RCBO installtion in old MCU following EICR Report

[davesparks]

new RCBOs can't be installed on existing current bus bar.

Yes they can, the busbar hasn't changed, new RCBOs can be installed to replace the first four MCBs.

 

[davesparks]

No protection on the first four MCBs, plastic unit (front cover lid) and no SPD from what I recall.

Replace first four MCBs with RCBO's.

The plastic front cover will be a recommendation for improvement and does not prevent a satisfactory report. As long as all terminals are correctly tightened this will be perfectly safe.

SPD is, again, only a recommendation. Lack of an SPD cannot prevent you getting a satisfactory report.

 

[Deanp35]

Yes they can, the busbar hasn't changed, new RCBOs can be installed to replace the first four MCBs.

I will speak to him today whether he can do this. He may not like the idea that I am reading things from the internet (some builders get defensive as they think I'm educating them with things when they supposedly know best). I think the removal of the 2 RCDs on the right was also due to the fact that I am renting the property which I think was also one of the reasons it was advised to me to have it removed and change to all 6 RCBOs and to take out the RCCB and the big breaker with the yellow button on it as well along with the busbar issue but I will speak to him again.

 

[westward10]

You are letting a builder do this?
The solution is so obvious fit six RCBOs to the left for all circuits. Is the reason they did not fit is because they were not Starbreaker RCBOs?

 

[Deanp35]

Apologises, by builder I mean electrician as on mybuilder.com they class electrician as builders in one of their categories. My electrican has advised he can't change the RCBOs as the front lid is plastic and SPD required so won't pass EICR. To be honest quite a few electricians have said this and I don't know the reason why. I have with the little knowledge that I have these should be C3s as mine is in good condition, installed in the lounge in open space. I guess some are not making much money from this so just advise new fuse board £600-£700 of work. He said if I can find a metal fronnt lid measuring 365mm by 220mm height, he can then pass EICR with the RCBOs. Problem is none available from ebay or otherwise.

 

[westward10]

Sounds like you have an inexperienced electrician or con man.

 

[Deanp35]

I will need to look at another electrician for sure. I have even been told SPD is required due to new legislation changes coming but I'm not sure if a Crabtree Starbreaker SPD will fit my unit. Will need to check.

 

[westward10]

SPDs are relatively speaking recent but the general consensus it would in their absence warrant a Code 3. The same would apply for a combustible consumer unit cover.

 

[MDJ]

Irritates me when I hear the DB must be metal as mentioned previously, there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of plastic DBs in the country, these complied with regs when fitted so why is the so called spark insisting it is changed to comply? comply with what, todays regs? if we all had to comply with todays regs all these DBs would need changing and thats not going to happen.

Replace the left side of the board with RCBOs and thats it, get another spark, one who speaks English and one who isn't trying to rape your bank account.

 

[littlespark]

#33, you say you are renting this property?

What is the landlord doing about it? Why are you doing the donkey work looking for an electrician?


The electricians on websites such as those always seem desperate for work…. So touting for work that strictly doesn’t need done is commonplace.

If it does go ahead, you can get some aesthetically pleasing consumer units that look fine…. Even sitting out on surface of wall.

 

[Deanp35]

It is for renting the property yes as otherwise nothing needs doing I was told. To be honest, I understand everything that has been said so far the problem I am getting is no electrician is willing to change the RCBOs and pass EICR and these are coming from Checkatrade and mybuilder websites. Same stories, its plastic, no SPD so it won't pass EICR. In fact only the front lid is plastic, the casing is metal but even then I have not been able to find anyone to do this. I did have another person come in today to have a look and he gave a very different view. He said he would put in additional one RCD breaker in one of the spare blanks in the middle of the MCU to protect the 4 MCBs on the left and that should be fine so not sure what to make of this one. Could this work instead of the RCBO option?

 

[westward10]

Ignore the latest electrician. Checkatrade and MyBuilder are the last places I would look.

 

[Deanp35]

Where would be the best place to find an electrician who could do this? Would it be someone who is NICEIC Approved because I have had one who was and told me if its plastic, no RCBOs and EICR will not pass and SPD required. Where would be the best place to find one?

 

[grumpyjohn01]

You could move the socket circuits onto RCBOs on the mainswitch side and replace lighting / smokes with RCBO, move cooker onto Type AC RCD side (resistive load) and then have a mainswitch way left for a retro fit Surge kit. If you wanted to...

 

[Deanp35]

You could move the socket circuits onto RCBOs on the mainswitch side and replace lighting / smokes with RCBO, move cooker onto Type AC RCD side (resistive load) and then have a mainswitch way left for a retro fit Surge kit. If you wanted to...

Which surge kit would this be?

 

[brianmoooore]

Note than a SPD does not have to be inside the CU. Someone posted a link on here to a combined SPD and mains isolator, a week or so ago, that would fit nicely inside a meter cabinet, or anywhere in the tails between meter and CU.

 

[suffolkspark]

Theres room for all 6 circuits to go on the left, so just 6 rcbos thats literally all he needs to do. Leave the rcd, or take it out and blank it, makes zero difference. Electricalcompetentperson.co.uk may find you another electrician, doesnt need to be niceic. Get off checkatrade etc. Or get the one you had onto this page if youve already paid for a report. I wonder if we could see the rest of the report?

 

[grumpyjohn01]

Which surge kit would this be?

This one:

Crabtree SBT2SPD3W 1 Surge Protection Devices

Buy Crabtree SBT2SPD3W 1 Surge Protection Devices online at Shop4 Electrical & get FREE Next Day UK Delivery when you order by 2pm & spend £60

shop4electrical.co.uk

 

[littlespark]

Still unsure. Is OP the landlord or tenant of this property?


I don’t think reading the EICR is going to help…. They seem to have C2ed everything just to get an UNSATISFACTORY and force an awkward board change.

There has been suggestions on how rcbo’s can fit this board to satisfy some of it, but a non combustible cover for the board could be the sticky bit.


Fitting a new board on the surface is the only answer I can see…. That gives rcd protection where it’s needed, an SPD, non combustible materials…. Off the shelf components and straightforward. Only downside is the surface mounting.

Also, to clarify, you don’t need to use the same electrician that did the EICR to do the remedial work.

Although I did say it before, it’s unfair to suggest all electricians on mybuilder or whatever are unscrupulous… there are some good ones, I’m sure.
Word of mouth recommendations are possibly a better bet here. Are there any neighbours that have had work done recently that you could speak to for names?

 

[suffolkspark]

This one:

Crabtree SBT2SPD3W 1 Surge Protection Devices

Buy Crabtree SBT2SPD3W 1 Surge Protection Devices online at Shop4 Electrical & get FREE Next Day UK Delivery when you order by 2pm & spend £60

shop4electrical.co.uk

Good shout, so if they just get 6 rcbos to put everything on the left, pull the old rcd out to free up one more connection on that bar for that spd its all done

 

[suffolkspark]

Still unsure. Is OP the landlord or tenant of this property?


There has been suggestions on how rcbo’s can fit this board to satisfy some of it, but a non combustible cover for the board could be the sticky bit.

I read it as he's a landlord and going to be letting it.

Plastic front would only attract a C3, and thats only if its in the sole means of escape

 

[grumpyjohn01]

Good shout, so if they just get 6 rcbos to put everything on the left, pull the old rcd out to free up one more connection on that bar for that spd its all done

even better!

 

[littlespark]

Plastic front would only attract a C3, and thats only if its in the sole means of escape

i agree.... but OP has commented that plastic front is one of the reasons its unsatisfactory....


The whole report is a work of fiction, but if OP is adamant its going to be done, then a whole new non-combustible board, with spd and all that.... would be the answer.... its just going to have to be surface mounted. (OP isnt going to be living there anyway?)
Rather than spending time looking for compatible parts, long lead times.....

A reputable spark, a bit of board to cover the hole...a handful of WAGO's to extend the circuits and an all rcbo board with spd, off the shelf at whichever wholesaler is closest.... job could be done in a day.

 

[Deanp35]

Still unsure. Is OP the landlord or tenant of this property?


I don’t think reading the EICR is going to help…. They seem to have C2ed everything just to get an UNSATISFACTORY and force an awkward board change.

There has been suggestions on how rcbo’s can fit this board to satisfy some of it, but a non combustible cover for the board could be the sticky bit.


Fitting a new board on the surface is the only answer I can see…. That gives rcd protection where it’s needed, an SPD, non combustible materials…. Off the shelf components and straightforward. Only downside is the surface mounting.

Also, to clarify, you don’t need to use the same electrician that did the EICR to do the remedial work.

Although I did say it before, it’s unfair to suggest all electricians on mybuilder or whatever are unscrupulous… there are some good ones, I’m sure.
Word of mouth recommendations are possibly a better bet here. Are there any neighbours that have had work done recently that you could speak to for names?

Apologises, I am a landlord. I read somewhere that for landlords SPDs are mandatory on MCUs or on electric meters?

 

[Deanp35]

This one:

Crabtree SBT2SPD3W 1 Surge Protection Devices

Buy Crabtree SBT2SPD3W 1 Surge Protection Devices online at Shop4 Electrical & get FREE Next Day UK Delivery when you order by 2pm & spend £60

shop4electrical.co.uk

Thanks. On that link it says its not suited for dual RCD boards like mine (or split load RCDs).

 

[westward10]

For your situation SPDs are not mandatory. Be interesting to see the EICR with personal details redacted.

 

[suffolkspark]

Thanks. On that link it says its not suited for dual RCD boards like mine (or split load RCDs).

Yours isnt a dual rcd board.

 

[grumpyjohn01]

Thanks. On that link it says its not suited for dual RCD boards like mine (or split load RCDs).

Yours is split load with single RCD and the best mod as proposed by @suffolkspark would remove that effectively turning it into a Mainswitch only type board so that SPD would be fine.

 

[Deanp35]

Thanks. Had another opinion on this and whilst the RCBO option he said is doable , effectively we are altering an existing installation so it needs to comply with latest legislation so it needs new board that is metal and SPD . This applies to new installation and amendments and alterations to existing installation such as adding RCBOs to older boards he said as that is what the latest BS7671 reg says I have been advised

 

[suffolkspark]

Thanks. Had another opinion on this and whilst the RCBO option he said is doable , effectively we are altering an existing installation so it needs to comply with latest legislation so it needs new board that is metal and SPD . This applies to new installation and amendments and alterations to existing installation such as adding RCBOs to older boards he said as that is what the latest BS7671 reg says I have been advised

Incorrect.