it. What we do know is that they carry out attacks to provoke a certain rweaction and we never disappoint. They want us to feel we can't have the freedoms they so despise, so what do we do? We erode those freedoms. I don't think I need expand on that. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you never will.

We also need to decide whether or not we really do want to end repressive regimes, or simply do what we have done and end repressive regimes inconvenient rto our own ends. We find ourslves now embroiled in supporting Assad's regime, indirectly or otherwise, a regime which has killed, so far, an esitimated 200,00 people, vastly more than Daesh. We halped create organisations like al-Qaeda (to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan) and Daesh (by invading Iraq, based on a carpet of lies and later claiming that it was Ok because we'd removed a dcictator whom we'd previously supported), and we continue to support Daesh by failing to put pressure on the Saudis. Meanwhile, we seem remarkably unconcerned with the actions of other regimes across the world. Mugabe rolls along, and we could do this all day and not run out of regimes we do nothing about.

Hilary Benn is about to visit Israel to show his support for their excesses, taking with him the chair of Labour Friends of Israel. Good timing Hilary.

So, forgive me if I'm less than impressed with my nation's global actions. They stink of corporatism and complete ignorance of what makes people tick. I don't believe that ignorance is accidental.

 

[sean_ork]

Brilliant just brilliant.

 

[Midwest]

Bloody hell, think that was longer than Hillary Benn's speech.

It's disingenyous because, as I said, nobody is seriously suggesting doing nothing. The reasoning behind the bombing has nothing to do with taking on and defeating Deash and everything to do with world image. Right wingers, nationalists everywhere, love the diea that their country is considered as great, strong, decisive, to be feared. Cameron, Benn and their cronies speak directly to this ideal. Britain HAS to be seen as a world leader, as a worthy successor to Empire. What emerges external to these shores (and to those of us who, time and again have heard this kind of flag-waving guff before) is a faintly ridiculous, post-Imperial stamping of the feet.

Want to know what you apparently can't find out for yourself? Well, here it is. Unpopular as it may seem, it's clear from history that we, the US and a few others can't abide the idea of not being involved. I don't think we need to pretend that our poltical masters aren't beholden to the military/industrial complex. Weapons, oil, gas and other products make vast swathes of money. Oil particualrly services fossil fuel energy solutions which are ultimately unsustainable. Put some real effort into renewable energy and we reduce, perhaps even end, our reliance on oil. With that comes a realisation that out involvement in the Middle East is all about oil. It's got nothing to do with despotic regimes or terror. Cameron, having failed to convince Parliament to bomb a dictator, has now managed to persuade them instead to bomb that dictator's enemies. I mean, as long as we're bombing someone, we're at least seen to be doing something, right? Since it's pretty clear that our involvement in the Middle East is what puts us on the hit list for every nut job emanating from that region, not being involved might help us to join Iceland and Tuvalu and all the other nations who aren't. It's a nice thought, if unlikely.

So you think it's all about oil, surely not.

Now, to more practical solutions, all of them being suggested by opponents of the present madness. How about, instead of sucking up to countries like Saudi Arabia, a country which funds and supports Daesh, along with spreading its foul ideology through Sunni mosques around the world, we, I don't know, maybe refuse to deal with them. Oh I know, British Aeropsace and others will lose orders, but think of the bribe money they'll save. While we're at it, istead of supporting Turkey's appalling human rights abuses, we issue an ultimatum. They start acting like human beings, or they get slung out of the club. This is probably idealistic, but if that doesn't happen, we could always leave the club ourselves. This would bring total NATO personnel from a bit over 7,000,000 to a tad under, so no great loss really, and we'd save on subscriptions, not to mention not being obliged to pour obscene amounts of money into an non-independent 'independent' nuclear folly. It's a funny thing, that. Nine UN nations have nuclear wepaons, which means 284 don't, and a few of them have managed to avoid war for the most part. Maybe then we could afford the NHS we deserve and stop the dumbing-down so beloved of the right.

So we should nuke the Turks?

We could work much harder to stop the marginalistaion of immigrant populations, which, by every economic measure, provide us a net benefit. I'm not thinking solely of the Muslim population, but it's that one which needs the most work at the moment. Radicalisation is clearly a problem and it needs to be addressed. Perceptions need to be changed if we are to halt the tide of impressionable youth from joining radical organisations such as Daesh. We have to stop obsessing about foreign immigrants 'assimilating' into Britsih culture. I wish I knew what 'British culture' is, by the way. Morris Dancing? Highland Dancing? Stricly Come Dancing? Instead, we need to embrace the idea that there is room for diversity. In fact, it's what makes any society vibrant and interesting. That way, immigrant populations can feel they are accepted without losing their identity.

The people of this country are not perfect, but I think we go some way to being a multi-cultural society.

Next, we need to stop reacting to every attack with the idea that we can somehow engage these morons in a straight, face-to-face fight. We can't and we know it. What we do know is that they carry out attacks to provoke a certain rweaction and we never disappoint. They want us to feel we can't have the freedoms they so despise, so what do we do? We erode those freedoms. I don't think I need expand on that. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you never will.

Just turn the other cheek then?

We also need to decide whether or not we really do want to end repressive regimes, or simply do what we have done and end repressive regimes inconvenient rto our own ends. We find ourslves now embroiled in supporting Assad's regime, indirectly or otherwise, a regime which has killed, so far, an esitimated 200,00 people, vastly more than Daesh. We halped create organisations like al-Qaeda (to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan) and Daesh (by invading Iraq, based on a carpet of lies and later claiming that it was Ok because we'd removed a dcictator whom we'd previously supported), and we continue to support Daesh by failing to put pressure on the Saudis. Meanwhile, we seem remarkably unconcerned with the actions of other regimes across the world. Mugabe rolls along, and we could do this all day and not run out of regimes we do nothing about.

Bet you hate fox hunting as well.

Hilary Benn is about to visit Israel to show his support for their excesses, taking with him the chair of Labour Friends of Israel. Good timing Hilary.

Jewish people form part of our multi-cultural society.

So, forgive me if I'm less than impressed with my nation's global actions. They stink of corporatism and complete ignorance of what makes people tick. I don't believe that ignorance is accidental.

Perhaps we should use gorilla tactics then, we could use our experts in the field of explosives;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IciZXalxSus

:seeya:

 

[telectrix]

i have the solution ... bomb them with pork pies.

 

[YoungScud]

Bloody hell, think that was longer than Hillary Benn's speech.



Perhaps we should use gorilla tactics then, we could use our experts in the field of explosives;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IciZXalxSus

:seeya:

I've never known gorillas to employ any tactics.

 

[YoungScud]

So you think it's all about oil, surely not.

Yes, i do.

So we should nuke the Turks?


Um, no, I don't think the US would let us, but let's engage in puerile nonsense instead of rational debate.


The people of this country are not perfect, but I think we go some way to being a multi-cultural society.

I think some of us do, but we need to do more.


Bet you hate fox hunting as well.

Even more puerile. I bet you use words like 'leftie'.


Jewish people form part of our multi-cultural society.

So do Muslims, but I don't see Hilary trotting off to Damascus to support Assad's mistreatment of his people. You do know that Israel claims to be a secular democracy, right? My ire was reserved for Israel, not Jews. Many Jews will assure you the two are not inseperable.

 

[telectrix]

some sensible points trhere. and fyi, i hate fox hunting. apart from being cruel and barbaric, horses make your arse ache.

 

[YoungScud]

Good point Tel.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Being a simple soul, if an entity like dash want to kill all non followers of their brand of ideology and start doing so, I say bomb the *astards - when they are all dead we can then negotiate about peace.

 

[Midwest]

So you think it's all about oil, surely not.

Yes, i do. That was a have.

So we should nuke the Turks?


Um, no, I don't think the US would let us, but let's engage in puerile nonsense instead of rational debate. Sorry, kinda lost track what you were saying.


The people of this country are not perfect, but I think we go some way to being a multi-cultural society.

I think some of us do, but we need to do more.


Bet you hate fox hunting as well.

Even more puerile. I bet you use words like 'leftie'. Another have, do you look at the vid?


Jewish people form part of our multi-cultural society.

So do Muslims, but I don't see Hilary trotting off to Damascus to support Assad's mistreatment of his people. You do know that Israel claims to be a secular democracy, right? My ire was reserved for Israel, not Jews. Many Jews will assure you the two are not inseperable.

Don't think anyone's gonna trot off to Damascus at the mo. Think you need to start another debate about Israel.

 

[Midwest]

I've never known gorillas to employ any tactics.

Absolute rubbish as ever, here's one such example; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyR_Mtb720g

 

[Guest77]

It's disingenyous because, as I said, nobody is seriously suggesting doing nothing. The reasoning behind the bombing has nothing to do with taking on and defeating Deash and everything to do with world image. Right wingers, nationalists everywhere, love the diea that their country is considered as great, strong, decisive, to be feared. Cameron, Benn and their cronies speak directly to this ideal. Britain HAS to be seen as a world leader, as a worthy successor to Empire. What emerges external to these shores (and to those of us who, time and again have heard this kind of flag-waving guff before) is a faintly ridiculous, post-Imperial stamping of the feet.

Want to know what you apparently can't find out for yourself? Well, here it is. Unpopular as it may seem, it's clear from history that we, the US and a few others can't abide the idea of not being involved. I don't think we need to pretend that our poltical masters aren't beholden to the military/industrial complex. Weapons, oil, gas and other products make vast swathes of money. Oil particualrly services fossil fuel energy solutions which are ultimately unsustainable. Put some real effort into renewable energy and we reduce, perhaps even end, our reliance on oil. With that comes a realisation that out involvement in the Middle East is all about oil. It's got nothing to do with despotic regimes or terror. Cameron, having failed to convince Parliament to bomb a dictator, has now managed to persuade them instead to bomb that dictator's enemies. I mean, as long as we're bombing someone, we're at least seen to be doing something, right? Since it's pretty clear that our involvement in the Middle East is what puts us on the hit list for every nut job emanating from that region, not being involved might help us to join Iceland and Tuvalu and all the other nations who aren't. It's a nice thought, if unlikely.

Now, to more practical solutions, all of them being suggested by opponents of the present madness. How about, instead of sucking up to countries like Saudi Arabia, a country which funds and supports Daesh, along with spreading its foul ideology through Sunni mosques around the world, we, I don't know, maybe refuse to deal with them. Oh I know, British Aeropsace and others will lose orders, but think of the bribe money they'll save. While we're at it, istead of supporting Turkey's appalling human rights abuses, we issue an ultimatum. They start acting like human beings, or they get slung out of the club. This is probably idealistic, but if that doesn't happen, we could always leave the club ourselves. This would bring total NATO personnel from a bit over 7,000,000 to a tad under, so no great loss really, and we'd save on subscriptions, not to mention not being obliged to pour obscene amounts of money into an non-independent 'independent' nuclear folly. It's a funny thing, that. Nine UN nations have nuclear wepaons, which means 284 don't, and a few of them have managed to avoid war for the most part. Maybe then we could afford the NHS we deserve and stop the dumbing-down so beloved of the right.

We could work much harder to stop the marginalistaion of immigrant populations, which, by every economic measure, provide us a net benefit. I'm not thinking solely of the Muslim population, but it's that one which needs the most work at the moment. Radicalisation is clearly a problem and it needs to be addressed. Perceptions need to be changed if we are to halt the tide of impressionable youth from joining radical organisations such as Daesh. We have to stop obsessing about foreign immigrants 'assimilating' into Britsih culture. I wish I knew what 'British culture' is, by the way. Morris Dancing? Highland Dancing? Stricly Come Dancing? Instead, we need to embrace the idea that there is room for diversity. In fact, it's what makes any society vibrant and interesting. That way, immigrant populations can feel they are accepted without losing their identity.

Next, we need to stop reacting to every attack with the idea that we can somehow engage these morons in a straight, face-to-face fight. We can't and we know it. What we do know is that they carry out attacks to provoke a certain rweaction and we never disappoint. They want us to feel we can't have the freedoms they so despise, so what do we do? We erode those freedoms. I don't think I need expand on that. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you never will.

We also need to decide whether or not we really do want to end repressive regimes, or simply do what we have done and end repressive regimes inconvenient rto our own ends. We find ourslves now embroiled in supporting Assad's regime, indirectly or otherwise, a regime which has killed, so far, an esitimated 200,00 people, vastly more than Daesh. We halped create organisations like al-Qaeda (to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan) and Daesh (by invading Iraq, based on a carpet of lies and later claiming that it was Ok because we'd removed a dcictator whom we'd previously supported), and we continue to support Daesh by failing to put pressure on the Saudis. Meanwhile, we seem remarkably unconcerned with the actions of other regimes across the world. Mugabe rolls along, and we could do this all day and not run out of regimes we do nothing about.

Hilary Benn is about to visit Israel to show his support for their excesses, taking with him the chair of Labour Friends of Israel. Good timing Hilary.

So, forgive me if I'm less than impressed with my nation's global actions. They stink of corporatism and complete ignorance of what makes people tick. I don't believe that ignorance is accidental.

A lot of what you say makes sence, however one thing, remember if it were not for us in the 1940s we would all be speaking German, we need to stand up to lunatics, ISIS are lunatics, so lets get in there and kick the shi$e out of them in their back door.

 

[telectrix]

A lot of what you say makes sence, however one thing, remember if it were not for us in the 1940s we would all be speaking German, we need to stand up to lunatics, ISIS are lunatics, so lets get in there and kick the shi$e out of them in their back door.

good job your jeremy corblimey ain't in charge then.

 

[derek]

A lot of what you say makes sence, however one thing, remember if it were not for us in the 1940s we would all be speaking German, we need to stand up to lunatics, ISIS are lunatics, so lets get in there and kick the shi$e out of them in their back door.

I think you could say that without the Russians we'd all be speaking German, from what I've heard about the war on the Eastern Front it was that which either broke, or was a massive contribution to the defeat of the Third Reich.

 

[telectrix]

I think you could say that without the Russians we'd all be speaking German, from what I've heard about the war on the Eastern Front it was that which either broke, or was a massive contribution to the defeat of the Third Reich.

true. russia's contribution was only exceeded by that of john wayne. :30:

 

[Guest77]

good job your jeremy corblimey ain't in charge then.

I am not Jeremy fan Tel, I am one of the 49.8% of the Labour party members who voted against him, I am seriously concidering voting for an independant candidate in the next general election should Jeremy still be at the helm in our party.

 

[Guest77]

I think you could say that without the Russians we'd all be speaking German, from what I've heard about the war on the Eastern Front it was that which either broke, or was a massive contribution to the defeat of the Third Reich.

I disagree, even without the russians we would have won through in the end, the Nukes dropped on Japan would have been dropped on Germany first.

 

[sean_ork]

The old new labour is dead (finally) - long live the new new labour.

For what it's worth, I think JC is a complete breath of fresh air to this Country's politics, he doesn't have the media savy smoothness of what most people assume of "politicians" - but that's all part of our problem, we've forgotten what a good politician is.

Its not what you look like, its not how articulate you are at fending off questions, its not what you say you'll do - its what you actually do that's the real measure of a politicians worth.

 

[andyb]

I am not Jeremy fan Tel, I am one of the 49.8% of the Labour party members who voted against him, I am seriously concidering voting for an independant candidate in the next general election should Jeremy still be at the helm in our party.

You mean 40.5% who did not have him as 1st preference.
He polled 59.5%

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Perhaps that 40.5% should join a party more in touch with their ideals and aspirations?

 

[andyb]

Perhaps that 40.5% should join a party more in touch with their ideals and aspirations?

That depends on what their 'ideals and aspirations' are Spin.

I'd like to think they are the same as the party as a whole.

 

[Midwest]

I disagree, even without the russians we would have won through in the end, the Nukes dropped on Japan would have been dropped on Germany first.

My memory of the WWII is a little bit hazy at this point. Think the ----'s Blitzkrieg'd thru Europe and stopped at the Channel and for some reason then decided to turn around to the Russians. Albeit the Battle of Britain caused them to pause, OP Sea lion was abandoned, Hitler's main campaign was Barbarossa. Britain stood firm during those difficult months but to say 'we would've won the war' downplays the significance of the east theatre.

 

[Guest77]

Perhaps that 40.5% should join a party more in touch with their ideals and aspirations?

We don't need too, I feel we lost touch during the post milliband era and went silly, some lunatics went for Jeremy, a lot of others jumped on the band wagon due to the bad press New labour got and we are where we are, we will bounce back, It will only take one strong new candidate and the party will soon get back where it belongs, in the Blair type policies which won us 3 elections.

 

[Guest77]

The old new labour is dead (finally) - long live the new new labour.

For what it's worth, I think JC is a complete breath of fresh air to this Country's politics, he doesn't have the media savy smoothness of what most people assume of "politicians" - but that's all part of our problem, we've forgotten what a good politician is.

Its not what you look like, its not how articulate you are at fending off questions, its not what you say you'll do - its what you actually do that's the real measure of a politicians worth.

I couldn't be farther from you politically even though we support the same party, Going far left will finish us, we need to get in touch with modern britain, Jeremy is a buffoon.

 

[andyb]

I couldn't be farther from you politically even though we support the same party, Going far left will finish us, we need to get in touch with modern britain, Jeremy is a buffoon.

We don't need too, I feel we lost touch during the post milliband era and went silly, some lunatics went for Jeremy, a lot of others jumped on the band wagon due to the bad press New labour got and we are where we are, we will bounce back, It will only take one strong new candidate and the party will soon get back where it belongs, in the Blair type policies which won us 3 elections.

Bad day MDJ?
In 2 sentences you've called me a lunatic (plus about 1/4 million others) and called the leader of the opposition a buffoon.
With debating skills like that maybe you should be standing yourself.:cheesy:

 

[GMES]

Bring back the king I say

 

[Guest77]

Bad day MDJ?
In 2 sentences you've called me a lunatic (plus about 1/4 million others) and called the leader of the opposition a buffoon.
With debating skills like that maybe you should be standing yourself.:cheesy:

I would never call you a lunatic Andy, a "Ahole" maybe :lips:

 

[andyb]

I would never call you a lunatic Andy, a "Ahole" maybe :lips:

Ok, so you've got me there. As long as you don't think me a lunatic.

 

[Guest77]

Ok, so you've got me there. As long as you don't think me a lunatic.

Haha You know I am your mate :17:

 

[Octopus]

We don't need too, I feel we lost touch during the post milliband era and went silly, some lunatics went for Jeremy, a lot of others jumped on the band wagon due to the bad press New labour got and we are where we are, we will bounce back, It will only take one strong new candidate and the party will soon get back where it belongs, in the Blair type policies which won us 3 elections.

When you say Blair type policies, you mean Tory ones !

 

[Guest77]

When you say Blair type policies, you mean Tory ones !

Too many beers on board tonight to go up against you on this Clive lol

 

[andyb]

Too many beers on board tonight to go up against you on this Clive lol

I'm off down the pub now to get up to speed on this.

 

[Barry White]

I would vote for a cockroach before this idiot !
Jeremy Corbyn intervenes to secure bail for fraudster accused of conning elderly in scam to raise funds for jihadists in Syria.
The Labour leader wrote a letter to magistrates in May in a bid to help Mohamed Dahir, 23 secure bail.
During that hearing, the court heard that Dahir’s gang were using the money as a “bank of terror” to “fund and facilitate the travel” of UK citizens to Syria and Iraq to fight with Isil.
Dahir has now been convicted of posing as a police officer to steal more than £600,000 from vulnerable elderly people.
The allegations that the money was used to fund terrorism were not heard by the jury and therefore did not form part of the conviction. No terrorism charges were brought.
Scotland Yard’s counter-terror unit last night confirmed that they believed the money was being sent to Syria.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...Christmas.html

 

[derek]

MP's act on behalf of their constituents, it is not unusual to write letters to help them out.

A quote from Business Insider

Jeremy Corbyn helped secure bail for one of his constituents after the man was accused of stealing money to raise funds for Islamic State fighters in Syria.
The Labour Party leader and MP for Islington North wrote a letter to magistrates in May in an attempt to aide 23-year-old Mohamed Dahir.
It is believed that Corbyn’s office was unaware of the alleged links to the funding of Islamic State. MPs routinely write supportive letters for constituents seeking help, if they know the family.
Corbyn wrote to the court to say Dahir warranted bail as he had “roots” in the Islington area and was unlikely to abscond.
Jeremy Corbyn wrote a letter to get bail for a man accused of helping to fund ISIS | Business Insider

 

[Midwest]

MP's act on behalf of their constituents, it is not unusual to write letters to help them out.

A quote from Business Insider

Jeremy Corbyn helped secure bail for one of his constituents after the man was accused of stealing money to raise funds for Islamic State fighters in Syria.

Of course they do and should do. However, they should look at what they have been accused of, and consider their level of assistance. Would he consider of writing a letter of support for a person accused of stealing money from elderly people? I understand you can only act upon the facts presented to you, but he is not obliged to support everyone, IMO. It's a judgemental thing. The letter of support, was to secure bail, not to support the accused. But, with hindsight, it doesn't look good now.

 

[Octopus]

I do wonder how long JC will remain in post - there must be hoards of Labour faithful s (MDJ included) who will be sticking the knives in soon!

 

[Guest77]

I do wonder how long JC will remain in post - there must be hoards of Labour faithful s (MDJ included) who will be sticking the knives in soon!

Yes Definately fella, I have already started as have others in the party,He needs to go, I like Chucka and also have heard Alan johnson would be happy to get back into front bench politics, not the leader but shadow cabinet, if so then he will only do so with a Chucka type candidate becomming leader, the new man needs to be central/right of the party if we will ever win a general election again because Britain is no longer far left like they were in the early 1970s, times have changed, our party needs to adapt to be serious opponents to the Conservative party or we as a party will die, we are on that road now with the British public.

Now before anyone says different, we are knocking on doors all over the country asking members of the public thier views, so far the feed back is the following from them

(1) we need to secure our borders
(2) we need to protect the monachy
(3) we need to keep our nuclear deterrent
(4) we need to remove ISIS
(5) we need to remove the bedroom tax
(6) we need to stop acting like kids in parliament
(7) we need to improve policing
(8) we need to catch benefit cheats and make them repay the fraud
(10) we need to sort out the mess in europe

Now you will understand the labour situation, our party at the moment is out of touch on nearly everyone of these issues, should there be a general election tommorrow David cameron would win with a huge huge majority, this is our findings to-date, some of us want change, and Jeremy out, we will continue the fight against him and my hope is he is gone by the spring of 2017 so we still have 3 years to convince the public we can govern, at the moment we are just a total joke.