RCD required?

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Davisss

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Hi guys,
Just a quick query here. I have just gone into a property and done a EICR. Its a rewireable fuseboard with no rcd protection on any circuits. The main house ring circuit has an occurence with a spur off a spur. Easy to rectify i know but as i am going to to re-feeding the sockets, is there any requirement for me to protect the circuit with an RCD?

Many thanks in anticipation,
Dave
 
Davisss said:
Hi guys,
Just a quick query here. I have just gone into a property and done a EICR. Its a rewireable fuseboard with no rcd protection on any circuits. The main house ring circuit has an occurence with a spur off a spur. Easy to rectify i know but as i am going to to re-feeding the sockets, is there any requirement for me to protect the circuit with an RCD?

Many thanks in anticipation,
Dave
Click to expand...
Just from what you have said, C2 for no RCD for socket outlets, C2 for multiple spurs - overload risk, C3 for No RCD for cables concealed <50mm in walls. Quote for new CU and rectify ring spurs. Nice little remedial for you.
 
Meggerman said:
Just from what you have said, C2 for no RCD for socket outlets, C2 for multiple spurs - overload risk, C3 for No RCD for cables concealed <50mm in walls. Quote for new CU and rectify ring spurs. Nice little remedial for you.
Click to expand...

why is a new CU required?

he is merely asking if any work he carries out needs RCD/RCBO protection.

Oh and sockets without RCD/RCBO protection is a C3, if it complied when installed, unless they can be used outdoors.
 
Dillb said:
why is a new CU required?

he is merely asking if any work he carries out needs RCD/RCBO protection.

Oh and sockets without RCD/RCBO protection is a C3, if it complied when installed, unless they can be used outdoors.
Click to expand...

Meggerman said:
Just from what you have said, C2 for no RCD for socket outlets, C2 for multiple spurs - overload risk, C3 for No RCD for cables concealed <50mm in walls. Quote for new CU and rectify ring spurs. Nice little remedial for you.
Click to expand...

Rephrase that to “nice little earner for you.”
 
Dillb said:
It seems to be meggermans standard response to every post about doing a job in a house without RCD protection.
Click to expand...

Ok, in complete contrast to your make do and mend philosophy, which then will get done by someone else later and they can pay again. Also as Inspector it is my discretion what I code non-compliances. Maybe you worth noting it would be reasonable to expect that any downstairs socket outlet could be used to supply equipment outside.
 
Meggerman said:
Ok, in complete contrast to your make do and mend philosophy, which then will get done by someone else later and they can pay again. Also as Inspector it is my discretion what I code non-compliances. Maybe you worth noting it would be reasonable to expect that any downstairs socket outlet could be used to supply equipment outside.
Click to expand...

Make do and mend yes, they are asking to repair a small part of the installation not change i all completely, besides installing a new DB could lead to a whole load of problems which would cost the customer even more money that they didn't need to spend.

Yes the coding is down the inspector, as I said no question was asked about coding.

Again I pointed out if the sockets could be used outdoors, please read the whole reply before replying as it just makes you look ignorant and choosing what you want too read.
 
Dillb said:
Make do and mend yes, they are asking to repair a small part of the installation not change i all completely, besides installing a new DB could lead to a whole load of problems which would cost the customer even more money that they didn't need to spend.

Yes the coding is down the inspector, as I said no question was asked about coding.

Again I pointed out if the sockets could be used outdoors, please read the whole reply before replying as it just makes you look ignorant and choosing what you want too read.[/QUOTE

I did read you post. Oh and sockets without RCD/RCBO protection is a C3, if it complied when installed, unless they can be used outdoors. . I am saying they can all be used outdoors.
Also, the guy has just carried out an EICR, this is the best time to now carry out DB replacement as he has inspected and tested installation so knows what faults are present. Why would that lead to problems?
Click to expand...
 
I would say only sockets in a room with a external door on it would be used outdoors. I have a socket on my first floor landing no external access unless you walk past several other sockets first, I also have several sockets in my kitchen which has a back door and one in my hall ways which has the front door leading outside. Now would you say the landing socket or any other socket upstairs needs RCD/RCBOprotection, if it was installed when it wasn't needed?
 
This is not a pop megger but have you somehow ordered an excessive amount of DB's by mistake because I have to agree with others that this seems to be your standard reply to every thread relating to domestic rcd threads.
I know we are all in business to make money but do you ever try to rectify a job in a cheaper way or just rip it out and start again
 
Dillb said:
I would say only sockets in a room with a external door on it would be used outdoors. I have a socket on my first floor landing no external access unless you walk past several other sockets first, I also have several sockets in my kitchen which has a back door and one in my hall ways which has the front door leading outside. Now would you say the landing socket or any other socket upstairs needs RCD/RCBOprotection, if it was installed when it wasn't needed?
Click to expand...

No, If separate circuits up and down, personally, I would only C2 downstairs sockets in a house and would C3 upstairs (5.12) as I would not reasonably expect upstairs sockets to supply equipment outside.
 
GMES said:
This is not a pop megger but have you somehow ordered an excessive amount of DB's by mistake because I have to agree with others that this seems to be your standard reply to every thread relating to domestic rcd threads.
I know we are all in business to make money but do you ever try to rectify a job in a cheaper way or just rip it out and start again
Click to expand...
Honestly, I do not have a pile of DB's in my garage I cannot shift :). I like to leave a job as safe as possible, and if I can make it safer I do. I do give them the options, (add on RCD etc) but when I explain the advantages they nearly always go for it. I am only £250 for new 5+5 DB installed, cert and registered. 90% of my work is repeat now, so I must be doing something right :).
 
I recently provided a RCD socket as part of an EICR remedial list. It was the nearest to the back door into the garden and was labelled and explained it was the dedicated socket for outdoor appliance use. This set the customer back £25. Should I have informed my 94 year old customer that a £250 CU change was the only way forward ?

To the OP... yes you need to RCD protect any socket circuit you go jiggering about with. You and your customer can discuss the best method to comply with this that is suitable for both parties.
 
Meggerman that is bloody cheap you want to be at 350.00 I would think
 
Hi guys,
Thanks for the feedback. A lot of it is down to personal opinion to be used in conjunction with the regulations. The EICR showed the installation had a clean bill of health. The zs readings were good and the I.R readings were also very good. There would be no issue at all with installing a new fuseboard.There are no spare ways on the fuseboard and the client has indicated that he will be having work doing in the future so i shall advise him that it may be prudent to get an up-to-date system now as he will definetely require one in the not too distant future.
 
Andy78 said:
I recently provided a RCD socket as part of an EICR remedial list. It was the nearest to the back door into the garden and was labelled and explained it was the dedicated socket for outdoor appliance use. This set the customer back £25. Should I have informed my 94 year old customer that a £250 CU change was the only way forward ?

To the OP... yes you need to RCD protect any socket circuit you go jiggering about with. You and your customer can discuss the best method to comply with this that is suitable for both parties.
Click to expand...

I would have given her new CU as an option, explained advantages and let her decide.
 
Meggerman said:
I would have given her new CU as an option, explained advantages and let her decide.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I did. I definitely didn't just "quote for new CU" as you first advised the OP to do in post #4 though, which is what I was getting at.
In my experience most EICR customers are looking for a cheap way to get a satisfactory report. I get most customers agreeing to CU swaps as part of larger works, such as a kitchen refits.
 
GMES said:
Meggerman that is bloody cheap you want to be at 350.00 I would think
Click to expand...
I'm happy with £250. If elderly I do them for even less sometimes. I made loads out PV couple of years back so I am happy to pass it on a bit now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Andy78 said:
Exactly what I did. I definitely didn't just "quote for new CU" as you first advised the OP to do in post #4 though, which is what I was getting at.
In my experience most EICR customers are looking for a cheap way to get a satisfactory report. I get most customers agreeing to CU swaps as part of larger works, such as a kitchen refits.
Click to expand...
I don't know your pricing or salesmanship. I can only speak from my experiences.
 
In fairness to Meggerman, I would talk the customer through the option for a 2nd board and a replacement board and give them a price for either and let them decide!
 
Jeez, providing a quote for a new cu, bringing an old install up to date, what next? Im sure thats how Genghis Khan started out… in fact didnt Hitler base his dastardly premise of world domination and genercide on cu changes for the unaware?
 
Zebra Stripe said:
Jeez, providing a quote for a new cu, bringing an old install up to date, what next? Im sure thats how Genghis Khan started out… in fact didnt Hitler base his dastardly premise of world domination and genercide on cu changes for the unaware?
Click to expand...

No Hitler just wanted to throw everyone on an island, known as the Madagascar plan, very interesting read on wikipedia.
The gas chambers were is 2nd idea.
 
GMES said:
No Hitler just wanted to throw everyone on an island, known as the Madagascar plan, very interesting read on wikipedia.
The gas chambers were is 2nd idea.
Click to expand...
told you the EU was the reincarnation of hitler. they sending everyone to an island.... the bloody UK.
 

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