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Thank you scheme providers. You are destroying a once respected trade.

Discuss Thank you scheme providers. You are destroying a once respected trade. in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

B

baldsparkies

Since the introduction of part P I have observed with complete dismay an influx of under qualified, so called electricians.
The country, like others, is struggling through a recession.
Many of the bigger electrical contractors are going under.
Many other types of trade are also suffering.
The result is a huge group of under qualified x employees, with a redundancy wedge in there back pockets.
They come from many backgrounds, and the rich and easy pickings of a once respected trade, draws them like moths to a flame.
All they need is to buy a cheap van and set themselves up as one man bands.
A quick wonder course, and a very basic assesment by a scheme provider gives them a nice label to stick on that van.
The general public have no idea about the individuals experience, qualifications, or level of competants.
A defined scope person can take full advantage of people, there homes, even commercial work, with no more than there membership into the scheme, and a little BS.
And the current system with its money generating schemes just makes the situation worse.
In all of 40 years in the trade. I have NEVER seen so many electricians vans on the roads of Britain.
The only sanity amongst this is the JIB scheme. Offering recognition and identification of your level of experience and qualifications.
But how many people will know about, or ask to see such a card ??
Our industry is a mess.
Part P and the scheme providers have I.M.H.O. done little to clean up our industry.
In fact the cash cow they have created has actually left the whole sorry situation in a real mess.
As I aproach retirement. I feel so very sad, that the name Qualified Electrican stands for very little these days.
Because those who are qualified, are being plowed under by non competant people.
Who have been allowed to jump on the band wagon, for nothing more than make a quick buck.
Sad !! Very very sad.:sad_smile:
 
Insurance.

They want a scam member …………………

Read in to that what you will, but god help the bloody idiot that walks through my door.

Talk to them a lot of these insurance companies back down done work on many occasions where I produced qualifications to prove I was qualified to do the work while not being a member of their preferred scam. Over the years I've found they don't like the confrontation and being questioned about their choice
 
Talk to them a lot of these insurance companies back down done work on many occasions where I produced qualifications to prove I was qualified to do the work while not being a member of their preferred scam. Over the years I've found they don't like the confrontation and being questioned about their choice


Yep agree, any time I ever questioned it, it evaporated
 
and whilst were on the subject of the industry descending into chaos check out this bucket of shyte I got called out to today:

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chuffin idiot that did this decided RCDs didn`t feature in his world....so pushed em to one side...
theres a neutral-earth fault on one of the lighting circuits...so i will see to that in the morning
the bloody smokes havn`t been wired rite either....there not linked for a start and i think they`v been crossed n all...i`l get a better look at them in the morning...
first port of call was a Ze...0.11 on a TN-C-S.....so happy enough with that..
then make a start getting that board compliant:

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and here`s how he thinks you clip cables:

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So the year is 1972. You are working for a large engineering company who have there own electrical department.
They take you on as an apprentice and you work along side time served qualified electricians, who are many years your senior.
You attend day release at college and cover a C&G 236 three year course in electrical intallations. At the end of that time you have covered a wealth of practical experience, mainly by men you respect, and know the trade profficiently.
You decide to attend the C certificate course two evenings a week for a further two years and recieve technicians status.
Later in life other courses come up 16th edition, 17th edition, and then theres the 2391.
As a JIB member you apply for and recieve the JIB gold card at approved status.
And then theres your schem providor saying your the qualifying officer.
Your responsibilities through the years have also resulted in a JIB platinum sight managers card.
40 years later, and you your asking yourself what was it all about ??
Because after all that your not a Part P electrician.
Just sharing where and what I am. And wondering even now what makes these guys qualified ???????????

Like you I started as an apprentice in a large company. Quarrying was a rough and ready industry but strict! In addition to the IEE regulations we had the M&Q regulations to contend with.

The JIB played no part in our progression. When I started it was a closed shop, the union was the arbiter in everything.

I served my time with some excellent trades men and teachers. If I needed something for my IETB log book, the company would find it. If it meant going to another works so be it, pack you’re bags and off you went.

Out of you're time you went on shift with “Jim” as you’re partner. He was a HGV electrician.
The engineer said when he handed over my papers to my father “he’s going to start learning now.”
He wasn’t bloody joking, Jim was a lovely guy. Great on the wagon fleet, no help on a plant fault where we were “it” out of the day shift hours.

Did I learn? I had to fast! It was the steepest learning curve ever.
No amount of tutoring by the “old hands” during you’re apprenticeship prepared you for the foul tempered plant manager. I dropped lucky, one of the plant managers took me under his wing to teach me process engineering.

New apprentices were getting few and far between, but I was made an approved trainer a few years out of my time.
The best thing ever, an apprentice makes you think even more. I was then looking for the “phase tests” for their log book.

The company sent me to learn HV cable jointing with the then MEB, HV system management came next.
I got a reputation on the heavy power side of things so got roped in to contract management. Followed by engineering planning.

Being a good faithful servant of the company.
I cleared off in to production management in the food industry. That didn’t last long, despite studying man management I can fall out with myself. I’d got several couples on my shift, on a good week I would be splitting up fights between couples of various types several times.
Sod this I’m off!

That’s how I found myself in the iron industry. There I got hijacked in to R&D and the fun and games started.
I had to learn PLC programming flying by the seat of my pants.
With the able assistance of a production engineer we caused chaos, all with the blessing of the company.
Finally I went back in to engineering planning.

40 years of being blown up, knocked out and getting kicked up the arse.
Do I regret it?
What do you think?

I’m now retired even though I’d rather not be.

Don’t think I’ve ever stopped learning at any point.
 
well anyway...a quick report back from that mess...
gets in there today to find the owner`s `worker` in there....he tells me the electrical nonsense was down to:
yerp you guessed it....mr poland.
so anyways...after i had spent over 3 hours sortin out yarric`s mess..i then overheard a heated argument going on in the front room upstairs....turns out the owner didn`t like the price Delroy was giving him for the remedial work he had agreed to us carrying out..including:

sorting out yarric`s total abortion of a dis-board...

replacing all the twin in yarric`s trunking with 3 core for the smokes....as yarric had just seen fit to use the CPC as his link wire...

upgrade the main bonding as yarric didn`t think there was anything wrong with the existing corroded and undersized G/Y...

making good the several appaling attempts at a joint box that yarric left us with...

locating and carrying out remedial work to the neutral-earth fault that yarric tried to hide...

so as it turns out the price that delroy had given the owner was initially OK...but as the work progressed smoothly all of a sudden it was more than the man thought he should pay...
now, i dont go on much about pricing in here but this guy was attempting to take the pis...

so after much heated discussion (all of which was going on in the front room above the cellar where i was working in)....the conclusion was to return it all back to how yarric thought it should be done...

method here:
dont work for crappy customers....they are often just as bad as the yarric`s of this world...

I did however make sure all the CPCs were left in the earth bar, the bonding was present & intact and there was a good earth....
 
The reason for the heated discussion was the owner was angry with himself and for looking like a fool and yep Yarrick & Darrick have a lot to answer for I got called out twice by them their spark had a neon screwdriver and there's me standing with a voltage pen, a voltage tester, a multimeter, a amp probe and a 1553 and as he put his hand out towards my 1553 I barked NO touchy touchy . The other one was you are the 3rd electrician we have had in the other two said the mains cable is not big enough can you tell us what to do . I said no but I can tell you where to go and anyway you don't need little old me to confirm what the last 2 told you . So now I just dingy them
 
Glenn,
I hate that trunking on the smokes. Looks like the house is being 'refurbed' (very loose useage of the word), why couldn't they have run the cables properly?
Having said that, it made your job of rewiring it a lot easier!
 
well....before we got goin this morning we went to the wholesalers who knew this fella
said he kept buggin sparkys in there for advice on how to do this, that and`t other...
quite well known for it actually

this guy had his `worker` goin round upstairs cutting out patterns in lining paper to repair torn sections in the walls...lol...
there were loads of `snippits` everyware where he`d been...lol..
the man is going to rent this out....so i`m keeping that address....and when he has started renting it...(and i`ll know when he does)......then i`m goin to shop this tw&t...
caus that install won`t comply...i just know it...
it isn`t over isn`t this one...
i`m not working for neigh on 4 hours for nowt (i could hardly take money from Del could I when he hadn`t earned owt today)....
 
Glenn,
I hate that trunking on the smokes. Looks like the house is being 'refurbed' (very loose useage of the word), why couldn't they have run the cables properly?
Having said that, it made your job of rewiring it a lot easier!
didn`t get that far with it archy....
but Del n I had been looking upstairs yesterday when I took the pics....plenty of boards had been up....so there was no excuse for that crap....
 
Thing is, they look at the money; you are the only one thinking about the value!
well...i`m sick of these tite arsed landlords...
i mean just the other day we had to argue the ---- with 3 brothers who run a garage...they have some properties between em up harehills in Leeds....
now, i`v done quite a bit on these houses up there.....most of em are wired to the 15th...but have had board upgrades....some to the 16th...others on the current ed....
anyway...these guys were arguin over 20 measly quid......
i mean who the hell wants all that hassle....not me i can tell you....
they got a good price as it was....it`s just relentless....
 
Another true story for you guys. Relates to our euro friends.
Several years back we had a contract sub contracting through an electrical consultancy firm.
It was to fit out new build on a well known german chain of stores.
I remember when the German top brass turned up. We got away with a modest snagging list (Unlike some of the other trades)
A) The emergency fittings in the offices had green led's the main store and warehouse had red. They wanted them all the same colour.
B) Some of the lights were supplied by Tamalite CEF. The union jack labels had to be removed from every single fitting (I kid you not)
Anyway, I digress.
We lost the contract due to being way undercut on price. Profit margin was cut to the bone, and we had a spec to work to, so hands were tied.
A polish electrical contractor won the follow up tender, so bye bye. Or so we thought.
We were called back to several stores because the circuit details on the composite panel did not match up with the circuits they were supposed to control.
A two stage lighting arrangement was also used and contoled from a lighting management panel giving 60 percent less light during non trading times. Plus a modem link up was used so that the lights could be contolled from there head office.
All the above was messed up.
Power circuits were tripping out (they had been connected to lighting circuits) and vise versa.
It was a mess. And to top it all. The spec called for tray work, conduit installs with trunking (all in galv) and armoured cables to feeb lighting track bus bars.
The polish guys had wired the whole install in flexi armour. And it was chucked across the ceiling void in all directions.
I kid you not, a spaghetti bolognese is more tidy.
We sorted it out, but the crazy thing was the polish mob had all gone back home packed and paid.
No wonder they undercut our tender.
Crazy !!!
 

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