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  1. flyingsparc
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    flyingsparc Active EF Member

    During a PIR last week I found that the flat has its washing machine in an alcove/old airing cupboard with no door, in the bathroom. (I am going to try and include a diagram of the bathroom with this post).
    FLAT 505 BATHROOM.jpg

     
    It is currently supplied via a dedicated RCD protected /circuit and single socket outlet.

    After double checking the regs, it seems it might be possible for it to remain in the cupboard if the following improvements are made.-
    1) A solid door with a keyed lock is fitted to alcove (then technically outside zone 2).
    2) The socket outlet changed to a switched fused connection unit.

    This mainly leaves only the ‘equipment must be suitable for the environment’ reg.
    To completely cover myself I am very much leaning towards saying to the owner that they need to re site the washing machine out side the bathroom, and disconnect the circuit. That’s easy to say in writing, and not impossible, but it is a small flat and it would require remodelling the fairly new looking kitchen.

    I was at a trade fair last week (Elex2011) and put the question to both NICEIC and ELECSA.
    One agreed with my suggestions of improvement above and said it would be ok, but document as such in report, and also said it would be a bit harsh to record as unsatisfactory for one non compliance/code1.

    The other said its not permitted due to the fact that the washing machine has been deemed not suitable for that environment (I confirmed this with manufacturer). Saying that although it would be technically outside the zone, condensation would/could form internally etc etc.

    Thanks for reading this, and I welcome all views, I need to conclude this asap, and sorry if this has been covered many time before, or posted in the wrong bit.
     
  2. trev
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    trev Regular EF Member

    I was once asked to install a washing machine in a cupboard in a bathroom and because of the ambiguity I said flat out no.
     
  3. mogga
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    mogga Just me Electrician's Arms

    this issue usually occurs from small one,2beds like my old grans where bathrooms have been added
    Personaly Id go for fitting a door to the alcove puting it outwith zones it is hard telling someone that the appliance they have had there for years and been using for years is deemed unsafe
     
  4. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    IMO, the only thing tat should concern you re. a PIR is the position of the socket outlet. if it's within 3m of the bath, then it's a code 2. the washing machine itself is irrelevant.
     
  5. DurhamSparky
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    DurhamSparky Guest

    agreed with TEL
     
  6. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    thanks for that steve. when i saw you had posted, i thought i was going to get a torp. up the jacksie. lol.
     
  7. DurhamSparky
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    DurhamSparky Guest

    im just getting my post count up...!!

    but if the washing machine was pushed right back and it was fitted with an IP outlet i might turn a blind eye and make it a 4
     
  8. yellowvanman
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    yellowvanman Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Dorset
    As the washing machine is in zone 2 it needs to be splash proof (IPx4), if the manufacturer says its not then it shouldn't be there. Socket is the bathroom is a no no when less than 3m from bath.

    Not sure what is meant by
    ' bit harsh to record as unsatisfactory for one non compliance/code1.'
    a) the washing machine in zone 2 isn't a code 1
    b) the socket within 3m of bath is a code 1 in my view

    code 1 is a code 1 and presents an immediate danger no ifs or buts so unsatisfactory, not harsh in my view. Change to a SFS (i assume outside zone 2) and if manufacturer says washing machine is splash proof then all OK.
     
  9. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    i would still give it a code 2 as IMO it is not a real and immediate danger ( unless someone does something stupid like using a hair dryer in the bath. )
     
  10. yellowvanman
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    yellowvanman Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Dorset
    Its a close call and its this sort of process that produces inconsistencies between different people, not that I'm saying your wrong!

    I hope the new Condition Report is able to provide a bit more consistency.
     
  11. flyingsparc
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    flyingsparc Active EF Member

    Thanks to all of you who have replied so far, if a door with a lock requiring a key to open it was fitted, could it be considered as not in zone 2? Ok so then they put a washing load in, set it off, cupboard door is still propped open with the laundry basket and they jump in the shower, very possible i think.
     
  12. Engineer54
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    Engineer54 Guest

    Haha, ...This is an everyday common occurance in Cyprus, to have washing machines/tumble dryers in cupboards within bathrooms and upstairs landing cupboards. Never once heard of anyone getting belted or dying from the practice. Not particually what i would like in a bathroom or anywhere upstairs , but it's just normal over there. Were not talking about tiny apartments here either, think anything from 1 to 5 bed flats and villas/houses...
     
  13. spinlondon
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    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    The cupboard doesn't require a lock and key, just a door for the cupboard to be outside of the location.
    The washing machine is very likely to be IPX4.
    Either replace door, or change socket-outlet to an FCU rated at IPX4.
     
  14. MarkieSparkie
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    MarkieSparkie Guest

    If the bathroom is force ventilated the condensation issue should be minimal. Whilst putting a door on the alcove to create a utility cupboard/room seems a good idea. My main worry and concern about doing so, is the unattended operation of a washing machine located in a cupboard, although this prevents direct access to the equipment, it could increase the fire risk by reducing the airflow in and around the machine and the possibility of poor venting, leading to increased operating temperatures. If the machine is a washer/drier the build up and trapping of cotton lint from the clothing leading to a combustible atmosphere would increase the fire risk. There are about 1400 washing machine and tumble drier related fires in domestic premises every year so this is a real and potential risk.
     
  15. TIGGERTOM13
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    TIGGERTOM13 Guest

    Even a code 2 could be un satisfactory, looking at your drawing I would suggest removal.
     
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