Currently reading:
The use of plastic wall plugs for the 18th....

Discuss The use of plastic wall plugs for the 18th.... in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Spoon

-
Mentor
Esteemed
Arms
Reaction score
7,251
I was just reading an interesting post about the 18th when the above was mentioned. there seems some debate about this. I initially thought that the idea of prohibiting the use of them was stupid, but I'm not sure now.

upload_2018-7-12_12-27-4.png


http://www.swaonline.co.uk/files/ww/Install Protect _ ComplyFull Document.pdf

These walldog screws look like they could strip the hole easily in some cases.
 
Agree plastic plugs are as useful as a chocolate teapot in a fire, but domestic work would not suffer as plasterboard is adequate when they are run above the ceiling.
There was a debate about cables fixed to walls whether they are ok, whether they are fine because the forces are not pulling the screw out.
 
Agree plastic plugs are as useful as a chocolate teapot in a fire, but domestic work would not suffer as plasterboard is adequate when they are run above the ceiling.
There was a debate about cables fixed to walls whether they are ok, whether they are fine because the forces are not pulling the screw out.
Good point John. Fixing to concrete ceilings, without suspended, is vastly different to walls. However, the number of thousands of pyro clips I've fixed to boiler house ceilings or in blocks of flats, for that matter, using plastic plugs and black japs or brass screws, must have some bearing.
I feel it's going way over the top, to tell the truth.
 
I feel it's going way over the top, to tell the truth.
Fair enough, but that's exactly why we have scientific process. It allows us to prove what will happen rather than just use intuition. If you know about cognitive bias (look it up) there are a lot of things which are obvious but not actually true.
I'd be happy to debate how proportional it is, maybe that's what you're getting at, and maybe we value firefighters lives too highly according to some opinions (how many millions will the new reg cost? Compare with other things we can do with that money to save lives?)
 
Fair enough, but that's exactly why we have scientific process. It allows us to prove what will happen rather than just use intuition. If you know about cognitive bias (look it up) there are a lot of things which are obvious but not actually true.
I'd be happy to debate how proportional it is, maybe that's what you're getting at, and maybe we value firefighters lives too highly according to some opinions (how many millions will the new reg cost? Compare with other things we can do with that money to save lives?)
Is it one method of coming to a conclusion or making a decision......like throwing pros and cons in pc and seeing what the results bring?....a method of reasoning with statistics , maybe.
 
But they have done tests on this. See the links in the original post and post #12.
 
Is it one method of coming to a conclusion or making a decision......like throwing pros and cons in pc and seeing what the results bring?....a method of reasoning with statistics , maybe.
No it's simply working out the question (do plastic plugs fail in a normal house fire before the fire brigade would have done their bit) then making a repeatable process to check what the answer is based on knowing time periods and temperatures and building materials used. That's been done now.
Then there's all the questions about how much would it cost to implement and whether there are other things we could do costing less and having bigger benefits. And also comparing the cost to implement with the notional value of the lives it saves. We value lives very highly in the UK, so things can often seem to be overkill.
 
Does anyone know how Fire1 and Fire2 were temps and durations were picked? Are they part of an accredited test programme based on observations of actual fires etc?
I agree that anything plastic is unlikely to provide much mechanical support when exposed to 400C :).
 
I think it’s worth noting that for containment such as steel conduit and trunking it is normally not just fixed to the ceiling but passes over/through walls and drops down walls to sockets etc. This in itself will often be enough to hold the whole lot up once the rawlplugs in the ceiling have failed.
 
It's not ceilings and Air-Con pipework that collapsed and entangled a in a fire fighters resulting in him dying entangled in wiring outside the door of a flat which was on fire.
His body was found with melted plastic on his gloves, so can you imagine what went through that poor mans mind as he lay there dying when he went in to save peoples lives?
He ran out of air so suffocated as well as the "injury" due to the fire.
A horrendous scenario that must never be allowed to happen again.
However, do not let the scare mongers start publishing things that are not in accordance with official guidance.
The IET are not allowed to provide guidance on the requirements of BS 7671 it is prohibited by BS 0.
 
I agree, but my point is that there are other people work that could also lead to unecessary deaths im a similar fashion, yet as usual its a case of waiting for it too happen before trying to prevent it happening again.
 
Firefighters now do have wirecutters attached to the BA sets and entanglement training given here in suffolk, so they did alter stuff that end aswell.... nice cutters too :) i left a couple of years ago now though but ended up cutting through the cord that attached them to the set a few times:D
 

Reply to The use of plastic wall plugs for the 18th.... in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

YOUR Unread Posts

This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by untold.media Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock