Stupid price for PAT testing

[Top Cat]

An old customer rang me today (tight as a ducks ---) and asked if i did PAT testing.

Yes no problem.

What do you charge?

£2.50

What, per item!!!

Yes

Well i was expecting to pay up to 50 - 60 pence at a push.

Find someone else!

 

[PC Electrics]

As I cannot compete with the large firms who simply write out green stickers for 50 pence a time (no actual testing involved), but want a minimum amount (usually at least £100 worth), I only do small scale testing for clients who have just a few items or need items testing ad hoc. I charge the time taken, after testing and repairing as necessary.

 

[highspark]

Depends how many items mate. My ex boss used to do them for a quid per item. On good days he would make upwards of 400 a day just me and him testing.

 

[oldtimer]

I charge £?? minimum for 12 items + microwave test its the only way I can cover my cost plus I cannot see me doing a lot but as I have said before I need it as a part of my services even although I dont do a lot

 

[Octopus]

I'm testing 8 items next week, for £50 - which is my minimum charge.

As above I don't do much, but comes in useful from time to time.

 

[DurhamSparky]

1 item £25 quid!!

 

[cbw]

Me too,
£40.00 min charge upto 15 Items
£2.50 for first 40 items

 

[RISElectrical]

I priced a job yesterday for 800 items. £1.80 an item, I won't get the job as someone will do it for 75p

 

[Octopus]

I priced a job yesterday for 800 items. £1.80 an item, I won't get the job as someone will do it for 75p

Would you really want to PAT test 800 items??

 

[RISElectrical]

No not at all but if I did I wouldn't do for less than £1.80.... Even that I consider low. 2 years ago I was charging £2.50 a test

I use PAT as a way of gaining more work, the 800 are at a large commercial premises so could be a foot in the door.... Even so it's still £1.80 or walk away for me.

 

[cbw]

I would do £1.40 for 800 items

 

[Octopus]

Not sure I'd want to PAT test 800 items!

 

[DurhamSparky]

did 600.... took 4 days!! devestated!

 

[D80]

I could PAT 800 items ok, the filling in of paperwork afterwards could be the killer though

 

[RISElectrical]

I have the fluke software for the paperwork, it's not too bad. Still hate it tho

 

[robsparky1975]

Ive done 1500 on a holiday camp,took 2 weeks if i remember rightly,had to take some headphones as the constant drone of the pat tester was sending me barking mad.:stuart:

 

[RISElectrical]

Firm I worked for a few years back did 32000 tests for a police force! I 'copped' for doing a month stint on it.... Hell!

 

[DurhamSparky]

32k.....!!! wow.... that like 160 days of work at 200 items a day!!

i would happily do it for 75p an item...! £24k for a half years work...! simples!

would cry at the end though! ~

 

[oldtimer]

Well if I am asked to quote for 800 I know and hope I will not get it and as I said it is their to compliment my business and so far I have had to test 6 ,12 and 4 items all at the same minimum cost and nobody batted an eye and that suits me

 

[Litttle Shonet]

We had a network cable installation team at work the other day. The boss man asked if I did PAT testing and how much. I told him £1.60 per item, no minimum. He only had 4 items (Drill battery chargers). He went to give me a tenner. I said no £5 will do. He was well made up. I asked him if he had any spare network cable and plugs. he gave me them for no charge. He must have been quoted loads for the PAT testing before he asked me.

 

[timo1]

For me it has to be at least £2 an item, the paperwork takes me ages! I dont have a fancy printer with software as it would take me ages to recover the cost and I just dont see the value in PAT testing. Good to offer as a service but no money in it IMO

 

[Adam W]

Considering most sparks seem to do PAT testing as a loss leader it makes you wonder what goes through the minds of these people who decide to retrain as a full time PAT tester.
10 items an hour, 8 working hours a day excluding travelling, at 75p per item to gain business and act as some kind of compensation because you're not competent or don't think it's your place to test fixed appliances, that's £300 a week revenue before tax and before you've even considered equipment, PL insurance, running a van, covering sickness, holiday, pension etc.

I think I'd rather just sit at home and watch the plants grow.

 

[oldtimer]

Totally agree as I have said I have spent £700 in total for basically a loss leader but as I say I need it even although I hardly use it also to be fair to the full time PAT tester they are working for a lot lower rate and yes we all know people want you to pay them money to do their PAT tests so yes same here would rather sit in the house and miss out going to the club for a few beers rather than do it for buttons.

 

[Montaigne]

First post and ready to deal with the onslaught from angry electricians

There's still plenty of money to be made in PAT testing and it is possible to make a significant income from selling at 60-70p an appliance but it's got to be approached in the right way.

First and foremost it's possible to do an average of 300 appliances a day per 8 hour shift. Sometimes a PAT tester will do less and sometimes they will do more depending on the environment.

I think the problem that a lot of people find with PAT testing is that they don't approach it with efficiency in mind. I don't mean that any of you chaps who disagree with me on the above are in any way inefficient but to make PAT testing pay you need a hyper-efficient set up in order to maximise the total number of tests a person can do. Like with sales it's a numbers game but it's a numbers game with the proviso that the engineer actually does the job properly!

So, in terms of set up I supply work to firms where their engineers are equipped with smart phones and Seaward Primetest 300's. The testers are tethered to the smart phones and the smart phones are running bespoke software. Once testing is completed the engineer signs off the job, the tester downloads the results to the smart phone and the smart phone uploads the report in it's entirety to a laptop, be this by plugging the smart phone in or through GPRS remotely.

As soon as the engineer completes the work the software automatically creates a report and invoice. There's no need for data entry or paperwork; the software does it all for you and then it's just a case of emailing the client the report.

As some of you quite rightly point out the difficulty in being a PAT tester is sourcing sufficient work. 60p - 70p a test may be a very cheap rate but it's impossible to survive on PAT testing if you're picking up only a 100 tests a week or some such. In order to be able to have a successful business in just PAT testing you need huge volumes of work in order to generate a consistent return.

If you're averaging 300 tests a day, every day, then you're looking at an average of 6000 tests a month, if you don't work early and stay late or work weekends. 6000 tests gives one engineer a turnover of between £3600 and £4200 a month minus expenses.

But then if you employ a commission only sales rep' (that would be me!) then you have no outlay for sales until you're actually provided with sales, at which point you pay AFTER the work has been completed.

So, a marriage of technology and high volume sales makes PAT testing very profitable.

I get what people say about how many tests you can do an hour but most IT equipment these days have molded plug tops so there's no need to take the plugs apart, the Seaward Primetest 300 is pre-programmed with a suite of tests for various types of appliance and the longest set of tests takes between 15-20 seconds to perform (according to Seaward's technical department). 20 seconds is a long time if you're sat waiting for it to pass. When you're using software designed for PAT testing and optimised around the PAT testing process (think test numbers automatically increasing by one, drop down menus with a favourites list for the most popular test items (VDU/CPU/IEC Lead/Extension Lead/Kettle etc) automatic generation of item locations, barcode scanners for retests) this is more than enough time to record the test data for that appliance. As the tester is battery powered and you're working from a smart-phone you can test numerous pc's whilst under a desk and so it is possible to pick up 300 appliances a day if engineers apply themselves.

The standard rate for a PAT testing engineer as an employee these days is between 25p and 35p and with minimum's to be hit before bonus is paid. A one man band selling at 60p an appliance with an employee being paid 30p an appliance and who accompanies his boss to every job i.e. the same vehicle so no extra cost for fuel means that the boss is actually earning 90p an appliance.

I'm genuinely interested in only working with firms that demonstrably do the work properly and have stopped working with several firms because they're not up to scratch. I understand how electricians dislike PAT testing because it's VERY boring, more labour intensive than being an electrician, less well paid and how you hate competing against people like me who consistently undercut you on price but all I would say is that just because a firm can significantly undercut you does not always mean that they're not doing the job properly (and believe me I agree that there is a significant amount of firms out there who aren't doing the job properly!). The latest scam I've seen is companies saying they work in line with the IEE recommendations, quoting low to be competitive then going in and doing a visual check on every piece of IT, knowing that if they're pulled up on it they can hide behind the IEE frequency recommendations.

 

[Montaigne]

There's potentially a business opportunity here for everyone. I can source PAT testing at a rate of 60p an appliance (+VAT) for a minimum of 300 appliances a day per engineer. I can have engineers go in as your firms i.e. wearing your uniforms and with your ID at these rates, provide you with electronic format reports and with an attached invoice branded as your company at the rates you charge, within 24 hours of completion of the testing. All you need do is check the results and invoice then forward to your clients. I will then arrange for you to be invoiced the actual amount at 60p an appliance (+VAT) and of course you take the rest off of the top as your fee.

In a nutshell I can take the hatred and boredom electricians have for PAT testing by sourcing it elsewhere yet you still retain your client base for PAT testing and still make a significant profit as you're still charging your £1.50 or whatever it is you charge. It also enables you to leverage the increase in efficiency and performance of these PAT testing optimised firms without any investment in actually adopting any of this yourselves. However your clients won't know any different as it will be "your" engineers carrying out the work.

I realise that some people will still disbelieve me so I'm willing to make this offer. If the above is of interest I'm happy to source a firm to carry out a demonstration for you at one of your jobs so you can see how the testing process works. Alternatively I'm sure I can arrange for any of you to accompany a company on a present job to observe how testing is done. You're all electricians so it's going to be obvious to you if the company you're observing is ripping off the customer or not doing the job properly just to get the numbers up. I'm confident that all the firms I work with are on the level, however, so don't have a problem making such an offer

 

[oldtimer]

Ok Montaigene I will have a stab at this you mention 300 tests a day so lets put this equipment side by side turn on your PAT or as it should be known your II&TEE tester now each item has to be entered into the tester ie item kettle make Swan location 1st floor model No S2315 now do the visual inspection now test it then put your label on. Now lets say you are fast ie nobody interupts you or asks you for directions remember with 300 items you have probably had to book in but anyway it has taken you a tight 5 minute for the kettle multiply this by 300 and you have 1500 minutes divided by 60 minutes or an hour and we have 25 hours now yes ? but let do it your way 300 tests over a 7 hour day that is 1.4 minutes a test remember you cannot even take a pi$$ so yes you are 100% correct you can make money on this but the only thing you are doing is kidding yourself on that you are actually doing the test because 85 seconds per appliance does not need inspector Clueso to work out what is happening ie employee on minimum wages van test equipment insurance ,labels petrol.

Now you dont say who you are and it is obvious you are not an electrician this is not a slight on you but an observation me thinks you are in sales so if you are i will point you to the current economical situation we find ourselves in was due to sales driven banks who actually forgot what hey were meant to do it was all about fudging figures to feed the hungry sales monster that lurked in the corner I need not remind you of the PPL insurance or endownment policy debacles I could go on the only prblem with sales is it is empire building by any other name and the first thing you should realise is that it is in their nature that all empires eventually collapse.

Also the reason why this trade is on its knees is because we have sales driven Scheme Providors that want to bag members fees a sell them documentation and T shirts and courses so they can sell some more so my advice for you would be go out and buy a copy of Hans Christen Andersons the tale of the Golden Goose and after reading it if you still dont understand what it means well go bother some other forum because we have had enough of whatwe refer as "Drive By" PAT testing and EICRs where it does not take an idiot to know its not getting done by the book and that the Scheme Providors turn a blind eye to funny enough the same way the FSA dealt with the banks.

You may also want to read my post on changes within PAT testing sorry I meant to say II&TEE as it should be you will find the Schemies are having to tweeak it as it looks like they and the 50p PAT test companies are getting caught out funny enough did the banks not move and relabel their toxic trailer trash CDO loans off their accounting sheets so no matter how you look at it even a guy on minimum wage is going to realise he aint getting paid enough to take this $hit so he will just enter the details and slap a sticker on

 

[Montaigne]

LOL

What is it with people in forums that they can't be civil? I made a genuine post and you've replied with insults, sarcasm, patronising comments and going completely off tangent discussing collateralised debt obligations and securities/derivatives trading!

but an observation me thinks you are in sales so if you are i will point you to the current economical situation we find ourselves in was due to sales driven banks who actually forgot what hey were meant to do it was all about fudging figures to feed the hungry sales monster that lurked in the corner

Yes, I mentioned that I was in sales in my first post.

Secondly I would be interested in seeing how the business world actually fared if you removed all sales people!

Also the reason why this trade is on its knees

It's not on it's knees. It's just that the market is saturated, which means supply far outstrips demand and so the market is exceptionally competitive. This essentially creates a price war where those that are used to overcharging customers when there was no competition complain that the industry is going to the dogs because they can't charge the ridiculous fees they used to.

so my advice for you would be go out and buy a copy of Hans Christen Andersons the tale of the Golden Goose and after reading it if you still dont understand what it means well go bother some other forum because we have had enough of whatwe refer as "Drive By" PAT testing and EICRs where it does not take an idiot to know its not getting done by the book and that the Scheme Providors turn a blind eye to funny enough the same way the FSA dealt with the banks.

mate, grow up! It's clear you have a massive chip on your shoulder but there's no need to act like a jerk simply because I offered up a reasonable opinion that happens to differ to your world view.

 

[Octopus]

There's potentially a business opportunity here for everyone. I can source PAT testing at a rate of 60p an appliance (+VAT) for a minimum of 300 appliances a day per engineer.

So working on an 8 hour day thats about one item every 96 seconds.

All I can say is god help the poor mug doing that day in day out.

Also the tone of your post suggests you are looking for customers - the mods and Dan take a very dim view people trying to advertise without paying.

 

[Montaigne]

Nope, I have plenty of customers. I really don't need to pick them up from random forums and that's why I split my post so that if it was considered a breach of forums rules the second one could be deleted and the main thrust of my argument would remain.

The point I was trying to make was that just because people can't see how to make a profit themselves does not mean that it is impossible. Rather than simply disagree with the post I attempted to demonstrate why I felt it was inaccurate and the offer to prove it was, I felt, really the only way to ultimately prove the matter.

Instead of a good discussion I immediately got grief. No matter. I'll leave you chaps to continue grumbling about how little work you have.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Nope, I have plenty of customers. I really don't need to pick them up from random forums and that's why I split my post so that if it was considered a breach of forums rules the second one could be deleted and the main thrust of my argument would remain.

The point I was trying to make was that just because people can't see how to make a profit themselves does not mean that it is impossible. Rather than simply disagree with the post I attempted to demonstrate why I felt it was inaccurate and the offer to prove it was, I felt, really the only way to ultimately prove the matter.

Instead of a good discussion I immediately got grief. No matter. I'll leave you chaps to continue grumbling about how little work you have.

i am sure you will do just fine with "plenty of customers".....
1) you can always say too much about your current state
2) after reading these posts of yours i am left in no doubt that your looking for potential PAT opperatives to add to your books
3) as Murdoch in #28
4) please dont try kidding people in here that the amount of items tested per day that you`v quoted can be acheaved....you are not considering having to move furniture/office equipment about to gain access
5) you refer to moulded BS1363 type plugtops....so does this mean that ALL equipment encountered will be fitted with these.....i think not...
6) initial outlay.......the cost of some of the more advanced PAT testers is considerable.....thats before we get to software..special phones and all the rest of it.....this is a stumbling block for many electricians that simply cant justify the expense of all this without realising immediate returns
7) competition.....from 1 day wonders to experienced PAT testers....theres just too many of em...
8)anyone involved in "fixed installations" is not goin to as they see it drop down a level to become a PAT tester...i`m sorry, but it just aint gonna happen
9)you mentioned about how you split your post in #29......this is a sales ploy....like a two pronged stab in order to gain a bit more air time for yourself.....there a place for this kind of pressure selling....its called ebay...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Guild of pat testers?...hmm...

 

[ohreally]

I supply work to firms where their engineers are equipped with smart phones and Seaward Primetest 300's.

If you're averaging 300 tests a day, every day, then you're looking at an average of 6000 tests a month

Thats a lot of class 1 tests being completed with a battery powered instrument not capable of testing cpc's with a high current! And you're content for this to be common practice simply due to testing being a numbers game?

(i'm not implying all tests will be class1).

 

[Adam W]

Sorry if I'm not sugar-coating it enough but this just sounds like outsourcing PAT work, ultimately to a semi-skilled person on minimum wage who wouldn't be able to do the 'while you're here' jobs or even test fixed equipment, which is one of the reasons electricians get PAT work in the first place; you'd still have to send an electrician to do the piddly little electrical jobs and test the fixed equipment and 'difficult stuff' who would have a lower average 'test per hour' count and involve a separate journey. In other words this would simply be 'fudging the figures'.

Montaigne it seems you weren't adequately prepared to deal with the onslaught from angry electricians

 

[Des 56]

Nope, I have plenty of customers. I really don't need to pick them up from random forums and that's why I split my post so that if it was considered a breach of forums rules the second one could be deleted and the main thrust of my argument would remain.

The point I was trying to make was that just because people can't see how to make a profit themselves does not mean that it is impossible. Rather than simply disagree with the post I attempted to demonstrate why I felt it was inaccurate and the offer to prove it was, I felt, really the only way to ultimately prove the matter.

Instead of a good discussion I immediately got grief. No matter. I'll leave you chaps to continue grumbling about how little work you have.

I read your summary and you miss a few essential points

You look at things 100 per cent profit driven
That is not a universal attitude amongst electricians

You are effectively a non productiive person in the electrical industry
I would say Leech,but that would be rude, so I wont

You do not equate morals and integrity with doing a job correctly and by a correct person doing it
Your viewpoint and attitude is typical of that which has prevailed over this industry for the last few years
This annoys those of us that were involved in the industry at a time when there "was" a touch of honesty and competence that could be demonstrated

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Sorry if I'm not sugar-coating it enough but this just sounds like outsourcing PAT work, ultimately to a semi-skilled person on minimum wage who wouldn't be able to do the 'while you're here' jobs or even test fixed equipment, which is one of the reasons electricians get PAT work in the first place; you'd still have to send an electrician to do the piddly little electrical jobs and test the fixed equipment and 'difficult stuff' who would have a lower average 'test per hour' count and involve a separate journey. In other words this would simply be 'fudging the figures'.

Montaigne it seems you weren't adequately prepared to deal with the onslaught from angry electricians

thats exactly what it is Adam.....just a guy touting for gullable people who will end up doing all the work....while this character just sits there behind his computer screen watchin the cash come in....unfortunately he will probably be successful in his aims....

 

[Adam W]

he will probably be successful in his aims....

I doubt it. Electrical contractors have been subbying out work they don't want to do for years. You don't need a salesman to tell you to do that, you can do it with a phone and a yellow pages, or a computer.

 

[Montaigne]

Wow, no wonder tradespeople have a bad reputation if you guys are anything to go by.

Apparently selling PAT testing at £3 an appliance at 200 tests a day to earn £600 a day or £156,000 a year for a job that takes 1 day to get the qualification is clearly an admirable trait in a tradesperson. Thank you all for illustrating that it is the 70p a test people who are really ripping people off and not you chaps who just want to earn a living!

AdamW I think I made the mistake of thinking that people in this forum were reasonable individuals, not obnoxious dinosaurs railing against the mean competition preventing them from exploiting their customers by generating something called competition. No matter, you guys keep putting those prices high and I'll keep undercutting you. Did I mention that I also sell services for electricians and undercut for those services too? Wow, what a waste of space this forum is LOL.

I've been doing this for 10 years but from the ages of some of you guys on here I guess a decade in business is still a flash in the pan Have fun raging against evil sales people and competitive PAT testing companies who are more successful than you but I bid you adieu!

 

[Plonker 3]

Montaigne, I think you will find it is not possible to "PROPERLY" carry out all the relevant checks on 200 appliances a day, so your figure of how much can be earnt at those figures is just pie in the sky.

 

[ipf]

Paying peanuts to monkeys, qualified in one day. Says it all.

 

[oldtimer]

Montaigne Grow up ! well at 53 your the first to say that and as for a chip on my shoulder well I will just leave that to run off somewhere now let me get this right you are probably 25 in sales you probably think you are master of the universe because you think your charm and a good sales pitch is all you need now thats what i was trying to point out I have seen ,met and can even smell guys like you from 100 yards or metres if you want to go metric you are all the same PAT testing today baked beans tomorrow. The only problem I have is was it your **** or your vanity that drove into this forum ? Well from this old timer the majority of guy like you its vanity the only thing is when you get to 35 you will be reaching for the Just For Men to keep those grey hairs away and you can put it beside all the other lotions you already have because as they say "Your Worth It" and then when you get to 40 you will want to cap your teeth because dont look behind you because you will see guy just like yourself sneaking up behind you and of courss that when you stop telling people how old you are get a new young girlfriend to complete the deal still when you get to 50 your body and your head will try and tell you dont go for that face tuck because people are already giggling behind your back with the dark brown hair thats if you have any left by then Yep I have met you before in many guises but the outcome is still the same.

But I will leave you with this I did a bit a geneology years ago and a guy like you was breaking our as you say BALLS big time and all we got was put downs and narkie remarks about us all getting old so I got into a discussion with this master of the universe and pulled him into a plantroom where I told him if he did not stop this vanity trip that I would go down to RegisterHouse in Edinburgh and print off his birth certificate then photocopy it and put it all over the walls yep he went white as a sheet because the chip was on his shoulder and why am i telling you this well I would like to think you could find a bit humility inside you but hell whilst your reading this with your designer beer in your hand do me a favor and glance over to your skin products O and forget the Golden Goose no need for that

PS after reading this please dont throw your bottle of beer against the wall think of it as a good way of getting your skin a bit thicker

 

[Guest123]

Parting shots have been fired.

Thread closed.