Discuss Neutral - earth continuity understanding or misunderstanding? in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Lucien Nunes

-
Mentor
Esteemed
Arms
Reaction score
13,478
Over the last few days, I have stumbled across a number of threads that seem to point to a prevalent misunderstanding. Either that, or I have been misunderstanding the intention of the posters. I'm not linking any threads here as I don't want to call anyone out for this specifically.

In each case, the discussion runs along the following lines:
OP: I get continuity / zero IR between some neutral and some CPC somewhere. Please help.
Helpful poster: Were they still attached to the bars in the CU? Was the main switch on? Is the supply TN-C-S?

The crux is that third question. By specifically asking it, or some variant of it, the helpful poster is implying that TN-C-S supplies have solid continuity between N & E, and by extension, that other configurations do not, including TN-S.

By definition, all TN systems have solid continuity between N & E; the only difference between TN-S and TN-C-S in that regard is where the nearest connection is located. In TN-C-S it is at the head, in TN-S it could be as far away as the substation, but there will be a metal conductor between the two somewhere. TT has a rather less substantial connection via the rod, so you've got Ra in the test circuit which will likely swamp the resistance of the copper, but 'in spirit' the two are still connected.

To an insulation tester, such differences in resistance of a few hundred ohms are neither here nor there. Even a TT system with terribly high Ra still has good enough continuity between N & MET to read 0.0 megohms between the CU busbars as soon as the main RCD is flipped on. More interesting is what you read on a continuity test in the same place. Clearly, TN-C-S is going to read near zero ohms because the two conductors are joined right there on the spot. Supplies delivered as TN-S but locally PME'd in the road are also likely to do so. In theory even TN-S supplies with the whole length of distributor cable between head and substation in-circuit are not going to read very much resistance, still zero for practical purposes.

The reason one might not get a near-zero reading N-E of a TN-S supply is the voltage drop along the neutral caused by load current. The low test voltage applied by a continuity range tends to get swamped by the AC voltage drop, causing the tester to display a reading that could be anywhere between correct and nonsense, even negative. The resistance of the N-E path is still low, it's just that the continuity tester can't measure it due to the interference. The IR tester with its much higher voltage and lower resolution is less sensitive and likely to return a consistent zero reading.

Now I've got that off my chest, I'll also mention that I have seen a couple of mentions of 'buzz bars' recently too. The 'bus' in 'busbar' is short for omnibus, just like the big vehicle with lots of seats, i.e. a means of transport available to everybody (or every circuit.) Do people really take a ride on a 'buzz' or what? Or do they think the bars make a buzzing noise?

Full disclosure: I'm lying in a hospital bed with lots of background noise completely unable to get to sleep. If it carries on like this tomorrow I'll find some more niggles to whinge about.
 
@Lucien Nunes it's an excellent point (as usual!) that you make.
For some reason a couple of my very early testing experiences in the wild have stuck in my mind (many years ago) and left me far too conscious the N-E link in the cut-out for TNCS earthed supplies.
The fact that for ([many years] - 2 weeks) I've been turning the main switch off before testing is actually the important point!

Please don't stop pointing out these things!

(and by the way, totally off topic but you are in hospital so who cares - you did a fantastic job on Chris Lawton's Compton repair, you have made him the happiest man in the country! I thought of you several times when he was posting about the issues he was having with it but assumed you were too far away and too busy. It was amazing to read you travelled so far, turned up with an Avo Mk 4 and spent over 8 hours repairing it. You also made history as it's the first time I can remember a post about an electronic organ surviving the the moderator of the strictly Pipe Organ facebook group!)
 
Buzz bars, cont(r)actors, r(R)...... I'll go back to rocking in my chair and sobbing quietly into the abandoned English language.

(Interestingly, and not sure why, I've always used two 'S' as buss).
 

Reply to Neutral - earth continuity understanding or misunderstanding? in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Similar Threads

Hi, I would love some help understanding an issue I’m having on a 16mm SWA cable running from the CU in my house to the CU in the shed. I believe...
Replies
15
Views
2K
Trying to understand why car chargers attract this earthing ballache. from what I learnt it's all about the rare times a Neutral / PEN conductor...
Replies
6
Views
2K
During some testing I found a N-E IR fault on the kitchen lights of 0.1Mohms. I also found a N-E IR fault on the ring sockets, again 0.1Mohms...
Replies
58
Views
8K
Hi, looking for some ideas on this. I went to an address on Tuesday following a storm where property has been struck by lightning. When the...
Replies
3
Views
735
Hi was recently at a property and was installing a Solar PV system. was doing my testing and i came across a weird result when doing the...
Replies
23
Views
3K

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

Electrical Forum

Welcome to the Electrical Forum at ElectriciansForums.net. The friendliest electrical forum online. General electrical questions and answers can be found in the electrical forum.
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock