Meter Tails

[Nightmare1308]

Hi,
On site dispute needs sorting.
We have a consumer unit 3m away as in distance (not cable length) from DNO (outside meter box, flush with wall).
We currently have a 25mm 3 core SWA from DNO to consumer unit. Running within the fabric of building and it's protected from the nails and the like (SWA glanded).
Arguments are
• What is the REG (BS7671 2008 A3) for meter tails greater than 3m if any.
• Why would you need to fuse it down with a SFS if you wouldn't when you just use tails through a wall to a consumer Unit normally?
Been looking through regs book but struggling to find it in the current one.
Any help would be greatful.

 

[Wilko]

Not sure - but I'm thinking 433.2.2 and 434.2.1 might be relevant.

 

[7029 dave]

What is the cable length.? You say distance to CU is 3 meters, why run a sub.?

 

[snowhead]

Isn't it the DNO who stipulate the max length of tails, as it's their Ocpd that's being used to protect the tails.
It won't be in BS7671

 

[Wilko]

A bit more info , fwiw
Association of Meter Operators - Stakeholder Info - https://www.meteroperators.org.uk/stakeholder-info

View attachment 35389

 

[Des 56]

You state the swa is glanded,if there is no switch fuse,what has been used to terminate the swa at the meter box end to convert to double insulated tails for connection to the meter

The 3 meter figure will not be found in BS7671,its a figure the supplier uses for guidance to its workers
We can use that distance as a suitable maximum for our tails to assure the supplier fuse will cover our cable for short circuit protection

 

[Nightmare1308]

Sorry late getting back to you didn't get any notifications.

The SWA had been useda because the consumer unit is other side of the door and there is no safe zone to run the cable, I did think about chasing it out so it was greater then 50mm or using steel plate (galvanised) to protect it though it's run but it was easier with SWA.
It's got a floating Gland which is fixed into place by cable cliets. It also has a layer of heat shrink. Which then the cable connections go straight into the DP isolator.
It hasn't got any SF because it will not fit in the meter box with the REC equipment and the client won't allow it behind as it's directly in the middle of the living room next to the door.
The "3m" rule doesn't state length only distance if I read it correct?
Any solutions would be great, and thanks for the relevant information I will look up later.

 

[Leader]

Recently had the same type of scenario. Both EDF and Western Power were happy for us to connect to the CU around 6m away, no problem at all!! Double checked with different people just to make sure.

 

[stevethesparks]

My daughters house on a reasonably new housing estate, the CU is also 5-6 metres away from the meter. Pretty well protected on a short (3m standard) run in a cavity, but I have my doubts that the full run will meet all requirements. Meter cupboard on front wall low level to left of the front door, CU in hallway to right hand side of the door high level. Standard D/ins 25mm tails (or insulated and sheathed to keep the more pedantic amongst us happy)

 

[Leesparkykent]

A floating gland sounds a bit rubbish imo. I probably wouldn't of used SWA if a switch fuse couldn't be fitted. Tails and suitable protection or another box next to the meter box to house the switch fuse.

 

[westward10]

Mmm, not sure about heat shrink giving adequate mechanical protection either.

 

[7029 dave]

A floating gland sounds a bit rubbish imo. I probably wouldn't of used SWA if a switch fuse couldn't be fitted. Tails and suitable protection or another box next to the meter box to house the switch fuse.

 

[7029 dave]

I have seen so many and it makes me want to cry.!!

 

[Midwest]

Wots a floating gland, I have an idea, and seen it prompted on this forum, but just to be clear.

 

[stevethesparks]

A gland that on the cable but not affixed to any metalwork or casing.

 

[westward10]

Wots a floating gland, I have an idea, and seen it prompted on this forum, but just to be clear.

It is where the cable is glanded off in a cavity and not to an enclosure, not something many people and myself approve of but it is common practice.

 

[davesparks]

What is the point of a 'floating gland'? It doesn't fulfill the purpose of fitting a gland to the end of the cable.
Why not use a different method of terminating the SWA which does actually serve the purpose instead of bodgeing it?

 

[Des 56]

[QUOTE="Nightmare1308, consumer unit is other side of the door and there is no safe zone to run the cable
Whispering mode cavity,tails

It's got a floating Gland which is fixed into place by cable cliets.


It also has a layer of heat shrink. Which then the cable connections go straight into the DP isolator.

It hasn't got any SF because it will not fit in the meter box with the REC equipment

[/QUOTE]

Bit glum with this post

 

[ackbarthestar]

Oh dear ! .... Not the floating gland syndrome .......
We all know what that might be, the OP will need to clarify what he/she means by a 'floating gland'

 

[Nightmare1308]

Had the same feeling when i see it installed by the team.
But it has been glanded and banjo has also taken down to the met. The SWA gland and banjo has been covered with waterproof rubber taping to protect it from water ingress if ever possible.
The Rec double pole switch is within a REC meter cupboard but trying to understand the risk of the SWA core being damaged or we just frowning apon this?
The fact it is a earthed metallic covering (SWA) does it require a safe zone and it's most likely going to be 50mm deep after the dot and dab is lined up with the stud wall.
The idea with tails in a cavity, has been pulled via the NICEIC before that's why we avoid that route as the single cables can be hit if not protected, e.g cavity wall insulation drillers.
we can only work with what we got currently but looking to see if any regulations are broken ? I
no that it don't make any of this better and it's not my work, I'm just trying to settle the debate of who's right and who's wrong with regulations.
Moving forward with we trying to come to a solution of what to do but struggling with client as neither of my solutions are liked that's why this all started.

Just to clear the floating gland up, (Short and long of it) manufacturers instructions on some telecoms kit is specified to be done that way. As much as I didn't like it originally NIC couldn't advise otherwise. But we all do different line of works within the electrical industry

 

[westward10]

I would consider the heat shrink not giving conductors adequate mechanical protection. The fact you could never fit the heat shrink up into the cable sufficiently would render the conductors as not being suitably enclosed. It is a poor method to solve a problem and I always comment on an EICR if I see such a situation.

 

[Nightmare1308]

I must be interpreting the regulations differently as I thought the meterbox was an enclosure (equipment surround by a barrier). Where is the risk of mechanical damage to the cable if the meter box was in a sound condition ?
Just trying to understand your point of view.
Is there any regulations out there for the main topic?

 

[Wilko]

A meter box as a suitable enclosure for a cable joint (like a giant junction box), if I've understood correctly?
Plenty I see have broken doors and since householder commonly approaches the meter anyway (to take a reading) I don't think the box can be relied upon as a barrier. But that's just my thought.

 

[Nightmare1308]

Yes but on a condition report you would only report on the safety of the meter box at time of test, we can't retrospectively apply regs.
I'm still trying to work a way round for the lads on this issue, I don't disagree with the SF idea but it's not going to fit next to the REC and even if I removed there double pole isolator (which I can as I'm MOCOPA approved) what can I fit in the meter box.
What would you do "Wilko" with what they got?
As it's a 25mm 3 core SWA coming though the top knock out (with fire resistant foam to seal the cavity when it's done).
My biggest struggle is with the designer as he saying find me regs showing he's wrong.
Thanks for your replies.

 

[davesparks]

134.1.1 - good workmanship.
An unsecured floating SWA gland is not an example of good workmanship by skilled persons, it is a bodge

 

[Wilko]

What would you do "Wilko" with what they got?
Thanks for your replies.

Hi - I would bite the bullet and make room for an enclosure to terminate the swa.