Discuss Ring Final Circuit - spurs only in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
So, a ring can be just a ring of cable - in effect a busbar. Then on this cable j-boxes with spurs off that.A ring can't have more unfused spurs than it has sockets on the ring.
So if there are 10 sockets on a ring then the maximum number of unfused spurs you can have is 10.
So, a ring can be just a ring of cable - in effect a busbar. Then on this cable j-boxes with spurs off that.
You can have a ring circuit and have no socket outlets at all if you want.So, a ring can be just a ring of cable - in effect a busbar. Then on this cable j-boxes with spurs off that.
What you save on cable you probably lose more on the junction boxes.Just a thought on this. A ring with jboxes only. The jboxes supply only one socket via a cable approx 2 to 3 metres long. Big saving on cable.
You can have a ring with only j boxes if you want, and yes it's legal as you put it.If this situation arose is it legal. A ring with only jboxes is the point.
Do the junction boxes cost more than the cable you are saving?If this situation arose is it legal? A ring with only jboxes is the point. Or the actual ring cable with no sockets on it.
In #9 you stated big saving on cable.Just a thought on this. A ring with jboxes only. The jboxes supply only one socket via a cable approx 2 to 3 metres long. Big saving on cable.
Thx. So OK to have a ring with no sockets on it.If you wish to design your own non-standard circuits then you are free to do so,
The point is a ring without sockets, either with for e.g., having only jboxes or appliances hard wired on the ring. Why the jbooxes are there or why the appliance are hard wired in is not the point. It is a regs point.Why would you hard wire any appliances?
They are designed to be portable, come with a plug.
Give them a socket.
As I said earlier, extra joint boxes and time to install outweigh the cable cost saving.
What about the cost of the joint boxes or are you not going to answer that.The point is a ring without sockets, either with for e.g., having only jboxes or appliances hard wired on the ring. Why the jbooxes are there or why the appliance are hard wired in is not the point. It is a regs point.
I refer you to post 19.What about the cost of the joint boxes or are you not going to answer that.
There are plenty of ring final circuits out there which do not incorporate socket outlets.
Where are we getting. Ring final circuits without sockets outlets have been around since the advent of the ring final.I refer you to post 19.
"There are plenty of ring final circuits out there which do not incorporate socket outlets."
Getting somewhere.
Thx.Ring final circuits without sockets outlets have been around since the advent of the ring final.
The regs don’t state sockets, they will state points.
The regs concerning unfused spurs comes from the load on the spur not being too much for the cable between the ring and the point.
How that cable is joined into the ring is immaterial. Joint box, or back of another point.
That is from memory, as it’s Sunday and I can’t be bothered to look for my book.
I used to believe this too. I don't know if it was included in the 15th or 16th edition, but there's no mention of it in BS7671:2018+Amd2:2022 (at least as far as I can see).A ring can't have more unfused spurs than it has sockets on the ring.
So if there are 10 sockets on a ring then the maximum number of unfused spurs you can have is 10.
Sockets are not for permanently used appliances. They are to be plugged in and out. Permanently wired in appliance need to be hard wired. And that in theory includes a 24/7/365 fridge.
Just a thought on this. A ring with jboxes only. The jboxes supply only one socket via a cable approx 2 to 3 metres long. Big saving on cable.
Sockets are not for permanently used appliances. They are to be plugged in and out. Permanently wired in appliance need to be hard wired. And that in theory includes a 24/7/365 fridge.
So why do some manufacturers consider removal of the plug from the socket is safe isolation of the appliance when they need to carry out warranty work. Back to the old you can't cut the plug off without voiding the warranty debateSockets are not for permanently used appliances. They are to be plugged in and out. Permanently wired in appliance need to be hard wired. And that in theory includes a 24/7/365 fridge.
I used to believe this too. I don't know if it was included in the 15th or 16th edition, but there's no mention of it in BS7671:2018+Amd2:2022 (at least as far as I can see).From memory this was apart of the 16th Edition OSG at least.
The point is a ring without sockets, either with for e.g., having only jboxes or appliances hard wired on the ring. Why the jbooxes are there or why the appliance are hard wired in is not the point. It is a regs point.
So why do some manufacturers consider removal of the plug from the socket is safe isolation of the appliance when they need to carry out warranty work
A dedicated ring for only heavy appliances, hard wired in comes to mind. Sockets on a separate ring.
Whatever standard and non-standard are.And a very early answer was "yes, but it would be non-standard"
It's in the OSG, H4. Not sure I understand the reasoning behind it thoughI used to believe this too. I don't know if it was included in the 15th or 16th edition, but there's no mention of it in BS7671:2018+Amd2:2022 (at least as far as I can see).
Really that was the point I was making to the post I quoted to see what response SJW would post as a replyBecause it is a safe method of isolation, you can't get more isolated than fully disconnected.
Whatever standard and non-standard are.
Sockets are not for permanently used appliances. They are to be plugged in and out. Permanently wired in appliance need to be hard wired. And that in theory includes a 24/7/365 fridge.
Yep. Some fridges use 750 watt. That needs hard wiring.And then, when the homeowner needs a new fridge, he has to get a sparky out to disconnect the old one and reconnect the new one.
Makes perfect sense to use a plug, especially since it will come with a pre fitted one.
MF jboxes.Assuming the average ring circuit has 10 sockets on it and you save 3m of cable per socket that's a saving of 30m of cable.
At current prices that could be about £25 saved.
Depending on your preference for joint boxes they could realistically cost you £25.
Then you need to consider the additional time involved.
Other considerations are best practice, it is generally accepted that best practice is to avoid unnecessary joints in cables, every joint being a potential point of failure.
Also you need to consider maintainence and fault finding, it is going to be a lot harder to fault find a ring circuit where you can't readily get to the ring itself.
Yep. Some fridges use 750 watt. That needs hard wiring.
Manufacturers come out with all sorts of nonsense at timesSo why do some manufacturers consider removal of the plug from the socket is safe isolation of the appliance when they need to carry out warranty work. Back to the old you can't cut the plug off without voiding the warranty debate
Manufacturers come out with all sorts of nonsense at times
Yep. Some fridges use 750 watt. That needs hard wiring.
Yep. Some fridges use 750 watt. That needs hard wiring.
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