Socket Heights in New Extensions

[chloebear]

Hi All,
Do the heights of Sockets & Light Switches in a New Extension to an older property (one room) have to abide by the new regs for heights or can they be at the same height as the existing sockets etc?

 

[Mac]

I usually try and keep the sockets and switches at the same height as the old build.

 

[acat]

You should be ok leaving them at the same height as the main building part M applies to all new dwellings you have an extension to an existing dwelling.


Chris

 

[Doug]

If this project is to be inspected by the local building inspector then I would suggest that it is worth asking him first before fitting the sockets & switches outside of the disabled zones.

 

[Spudnik]

As the chaps have said, there is no requirement to install new sockets in an addition to the new, Pat M, heights.

They can match the existing installation.

 

[joe kane]

use r wrong the regulations state that the sockets have to be 450mm from ground and light switches 120mm to top.If u certify this u could get into trouble because u arnt following regulations.If u rewire a house u have to abide by the regulations at the right heights.Keep yourself right.Approved contractor

 

[Spudnik]

Joe,

All the documents state that existing installations DO NOT have to have additions installed to the new heights.

Part M generally applies to substantially refurbished and new build properties only.

To this day, I have never been pulled up on it.

 

[joe kane]

This doesnt comply with bs7671 part p.

 

[Spudnik]

This doesnt comply with bs7671 part p.

Fair enough, but have you a reg number?

Would be interested to see.

 

[joe kane]

onsite guide figure 10.7.1

 

[lister]

use r wrong the regulations state that the sockets have to be 450mm from ground and light switches 120mm to top.If u certify this u could get into trouble because u arnt following regulations.If u rewire a house u have to abide by the regulations at the right heights.Keep yourself right.Approved contractor

rubbish- who told you that, this only applies to new builds not extensions or rewires to old properties , if in doubt ring your part p sheme provider and ask them they will say same.

 

[andyb]

This doesnt comply with bs7671 part p.

There is no part p in BS 7671.

There is part 1 to 7, plus chapters and appendices.

 

[scotsparky]

Joe Kane Part P is building Regulations.

onsite guide figure 10.7.1

That figure is a direct copy from the Building regulations Hand book. It is not a regulation it is there as illustration only. If you read the text then it says where they copyed the Drawing from.

 

[dkent5]

You're splitting hairs here Joe, I'd go with Jason on this as it is not a new dwelling and the customer would prefer an asthetically pleasing installation.

 

[Des 56]

use r wrong the regulations state that the sockets have to be 450mm from ground and light switches 120mm to top.If u certify this u could get into trouble because u arnt following regulations.If u rewire a house u have to abide by the regulations at the right heights.Keep yourself right.Approved contractor

You are tending to take building regulations and interpret that advise as IEE regs

There seems to be quite a lot of confusion since domestic installations were included in the building regs,so you are not on your own with this confusion,but time will eventually assist the industry to have a clearer picture

 

[Spudnik]

onsite guide figure 10.7.1

Page number?

 

[Guest123]

use r wrong the regulations state that the sockets have to be 450mm from ground and light switches 120mm to top.If u certify this u could get into trouble because u arnt following regulations.If u rewire a house u have to abide by the regulations at the right heights.Keep yourself right.Approved contractor

A bold statement there Joe, wrong but bold.

 

[Des 56]

Looked in my on site guide and i only have figure 10.7 Insulation resistance
There is a little confusion in this debate I thinks

 

[Mac]

use r wrong the regulations state that the sockets have to be 450mm from ground and light switches 120mm to top.If u certify this u could get into trouble because u arnt following regulations.If u rewire a house u have to abide by the regulations at the right heights.Keep yourself right.Approved contractor

Extension at the end of the day,not new build.If you were wiring an extension on a kitchen you'd want to keep everything at the same height.I would personally.

 

[joe kane]

Do what u like,the current 17th wiring regulations dont give old heights for a NEW extension.If u want to put old heights in go ahead it will be ok for the 16th edition.When u certify this do u mention that u have done this to 16th edition.There has been amendments for a reason.If u also rewire a house u cant use old heights another mistake made by sparks to do with cost.As soon as you touch anything you have to do it to bs7671.The heights off the kitchen counters havnt changed only the spacing from the cooker and sink which is now 300mm and not 150mm as stated in the 16th edition.These r all stated in the 17th edition onsite guide anybody read it

 

[Guest123]

Joe,

The 17th edition has nothing to do with heights of accessories it's approved document M of the building regulations that is concerned here.

With a small one room extension the new heights are not in force it is only full new builds or extensively renovated premesis. What would be the point in making one room compliant when the entire of the rest of your house would not.

 

[joe kane]

It is not your responsibility u have to keep yourself right.I have been doing these for years.

 

[Spudnik]

Joe,

Can you quote a reg to back this up?

Im sure many members on here would be very interested to see where they may have been going wrong.

Cheers.

 

[Guest123]

I have been doing these for years.

Meaning what????? that I havn't.??
Please dont patronise me

 

[joe kane]

5.2.2 location of kitchen accessories.10.7 access to and use of buildings (approved document m)heights of switches and socket outlets iee 17thedition onsite guide.This guide also incorprates part p

 

[Guest123]

There has been amendments for a reason.If u also rewire a house u cant use old heights another mistake made by sparks to do with cost.

I'm sorry Joe but this is wrong also.

If you actually read Part M it states that and I quote" If the dwelling is rewired there is no requirement to provide the measures described providing that on completion the building is no worse in terms of compliance "

It also states that the requirements of part M do not apply to and again I quote "An extension of or a material alteration of a dwelling.

I'm not making this up Joe, I'm quoting from the electricians guide to the building regs published by the IEE, the same people that publish the regs book and On Site Guide.

 

[old dog]

joe you are quoting from the electricians guide to the building regulations.
not the on-site guide 10.7.1 read it
bs7671 iee wiring regulations
part p building regulation
approved document M read it

 

[LukeScotty]

righty, can someone ring up one of your schemes to find out the correct answer,

this is where i'm at as quoted from Part M building regulations page 12/87 http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADM_2004.pdf

it says,

Where the requirements apply

0.1 the requiremtns apply if:

a. a non-domestic building or a dwelling is newly erected;

b. an existing NON-domestic building is extended, or undergoes a material alteration; or

c. an existing building or part of an existing building undergoes a material change of use to a hotel or boarding house, institution, public buiding or shop

...............the regulations then continue onto extendsions etc, but that applys only to newly erected buildings.

check it out for yourself, with this information you can put the sockets at what ever height you want, as long as it was built before ( i dunno 2003?? is it?? ) whether its had an extension on it or not, now if it was a non-domestic dwelling getting extended on an old building, then yeah by the looks it'll need part M taken into account?

that Help any one, or am I just rabbling on 'n' on

Regards Luke

 

[Mac]

New sockets and switches should according to BS7671 and Part M of the building Regs be fixed at a height that will assist people whose reach is limited.This only applies to NEW BUILDS and DOES not apply if you are adding to EXISTING wiring in your own home or an EXTENSION.Sorry JOE.Agree with a lot of the blokes on this thread

 

[joe kane]

old dog I was instructed to buy this guide from a niceic inspector.It is a domestic building with an extension and not a new build were heights r to 17th edition.Luke scotty is right.

 

[scotsparky]

Joe did you read the guide???

 

[LukeScotty]

joe i think you've contradicted yourself here???

righty, can someone ring up one of your schemes to find out the correct answer,

this is where i'm at as quoted from Part M building regulations page 12/87 http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADM_2004.pdf

it says,

Where the requirements apply

0.1 the requiremtns apply if:

a. a non-domestic building or a dwelling is newly erected;

b. an existing NON-domestic building is extended, or undergoes a material alteration; or

c. an existing building or part of an existing building undergoes a material change of use to a hotel or boarding house, institution, public buiding or shop

...............the regulations then continue onto extendsions etc, but that applys only to newly erected buildings.

check it out for yourself, with this information you can put the sockets at what ever height you want, as long as it was built before ( i dunno 2003?? is it?? ) whether its had an extension on it or not, now if it was a non-domestic dwelling getting extended on an old building, then yeah by the looks it'll need part M taken into account?

that Help any one, or am I just rabbling on 'n' on

Regards Luke

I'm basically saying that you can put the sockets at what ever height you want, in this new extension as long as its not a new dweling

 

[old dog]

hi joe when you quoted on-site guide
there is the electricians guide to the building regulations and there is the
on-site guide bs 7671;2008
iee wiring regulations 17th edition
the guidance given in approved document M applies to all new dwellings

 

[joe kane]

I abide by new rules I have to,dont want to get into trouble.

 

[scotsparky]

There are several rules depending on situation. As a Tradesmen its your knowlege to interprete what is requiered.

 

[joe kane]

thanks for the argue lads got use all thinking dont lose any sleep ha ha

 

[old dog]

not here for an argument here to help and be helped

 

[joe kane]

u learn by listening to others tell me something I dont already know .Dont want to argue anymore oldboy

 

[LukeScotty]

its a debate, hehe, as long as it dunt turn nasty

 

[joe kane]

exactly luke scotty

 

[Spudnik]

I shall be sleeping soundly tonight, knowing full well that once again i am right.

Sorry, but i cant help being this good.

 

[joe kane]

ay right im off to bed.

 

[chloebear]

Thanks all for the input - quite a lively debate in some cases. After all the input I decided to grab the bull by the horns and get out Part M of the building regs. In here it states on page 6 (Guidance) - Where the Requirements Apply - Section 0.3 - "Extensions to Dwellings are excluded from Part M" from that I take it that the new heights etc for sockets for extensions to dwellings can remain at the same height as the rest of the house.

 

[Guest123]

Correct.

 

[Spudnik]

Glad thats sorted then.

Im not sure i could take anymore.