Military Electrician

[jonnyhammond]

Hi Guys

Im just after some general info. Im an electrician in the Army but ill shortly making the transition to "civvie street"
Im after doing a few courses and wondered what would be the best direction to go in? Obviously the 2394/5 (new 2391 qualification) would be great but with a decent knowledge of my trade but little experience im hesitant about doing it. I already have my 17th edition and the 2369 Electrical installation work services equivilant to 2360 electrical installation work

Do you guys know if the "Domestic Installation Workshop 4141-01" qualification offered by 'trade skills 4 u' carries much weight on a CV??
(Domestic Installation Workshop C&G 4141-01)

Any other info (OR A JOB?!) would be greatly appreciated. Are there many military sparks that have successfully made the transition that you know of?

Im 26 and looking to settle in the London area.

Thanks!​

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Hi Guys

Im just after some general info. Im an electrician in the Army but ill shortly making the transition to "civvie street"
Im after doing a few courses and wondered what would be the best direction to go in? Obviously the 2394/5 (new 2391 qualification) would be great but with a decent knowledge of my trade but little experience im hesitant about doing it. I already have my 17th edition and the 2369 Electrical installation work services equivilant to 2360 electrical installation work

Do you guys know if the "Domestic Installation Workshop 4141-01" qualification offered by 'trade skills 4 u' carries much weight on a CV??
(Domestic Installation Workshop C&G 4141-01)

Any other info (OR A JOB?!) would be greatly appreciated. Are there many military sparks that have successfully made the transition that you know of?

Im 26 and looking to settle in the London area.

Thanks!​

Hi Johnny,

You'll get a lot of replies to this question I suspect, in particular about the Domestic Installers course! If you are already an electrician couldn't you just contact one of the schemes (Napit, elecsa, stroma, NIceic) and ask for an assessment to become part P registered. I'm not entirely sure what qualifications they require you to have but I suspect you have enough as you have to show that you are competent (at least for domestic Part P). Worth ringing them as it will save you the £2-3000 of the Trade skills 4 u course (which I dont think anyone will speak highly of).

 

[jonnyhammond]

Thanks for that. I gathered the 4141 domestic course wasnt too much to shout about! Not necessarily looking to get into the domestic game but if im being offered free courses thought i should do some digging on it! Anything to bring my CV to the top of the pile.
Thanks mate!

 

[johnboy6083]

do the 2394/5 mate. You may not understand the testing much now but you will later. I did the 2391 through resettlement (I trained as a ME- electrician at chatham, but didn't finish) and when I entered the big wide world of the construction sites, I just grafted and kept my head down. I qualified about 2 years later, and I feel im a better electrician for working as a mate. I had a brilliant mentor in the firm I worked for, and I asked no end of questions. I know a few ex sappers and theyre doing well. The sapper experience and attitude fits well in our chosen occupation.

 

[D Skelton]

I completed one of the 5 week wonder courses through resettlement when leaving the army. I very quickly realised it wasn't worth the paper it was written on and went down the college/nvq route. I was just lucky to find someone who took me on as an apprentice.

My advice, ditch the '$hiteskills4u' idea and crack on with the 2394/5. If you manage to get yourself a decent mates position I'd also look at getting into college on the 2357 conversion, it's one night per week plus the NVQ work that is mainly done at home. Once done you'll have everything you need to get a gold card.

Best of luck pal, I know how hard it's gonna be for you to adjust!

 

[Guest55]

Are there many military sparks that have successfully made the transition that you know of?
​

successfully ? who knows ?
but you must be the 20th ex-forces wanna be spark this week thats asked the same question on our forum.
​

 

[Tradeskills4u]

Hi Johnny Hammond,

I thought I should just quickly highlight that the 4141 would almost certainly be too basic for you it is really intended for people new to the industry. However if you did want to go down the 2394/95 route then you can use your ELC's to pay for it as they are both Level 3 Quals and registered with ELCAS.

Contrary to other comments on this thread you will find our courses are of the highest standard and if you look at feedback from people who have actually been on them you will find it is all very positive. Yes we do offer courses for domestic installers which can be taken over a short period or spread out. However we also boast a whole range of more difficult quals such as the 2394, 2395 and also the 2396 too (which is a level 4 qual). Our pass rates on these courses are way above the national average which currently sits around 35% and this is a testament to our tutors who are very experienced.

Yes lot's of sparks love to have a pop at us because we have a high profile in the industry, however few of them ever bother to look at what we really do. We are a specialist training provider providing accredited qualifications the same as anyone else in the UK including colleges. If you prefer to spread a 4 or 5 days course over a 5 week period then that is up to you, however you will still get the same amount of training and knowledge if you sit it with us or anyone else out there.

There are lots of dodgy training providers out there, but take a look at what we offer and how we do it and you will see we are not one of them.

You can find a full list of all our ELC accredited courses here: Resettlement Courses - Electrician Training

 

[jamesBoater]

What exactly is involved in a 4-5 day course?

 

[jonnyhammond]

Thanks for all the info guys.
it really is a massive help! for myself and other military sparks alike. 2394/5 here i come!

 

[D Skelton]

Yes lot's of sparks love to have a pop at us because we have a high profile in the industry

Nothing at all to do with your profile, I'm sure one or two of your tutors know their stuff also! We like to have a pop because most of us who are qualified are disgusted at the way the industry is in such steep decline. A lot of this has to do with the influx of thousands of have a go 5 week chancers over the last few years taking our work and undercutting our prices without any knowledge whatsoever. An electrician used to be a valued trade, it used to be hard to become one, now it seems anyone can be one, just do a five day course, lable up their van with NIC logos and away they go!

We like to have a pop because training providers like you are wholly to blame for this, but hey, as long as you're making millions out of our misery, who cares?!

There are lots of dodgy training providers out there

Yeah, too right! Like those corporate con artists that like to tell people they'll be a spark in 5 days! Hmmm...

 

[D Skelton]

Thanks for all the info guys.
it really is a massive help! for myself and other military sparks alike. 2394/5 here i come!

And make sure you go to a local college, you'll pay a tenth of what these corporates will charge you!

 

[Tradeskills4u]

Hi D Skleton, If you want to blame us then you have to blame the colleges too. We are all in the same business and all provide the same courses. Our business is to help people get qualified and yes that does mean we help people enter the industry, however every industry in the UK has an entry point and education establishments are always essential to that process. Most industries welcome good quality training that is accessible to all.

We don't contribute to dumbing down the industry, we educate people, new entrants, existing sparkies, allied trades, contracts managers, in fact anyone that wants to learn how to do things properly.

The real issue if you are concerned about the dumbing down of the industry is the 1000's and 1000's of untrained people still working in the industry with no training whatsoever.

 

[Plonker 3]

Now you are kindly answering questions.

Could you please explain what e difference is between a domestic installer and a fully qualified electrician is please. As when I was at college the science behind any electrical installation was the same regardless of whether it was adding a extension to a existing house, or wiring up a new build shopping centre.

How can you satisfactorily say that you are happy letting people leave your training centers after merely 18 days telling them they are competent to work on electrical installations, after joining a scam. I let my Elecsa membership lapse as I see what a farce Part P is making of the industry.

- - - Updated - - -

Now you are kindly answering questions.

Could you please explain what e difference is between a domestic installer and a fully qualified electrician is please. As when I was at college the science behind any electrical installation was the same regardless of whether it was adding a extension to a existing house, or wiring up a new build shopping centre.

How can you satisfactorily say that you are happy letting people leave your training centers after merely 18 days telling them they are competent to work on electrical installations, after joining a scam. I let my Elecsa membership lapse as I see what a farce Part P is making of the industry.

 

[D Skelton]

Hi D Skleton, If you want to blame us then you have to blame the colleges too. We are all in the same business and all provide the same courses.

There's no colleges round my way that provide 5 week wonder courses. Its either a full qual or nothing. Colleges exist to educate, you lot exist to make money, there is a stark difference between the two, so you can't say that you're in the same business considering only one of you is actually a business.

Our business is to help people get qualified and yes that does mean we help people enter the industry, however every industry in the UK has an entry point and education establishments are always essential to that process. Most industries welcome good quality training that is accessible to all.

Good quality electrical training comes in the form of anything that ISN'T a 5 week course! Another thing worth pointing out is why should electrical training be accessible to 'all'? Many people simply aren't capable of being electricians! A local college will be able to weed out the wheat from the chaff and if neccessary educate people to a level whereby they can potentially be exposed to electrical training. You guys would educate anyone regardless of their IQ. It's the typical 'I'm a builder but want to be an electrician' mentality that you support. "Go on lads, go on a 5 week course and earn £50,000 a year" pft! Absolute nonsense.

We don't contribute to dumbing down the industry

You can tell yourself that until you're blue in the face, that fact remains that you do.

we educate people, new entrants, existing sparkies, allied trades, contracts managers, in fact anyone that wants to learn how to do things properly.

If people wanted to learn how to do things properly they would get a real qualification, not a 5 week 'bodge it and scarper' qual. All you are doing is misleading the masses into thinking that you offer real results, you don't, all you produce is frankly dangerous, underqualified, under experienced wannabes. There are one or two 5 week wonders who have their heads screwed on, but that's no thanks to you.

The real issue if you are concerned about the dumbing down of the industry is the 1000's and 1000's of untrained people still working in the industry with no training whatsoever.

There has and always will be untrained people carrying out electrical work, all you are doing is providing them and more with a means to legitamise what they do! We all know that training means sod all in this industry in comparison to real experience, and the only way to get real experience is with a real qualification!

Just be honest with yourself mate, all your company is there to do is make money at the expense of the industry. You can kid yourself all you like that you are there to 'help' people get qualified but if your wage was reduced to that of a local college lecturer how keen would you be to 'help' then?

 

[Knobhead]

What is worrying me at the moment is the lack of training for industrial electricians / engineers. House building does nothing for the GDP figures, it’s an expense. Manufacturing does bring in the cash needed for growth.

I’m afraid short courses will never give the experience required to keep a plant running.

 

[shagbite]

short courses only provide false hope and empty pockets to people who want to better themselves. oh, and fat wallets for the scheisters who peddle these cons. i'd like to know if the fella from tradeskills would let one of his 5 day "graduates" rewire his nan's house.

 

[plugsandsparks]

FWIW, I used TS4U for 17th and Part P a few years ago, did 2391 locally at BG. What i can say is that TS4U were very good.

What shocked me when i came back into the industry and updated the qualies was the amazingly low pass level for the ridiculously easy tests. This is a C&G issue, they need to at least add 20% onto the required pass level, after all we are supposed to be dealing with a potentially dangerous service.

 

[shagbite]

city and guilds are up to their neck in it as well. they're as much to blame as anyone. they need a complete overhaul - starting with the withdrawal of multiple choice exams.

 

[Knobhead]

C&G have their noses in the trough along with the rest. They should be ashamed of what they have done to this trade!

My first C&G certificates were issued by the Union of Lancashire and Cheshire Institutes.
Multiple choice? Open book? Forget it!
If you didn’t know the subject you had no chance!

My EITB certificates mean far more to me. You had to prove yourself.
OK the company bent over backwards to help. You need something for you’re log book?
Pack you’re bags, you’re going to a different division of the company.
The scary bit was the one to one interview with the examiner, I’ll admit I was bricking myself before it and during it.

 

[Tradeskills4u]

Look guys I understand your frustrations but there isn't a massive conspiracy to de-skill the industry and as far as I can tell standards are on the increase because training providers, City & Guilds, EAL, the IET, The ESC and the scheme providers are all working to ensure people are competent. Competence is a mix of training and experience. However people have to start somewhere especially if they can't get a job so they more often than not choose training and education. Every industry needs an entry point and I for one think domestic installer is a pretty good place to start.

You are going to have to accept that the Domestic Installer is here to stay. You can not expect people to do a 5 year apprenticeship if all they will be doing is domestic work. It simply isn't necessary and it would be a huge waste of everyone's time.

The reality is that before Part P and Domestic Installer schemes what we had was a load of untrained cowboys. As frustrating as it must be for those who have trained for 5 years yes you can train with us in the basics of domestic installation within an 18 day period and our courses will ensure you are safe to go out there an install.

If we raise this bar too high and insist on a 5 year apprenticeship for domestic installation people will simply run underneath it and we end up back at square one.

I know I wont win you guys over as your minds are already made up but some of your comments seem a bit extreme to say the least and it is clear that anyone involved in helping people enter the industry is in the firing line.