Trade Skils 4 U

[Redvanman]

This is the quality of the workmanship that these courses say that are good enough to rewireable a house with.
Not sure how slashing accessories onto a board gives you the experience to run cables in the fabrication of a house
I would like some one whose done this type of course to give they experience of their first job they completed

 

[uksparks]

It would be nice to know what happened to all the people who did these courses to catch up on what they are doing now.

 

[PEG]

It would be nice to know what happened to all the people who did these courses to catch up on what they are doing now.

..."Paint brushes are on aisle 8...have a nice day..." :joker:

 

[uksparks]

You are probably right

 

[Engineer54]

Problem with your photo, can't see it...

 

[Knobhead]

This is the quality of the workmanship that these courses say that are good enough to rewireable a house with.
Not sure how slashing accessories onto a board gives you the experience to run cables in the fabrication of a house
I would like some one whose done this type of course to give they experience of their first job they completed

You’re not the only one that’s bothered about this.

OK the newly “qualified” domestic installer may grasp how a circuit works. Mrs. Brown isn’t going to be happy with a cable neatly clipped down her lounge wall to a surface mounted switch.

Of the few houses I’ve rewired the first was my own. I was an M&Q electrician, I’d never chased a wall in my life. It was a steep learning curve. Making good afterwards was hilarious, more plaster on the floor than in the chase. Sinking boxes it’s a wonder I didn’t demolish the wall. I spent no end of time repairing the damage I’d done.

So how is our wet behind the ears newly “qualified” domestic installer going to cope with real life?

I dread to think of the chaos he’ll cause when he has to sort a fault out. If it’s on an install he’s done he’ll know where every thing is. What will he do with an existing installation done to a previous edition of BS7671?

 

[Redvanman]

Problem with your photo, can't see it...

Dont understand why the photo didn't come up, it was there when I posted it
I will try and have another go later but Tony got it right.
what really amazed me was the fact that Nic and Eca have a fast track system for them plus a discount off the cost of joining
Now im not a NIC hater or even a Part P hater but how can these organisations expect to be given respect when they do things like this
As a foot note to Tony's experiences when I was much younger I came across a 3 inch wall for the first time and couldn't understand why I kepted drilling through it
Id hate to think of the damage these guys could end up doing but I do not blame them they really have been sold a pup
Now if the qualifications stated that they had to work along side a qualified electrician for at least 2 yrs before going out on there own then I'd respect them

 

[TJ Anderson]

I came across a 3 inch wall for the first time and couldn't understand why I kept drilling through it

I can't understand either to be honest boss

 

[uksparks]

Whats a 3" wall? a single brick I presume you mean? or do you mean a 9" brick wall?

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Dont understand why the photo didn't come up, it was there when I posted it
I will try and have another go later but Tony got it right.
what really amazed me was the fact that Nic and Eca have a fast track system for them plus a discount off the cost of joining
Now im not a NIC hater or even a Part P hater but how can these organisations expect to be given respect when they do things like this
As a foot note to Tony's experiences when I was much younger I came across a 3 inch wall for the first time and couldn't understand why I kepted drilling through it
Id hate to think of the damage these guys could end up doing but I do not blame them they really have been sold a pup
Now if the qualifications stated that they had to work along side a qualified electrician for at least 2 yrs before going out on there own then I'd respect them

they don't expect it, or care. All they care about is dollar. Not even bothered about safety.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Whats a 3" wall? a single brick I presume you mean? or do you mean a 9" brick wall?

Just a wall 3" (75mm) deep plus render & plaster. Majority are 4" (100mm)deep. Ours at home our 3" dense internal and outside walls inner leaf are 5" thermals.

 

[Anthony S]

3 inch is normally clinker cr*p block

 

[TJ Anderson]

3 inch is normally clinker cr*p block

Yeah it is . It is not too bad if they have rendered it quite heavy before skimming.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Yeah it is . It is not too bad if they have rendered it quite heavy before skimming.

Arghhhh awful stuff, can't chase it, can't even drill without the wall.....falling down. Seen some where I'm sure the dot and dab either side is just holding all the crumbs of clinker in.....

 

[uksparks]

I hung a 49" Tv on the wall the other day, very nice LG flat thing ultra high definition 4k thing, cost quite a lot of money, the bracket was just a single rail, I put five 120mm x 12mm wall bolts in as didn't want it falling off LOL.

I i drilled through straight into the cavity between them and the neighbour.

 

[Anthony S]

Arghhhh awful stuff, can't chase it, can't even drill without the wall.....falling down. Seen some where I'm sure the dot and dab either side is just holding all the crumbs of clinker in.....

What you about ? you run a decent chaser down it first (with your extractor attached) then chip it out with a small sds multi straight into a rubber bucket and clear up as you go along.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

:ack2:

What you about ? you run a decent chaser down it first (with your extractor attached) then chip it out with a small sds multi straight into a rubber bucket and clear up as you go along.

Not the house I'm talking about:ack2:

it was like french toast

 

[Anthony S]

:ack2:


Not the house I'm talking about:ack2:

it was like french toast

Mad knocking a property about that sound's as though its got structural issues if the walls were load bearing.

 

[davesparks]

Whats a 3" wall? a single brick I presume you mean? or do you mean a 9" brick wall?

I think he means 2" walls, they are built from blocks which are only 2" thick

 

[Sparkly]

It would be nice to know what happened to all the people who did these courses to catch up on what they are doing now.

Yes, it would be good to know more about this course . The course is essential to move forward but in my opinion experience is what what matter the most

 

[PEG]

Dont understand why the photo didn't come up, it was there when I posted it
I will try and have another go later but Tony got it right.
what really amazed me was the fact that Nic and Eca have a fast track system for them plus a discount off the cost of joining
Now im not a NIC hater or even a Part P hater but how can these organisations expect to be given respect when they do things like this
As a foot note to Tony's experiences when I was much younger I came across a 3 inch wall for the first time and couldn't understand why I kepted drilling through it
Id hate to think of the damage these guys could end up doing but I do not blame them they really have been sold a pup
Now if the qualifications stated that they had to work along side a qualified electrician for at least 2 yrs before going out on there own then I'd respect them

I reckon it was a pre 50's gaff,where a lot of the dividing walls were built with "brick on edge",braced with varying timbers,stitched to door linings,purlin props and reveal timbers.

These were thrown up very quickly,using up as much waste commons etc as possible,not always tied to main internal walls,and gobbed up with a large infill of lime mortar.

Raking out for back-boxes can become a job in two rooms :conehead: ...and chasing out for cables should be limited to a scrape of the actual brickwork,as any deeper could get wobbly,later.

Without a doubt,the one thing that has helped me the most,over the years,with work on older properties,is the shed load of demolition i did as a youngster.

I'd bet my best anvil,that a good butcher would make a good surgeon...:icon12:

 

[The Electrician]

Organisations like this should be made illegal. People should have to complete an apprenticeship with Level 3 NVQ before even being allowed to do electrical work.

Not only that, but to me, the name "Trade Skills 4 U" or anything with "4 U" in, screams out Mickey Mouse Company.

 

[Engineer54]

Yes, it would be good to know more about this course . The course is essential to move forward but in my opinion experience is what what matter the most

Eh, ...exactly what essential course are you talking about??

 

[bf03yvd]

I'm currently doing something similar - tradesgateway. Don't know if its the same thing ? But, i'm reading conflicting stories about it. I've come this far with it now. Its like reaching an orgasm - too late to pull out now.

 

[Jonspark]

Organisations like this should be made illegal. People should have to complete an apprenticeship with Level 3 NVQ before even being allowed to do electrical work.

Not only that, but to me, the name "Trade Skills 4 U" or anything with "4 U" in, screams out Mickey Mouse Company.

Well, phones 4 U have gone bust.....

 

[Redvanman]

Sorry battery went flat last night
Round my way there are loads of 3" walls. Basically blocks that are 3" rather than 4" so if you chase in a 35mm back box or God forbid a 47"" then you've got bugger all behind it when you drill and fix.
When I had a few guys working for me some time back we rewired a house just inside London and that had 2" blocks.
First double socket went straight through when chasing, my guy phone me to tell me he'd made a letter box between the lounge and bedroom.
After that all chasing was done by hand and very carefully.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Sorry battery went flat last night
Round my way there are loads of 3" walls. Basically blocks that are 3" rather than 4" so if you chase in a 35mm back box or God forbid a 47"" then you've got bugger all behind it when you drill and fix.
When I had a few guys working for me some time back we rewired a house just inside London and that had 2" blocks.
First double socket went straight through when chasing, my guy phone me to tell me he'd made a letter box between the lounge and bedroom.
After that all chasing was done by hand and very carefully.

There is loads of it where I live. It is experience that counts here. I have done so many flush rewires I feel more akin to a miner sometimes lol. Chain drill first and also Rotary Stop SDS is variable, not just flat out as many seem to run them!! if you use a wide bit (70mm), you can almost shave it down to the depth. Then drill your fixings at an angle to reduce the depth of travel.

 

[drzsta]

When wall's are that thin I just plaster my boxes in with a bit of bonding and pva. Do all boxes in one hit and they're all ready to wire in 30 mins. No drilling through walls.

 

[shanky887614]

What you about ? you run a decent chaser down it first (with your extractor attached) then chip it out with a small sds multi straight into a rubber bucket and clear up as you go along.

if you try an sds like that you will probably cause more damage.

use a wood chisel and scrape it along wall when its close and its that easy, if the fixings bad you will need to use bonding

 

[shanky887614]

There is loads of it where I live. It is experience that counts here. I have done so many flush rewires I feel more akin to a miner sometimes lol. Chain drill first and also Rotary Stop SDS is variable, not just flat out as many seem to run them!! if you use a wide bit (70mm), you can almost shave it down to the depth. Then drill your fixings at an angle to reduce the depth of travel.

a cold chisel bit is very useful. 20mm thick is the perfect size

 

[R G]

You can't beat a good squelch fixing , I often do it and its surprising how strong it is and also you get the box in the exact position as well , I have done rewire after rewire for the best part of 30 years and these things along with knowledge of parts of the building regs all go to prove that this is not a job for any short course wonder guy..

 

[shanky887614]

You can't beat a good squelch fixing , I often do it and its surprising how strong it is and also you get the box in the exact position as well , I have done rewire after rewire for the best part of 30 years and these things along with knowledge of parts of the building regs all go to prove that this is not a job for any short course wonder guy..

gripfill works well and is cheap to boot

 

[R G]

gripfill works well and is cheap to boot

Never tried that, good point , might give it a go when i have some ,

cheers Ray

 

[Dcf]

if you try an sds like that you will probably cause more damage.

use a wood chisel and scrape it along wall when its close and its that easy, if the fixings bad you will need to use bonding

eh??
wood chisels on walls? get out of town.
having the pleasure of cutting boxes and raggles into 2" block this very day ill tell you how its done.
cut out boxes and drops with chaser(in my case a makita sg 1250 with bosch extractor.
knock out boxes by hand with a scutch chisel.
prize out drops with a bolster
Any that were a bit hard , finish with a hilti 76 and a 75mm wide chisel.
job done.
a bit of oval conduit in the drop rather than my preferred option of 20mm pvc conduit due to the reduced depth.
no plastering straight onto the wall in my territory
job done.
I've lost count the amount of apprentices who could cut a box hole 300mm x 450mm and be 12mm deep which is about about as much use as ---- to a fish eh?
like everything else its practise

 

[R G]

I also use a metabo chaser with the henry attached then if its clinker, use a hand skutch chisel, then squelch the box and tube in the wall

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Dry wall adhesive is very good and goes off quickly too. I like to 'gob' boxes in when the wall are made of stone/ cheap bricks, often with crumbly black mortar that often makes getting a secure fixing through the hole in the back box challenging to say the least.

TBH, if i'm mixing up for that, I'll usually fill the chase in too at the same time. It saves using fixings.

What I normally do is chase for the cable and back box, keep the cable free from kinks and hold it back in the chase with a gob every foot, then fill in the gaps. If you keep the mix on the thick side, it holds everything beautifully.

 

[TJ Anderson]

gripfill works well and is cheap to boot

Dry wall adhesive with a bit of cement mixed to set it off quick is the ultimate.

 

[R G]

I have found the wickes one coat plaster quite good for everything really , I often have some old stuff lying around that goes off real quick , and then newer stuff for finishing off ,,,

Its also easy to sand afterwards if you need to..

 

[shanky887614]

eh??
wood chisels on walls? get out of town.
having the pleasure of cutting boxes and raggles into 2" block this very day ill tell you how its done.
cut out boxes and drops with chaser(in my case a makita sg 1250 with bosch extractor.
knock out boxes by hand with a scutch chisel.
prize out drops with a bolster
Any that were a bit hard , finish with a hilti 76 and a 75mm wide chisel.
job done.
a bit of oval conduit in the drop rather than my preferred option of 20mm pvc conduit due to the reduced depth.
no plastering straight onto the wall in my territory
job done.
I've lost count the amount of apprentices who could cut a box hole 300mm x 450mm and be 12mm deep which is about about as much use as ---- to a fish eh?
like everything else its practise

flash btd. use a grinder down the wall (sds if occupied), knock out with sds and using cold chisel in sds cut box out.

cinderblocks are so soft you can cut them with a wood chisel, for everything else ill use a bolster/cold chisel.

 

[TJ Anderson]

I have found the wickes one coat plaster quite good for everything really , I often have some old stuff lying around that goes off real quick , and then newer stuff for finishing off ,,,

Its also easy to sand afterwards if you need to..

I know exactly what you mean . Sometimes you want an old bag of it as it can work to your advantage.

 

[Dcf]

its all about knowing your structures and that comes with experience no other way.
the 2" blocks today were pretty soft but the joints were rock hard.
cutting with a chaser there is less chance of the wall falling to bits if you just go at it with an sds
and no one wants to breath in your fine black dust either when they are in the same building as you.
take it from me who spent 6 months as an apprentice raggling a school block and used to clear the entire floor of men with my "dustless" makita cutter.
and before my old gaffer bought that beauty it was all by hand.

 

[R G]

Yep ,, all by hand when i started , right up to the early 90s then got a roto stop drill , my hands and knuckles all creak and swollen , the chisels and bolsters i went through, that was on fletons as well , and cement rendered walls , council rewires , whole estates with really solid walls ....hmm good old days /not..

 

[shanky887614]

its all about knowing your structures and that comes with experience no other way.
the 2" blocks today were pretty soft but the joints were rock hard.
cutting with a chaser there is less chance of the wall falling to bits if you just go at it with an sds
and no one wants to breath in your fine black dust either when they are in the same building as you.
take it from me who spent 6 months as an apprentice raggling a school block and used to clear the entire floor of men with my "dustless" makita cutter.
and before my old gaffer bought that beauty it was all by hand.

thats why i use a grinder, it gets people out from under your feet cause no one ever has dustmasks etc lol

as long as i can see 6-8" in front of my nose its crack on with the grinder

 

[davesparks]

flash btd. use a grinder down the wall (sds if occupied), knock out with sds and using cold chisel in sds cut box out.

cinderblocks are so soft you can cut them with a wood chisel, for everything else ill use a bolster/cold chisel.

Try as 1" scutch comb chisel instead of the wood chisel and cold chisel, much better on all types of block

 

[R G]

thats why i use a grinder, it gets people out from under your feet cause no one ever has dustmasks etc lol

as long as i can see 6-8" in front of my nose its crack on with the grinder

I bet the customer loves you , the house would look like the sahara desert in 5 mins ...lol...

 

[shanky887614]

I bet the customer loves you , the house would look like the sahara desert in 5 mins ...lol...

^^ i dont do domestic very often and if i do its unoccupied rewires/new build.

 

[Lapierre]

So I've been reading lots about the Domestic Installer route. Seems to me that the "old hands" are beefed because folks can join the industry after a 5 week course, whereas they've all done several years apprenticeships. Hmm.. I can see why. But on the other hand, why does someone need to do an apprenticeship who solely wants to work on domestic installations?
Here's my situation. I work shifts - in the emergency services. I won't say which one. A good mate of mine is a spark. Fully qualified via an apprenticeship etc. I've been working with him as a labourer for a while now - couple of days a week. I can re-wire a house quite comfortably. If there's something I'm not sure about I can ask him, or I know how to find the building regs and guidance too.
I'm going to stick my neck out here - " Domestic installations aren't exactly rocket science are they?". It's pretty easy to do properly and safely.
I'm looking at taking one of the 5 week courses to:
Consolidate what I already I know.
Learn some new skills.
Further my professional development with a view to eventually working alone.

And what's wrong with that?

If blokes and lasses are stupid enough to think they can sit a 5 week course, with no experience, then buy a van and stick their name on the side and get work - then they really are stupid. But I don't think that's happening. The DI route, as far as I'm aware is an attempt to separate the relatively simple world of domestic, from the far more complex world of commercial / industrial. Those who go through apprenticeships should be comfortable knowing that they'll be rewarded in the extra (better paid hopefully??) jobs they pick up in commercial/industrial. Whereas DI allows people like myself, who don't have time or the financial freedom to undertake an apprenticeship, to get into the industry safely. If some sparks are annoyed that DI's can get paid the same as them for a domestic rewire (I believe that this where a lot of the hostility comes from) - then it's tough cookie. We will live in an ever changing world.

 

[Midwest]

Blooming hell, think you better reach for your tin hat. Domestic work can be as simple or complicated as commercial or industrial work. Any sort of electrical installation takes knowledge & experience. One issue with short courses, is that it does not give the trainee the exposure to working with qualified electricians, that apprenticeships do. Whilst I acknowledge that apprenticeships are difficult to find these days, and perhaps these short courses, enable persons to get into a trade that they wouldn't be able to do otherwise, they do no address the issue of lack of experience, and to a certain extent, knowledge of a trade that is built up over the course of a time served apprenticeship. After all, Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[Lapierre]

This is my point Midwest. If it's done in conjunction with hands on experience and the trainee (or whatever you want to call him/her) respects the trade and takes time to learn - what's the issue?

 

[Adam W]

If blokes and lasses are stupid enough to think they can sit a 5 week course, with no experience, then buy a van and stick their name on the side and get work - then they really are stupid. But I don't think that's happening.

What are you basing that opinion on?
Are you one of those who "respects the trade and takes time to learn" or do you believe " Domestic installations aren't exactly rocket science are they?" and don't have time or the financial freedom to undertake an apprenticeship but can manage just as well as someone who is Fully qualified via an apprenticeship etc.?

Would you feel as comfortable labouring for and learning from someone who had only done a 5 week course?