Unshielded internal electrical cables on external wall – safe and certified?

[robinsmith30]

Hi guys,

We have had a new bathroom fitted, which includes an electrically heated (no mist) mirror with LED lights. We have noticed that the cable to the mirror has been run from the loft space, out to an external wall, and then down the external wall, then back into the house to the mirror. You can see from the attached picture this arrangement. In the current weather the wire is covered in snow.

We wanted to check:
1) whether this is electrically safe?
2) whether such a fitting would pass the electrical safety check (Domestic Electrical Periodic Inspection Report I think) needed to rent the property?

We would have thought the electrician would have run the wire through the cavity wall – not externally, or at least shielded it. They did not tell us they were going to wire it this way.

We are not experts and just want to ensure it is electrically safe. If this arrangement is perfectly valid then we do not have a problem. If it will not pass a s safety inspection then we will ask our electrician to rectify, and not sure whether this would involve shielding or running internally.



Our quotation included "testing and certification". We have not yet got the paperwork. Perhaps I am worrying unduly.

Appreciate the advice of the forum once again.

Many thanks,

Robin

 

[stuartcourt]

Hi I dont think most of us sparks would have done this, but I would not fail it on a test as out of the way so wont be pulled about but some would fail it. I also know people who would fail it in a cavity, but maybe use someone else next time.

 

[robinsmith30]

I also know people who would fail it in a cavity,

Hi Stuart,

Thank you for your response. I guess as the electrician who did the work is providing the certification, they will probably chose to not fail this, so we will be good

Interesting you say that some would fail the wiring if in a cavity. Does that mean that in a tiled bathroom, where a mirror in on an external wall, a wire would have to be run on top of the tiles to the mirror (presumably in a white plastic duct). If external wall is a fail, and running the cable in the cavity is a also a fail I cannot see where else the wire could be run other than on top of tiles is probably not a good look.

Cheers,

Robin

 

[Pondy]

Mmm, although it may be out of harms way, I believe the suns ultraviolet rays can degrade the pvc and also on a hot sunny day the heat from the sun could heat the cable meaning it could derate the current carrying capacity and so make the cable too small for the current it is carrying.

 

[stuartcourt]

you are not suppose to run in cavitys as it can cause damp and others say a certain type of insulation can damage cable after a time, but I have never seen any evidence of this in over 20 years and will always cavity run where pos cheers

 

[Octopus]

That cable run is as rough as a badgers back end. Poor shoddy work and NOT the way to do it.

Have you paid him? If not, don't until he provides you a certificate and this is notifiable too.

 

[telectrix]

the correct way would have been to remove a few tiles, chase cable in then make good the tiling. problem is getting any customer to agree to this. most would choke on their false teeth if i mentioned disturbing the tiles that they had so thoughtlessly had done without any consideration of electrical work.

 

[robinsmith30]

We have not yet paid the final 5% of the total job as this is dependent on completion of the snagging list. So we will take Murdoch’s advice and not pay until we have a certificate in our hands.
I understand we need a ‘Part P’ certificate. I understand that the work is notifiable as detailed in question 3 on Building Regulations - Part P FAQs - IET Electrical

“Notifiable work includes new installations, house re-wires, and the installation of new circuits. Notifiable work also includes additions to existing circuits in kitchens, bathrooms, outdoors and in other special locations. “

Does this mean that if the work certified and we get our certificate that the certification body is notified, and as such the certificate for the work is registered to prove the work is done to the required regulations?

Cheers,

Robin

 

[telectrix]

as long as the electrician is a member of one of the schemes, he should notify whichever scheme he's in and they in turn notify building control.

question i have is ... as it's a new bathroom, why the hell was this cable not installed before tiling?

 

[Octopus]

We have not yet paid the final 5% of the total job as this is dependent on completion of the snagging list. So we will take Murdoch’s advice and not pay until we have a certificate in our hands.
I understand we need a ‘Part P’ certificate. I understand that the work is notifiable as detailed in question 3 on Building Regulations - Part P FAQs - IET Electrical

“Notifiable work includes new installations, house re-wires, and the installation of new circuits. Notifiable work also includes additions to existing circuits in kitchens, bathrooms, outdoors and in other special locations. “

Does this mean that if the work certified and we get our certificate that the certification body is notified, and as such the certificate for the work is registered to prove the work is done to the required regulations?

Cheers,

Robin

No, any tom, Dick or Harry can issue worthless certs. LABC notification is receipt of a document, by the homeowner, from the scheme.

I'm with Elecsa, IF I notify the day I do the job, the Elecsa cert arrives about 4 weeks later.

 

[Toonlad]

Its R.A.F,, if this was the only option then contain the cable at least ,,,

 

[Guitarist]

Running cables inside the cavity is a massive no-no.
The way that cable is run is definitely not the way I'd have done it, but unless it's likely to suffer mechanical damage where it is, then it's not technically dangerous, though as already mentioned, UV will have an affect on the sheathing in time.
As the customer, you should have discussed with the electrician how any external cabling would look, and I'm guessing you simply said "You're the expert, just get on with it."
Regarding certification and notification, did you check that he was part P registered before hiring him?

 

[Brightspark2]

Like Tele says you make a chase in the plaster/brickwork and run the cable in then it gets plastered over. Thats how it's done.

Thats an awful job...looks terrible...I wouldnt even contemplate leaving it like that...

 

[driverman]

Now that job complete, ie all tiled etc. I would suggest before final payment made, express your concerns to the electrician and ask that he encloses the external cable in pvc conduit thus protecting the cable from atmospheric conditions including sun rays.
Obversely, it would of been far better for ALL the electrics to have been installed (first fixed) before plastering/tiling etc.

 

[Octopus]

I suppose its too late to ask if the sparky has checked for RCD protection and that bonding is installed?????

 

[Richard Burns]

One thing I do notice is that the cable entries have not been sealed and when that snow melts and runs down the cable it will enter the brickwork of the wall and, depending on the run of cable through the wall, track into the fitting inside.

 

[Guitarist]

Is this the same electrician you are mentioning on another thread regarding the timer fan?

 

[Badged01]

Not the way to do the job and apart from the arguements over the actual cable, external run, through the cavity etc ..... I think an immediate issue might be that if its not sealed you will get water coming in through the 'hole' and tracking to your electrics!

Think the advice would be hold on there until you see the cert covering the work he has done and proof of his registration of one of the governing bodies (ELECSA, NAPIT etc .... )

 

[rmc86uk]

Would not the easiest solution be to run this in conduit?

 

[Guitarist]

Would not the easiest solution be to run this in conduit?

It would have been without a doubt, if works inside could not be avoided. The poster is worried that it is dangerous or non-compliant in some way.