No Circuit Breaker - deal breaker ?

[GinALing]

HI , potential 2 bed 1970’s bungalow buyer here….

Our surveyor (RICS) has pointed out there is no circuit breaker to the electrics (fuse board, meter etc. installed in garage). Please see crappy photo attached. Vendor bought property in 2005, and, looking at the photo, the installation does NOT look to be from the original build era.

I’ve asked to see the EICR from vendor but yet to have a reply.

I guess I have 3 questions for you.
Is this lack of a CB a C1?
Would we have to install one ?
Would that then entail a full rewire?

I’m obviously wanting to renegotiate the selling price - any opinions from you guys will be really instructive . Thank you

 

[DPG]

It has fuses rather than circuit breakers. It has no RCD protection. I would say it could well be original

Its not dangerous, it's just 'of its time' - it's certainly not a C1. That said, a new consumer unit would be advisable though.

An EICR (electrical assessment) would be useful to see what sort of a state the installation is in, but the wiring could well be in good order. An electrician will test this as part of the EICR.

Oh and welcome to the forum.

 

[littlespark]

On its own, an old fuse board like that will be a C3 on an EICR “improvement recommended”

There will be a whole list of C3’s regarding rcd protection, lack of SPD, etc….. but there’s no reason to upgrade unless a C1 or C2 is present.

Of course, upgrading the board would probably wipe out every C3 on that list, but as it stands, there’s no reason for the vendor to reduce the price…. But then again, there’s no harm in asking.

 

[Avo Mk8]

John Ward suggests that Wylex fuse box is from the 1970's, so may be original to the house - actually maybe the wall looks earlier!!??
(I installed a couple in the 70's in my own house, but they were the wood frame and bakelite front style!)

 

[brianmoooore]

, but the wiring could well be in good order.

It may well be, but the chances are that there's not a lot of it by modern standards.
If there are a 'modern' amount of lights and sockets, etc., I'd be far more concerned about the standard of these additions than the outdated fusebox.

 

[littlespark]

Unfortunately, you can’t negotiate a house sale price over “number of sockets”

There’s still a huge number of 1970’s ex council houses that were sold off, that have never had a rewire, or updated fuse boards….
House owners tend to go with new kitchen, double glazing or an extension before they think about rewiring.
If it works it ain’t broken kind of thinking.

As I suggested to the OP earlier… there’s no harm in asking for a drop in price, but it’s not a dealbreaker in this condition.
All depends on how desperate the vendors are to sell.

 

[oscar21]

I've yet to see a house of that vintage, especially when someone has just bought it, not to need everything doing to it. I'm talking a full re-wire, new boiler, pipework, radiators. floorboards will have been butchered everywhere and creak like a haunted house, there will be loose plaster that will fall off as soon as you try to scrape the wall paper off, the roof will leak and things like windows and knock through's will also be bodged.

I'm not saying its a certainty but I've yet to come across a house that doesn't need that sort of work doing to it in 30+ years. You see DIYers are full on mentalists most of the time and seem to love trying to reduce to rubble the most expensive thing they will ever buy. So I wouldn't worry about a lack of RCD or whatever is missing, it will be the least of your problems once you get stuck into things.

 

[littlespark]

we don't know if this house has had a history of DIYing....So we don't know if there's huge problems until OP sees the EICR.

My parents house, ex council, has now had 3 lots of glazing, 2 replacement kitchen units, a few missing walls and the results of me practicing my trade when i was an apprentice.... Not a rewire, but additions and alterations.
Its PVC/PVC, earth wires where there should be (lighting circuits) and still had the original MEM rewirable fuses up until 1996....
Board is due another upgrade, but not for safety reasons.

Identical house across the road has not been touched since the house was built in 1974. Original kitchen, original windows, original owner.

 

[DPG]

I've yet to see a house of that vintage, especially when someone has just bought it, not to need everything doing to it. I'm talking a full re-wire, new boiler, pipework, radiators. floorboards will have been butchered everywhere and creak like a haunted house, there will be loose plaster that will fall off as soon as you try to scrape the wall paper off, the roof will leak and things like windows and knock through's will also be bodged.

I'm not saying its a certainty but I've yet to come across a house that doesn't need that sort of work doing to it in 30+ years. You see DIYers are full on mentalists most of the time and seem to love trying to reduce to rubble the most expensive thing they will ever buy. So I wouldn't worry about a lack of RCD or whatever is missing, it will be the least of your problems once you get stuck into things.

No point scaring the guy when we haven't even seen the house. The wiring may be fine.

 

[oscar21]

No point scaring the guy when we haven't even seen the house. The wiring may be fine.

Absolutely, the wiring may be perfect, its not impossible. I was just stating a fact that in 30 years or more of doing stuff like this I'm yet to see an example of such.

 

[oscar21]

we don't know if this house has had a history of DIYing....So we don't know if there's huge problems until OP sees the EICR.

My parents house, ex council, has now had 3 lots of glazing, 2 replacement kitchen units, a few missing walls and the results of me practicing my trade when i was an apprentice.... Not a rewire, but additions and alterations.
Its PVC/PVC, earth wires where there should be (lighting circuits) and still had the original MEM rewirable fuses up until 1996....
Board is due another upgrade, but not for safety reasons.

Identical house across the road has not been touched since the house was built in 1974. Original kitchen, original windows, original owner.

To reinforce my point, I did an EICR on a large property a couple of years ago, the house had so many alterations and bodges over the years and despite looking very modern it failed miserably and I gave up in the end and said look it pointless going any further it needs a full re-wire. The only thing that was done well was the garage that was untouched from the 80's when it was built.

 

[GinALing]

No point scaring the guy when we haven't even seen the house. The wiring may be fine.

It’s ok, I don’t scare easy

 

[7029 dave]

I had a potential buyer (over 30 years ago) coming round waving his survey report and Electric PIR as it was called in them days, trying to put the boot in to get money off.
The electrical contractor they sent round to do the EICR seamed ok I let him get on with it.
Bang Bang looked in the bath room he's taking my bath panel off WHAT THE HELL you doing I shouts, seeing if the water pipes are bonded was his reply.
I was fuming didnt ask permission and started to dismantling my property.
That buyer got show the door with his Electrician!

 

[rich7469]

On its own, an old fuse board like that will be a C3 on an EICR “improvement recommended”

There will be a whole list of C3’s regarding rcd protection, lack of SPD, etc….. but there’s no reason to upgrade unless a C1 or C2 is present.

Of course, upgrading the board would probably wipe out every C3 on that list, but as it stands, there’s no reason for the vendor to reduce the price…. But then again, there’s no harm in asking.

If there is no RCD protection to supply sockets for outdoors it will be a C2.411.3.3

 

[littlespark]

If there is no RCD protection to supply sockets for outdoors it will be a C2.411.3.3

We don't know from just that one image.... all the sockets could be RCD built in ones... we dont know. (yes, highly unlikely)

 

[pc1966]

As others have already said the condition of the installation some 30-50 years on can very between "OK, but dated, not enough sockets" to "shoddy mess of DIY and other work", so the fact the CU is quite dated is not really your biggest concern.

If you do buy this property you will want to change it for various reasons, ranging from improving safety (even if currently "adequate") to part of a total rewiring job if you decide/realise there are simply not enough sockets and lights, and/or where you want them.

If you might rewire or do any sort of major job, then please do it first - before you consider decorating and new carpets!

 

[GinALing]

As others have already said the condition of the installation some 30-50 years on can very between "OK, but dated, not enough sockets" to "shoddy mess of DIY and other work", so the fact the CU is quite dated is not really your biggest concern.

If you do buy this property you will want to change it for various reasons, ranging from improving safety (even if currently "adequate") to part of a total rewiring job if you decide/realise there are simply not enough sockets and lights, and/or where you want them.

If you might rewire or do any sort of major job, then please do it first - before you consider decorating and new carpets!

Yes, thank you. This place is for my mother whose only focus is a new kitchen whilst myself & sis look at those electrics and think otherwise !