What are your thoughts on people wanting to be ultra neat when wiring inside boards?

[SparkySy]

Agree with @ferg not all mine are Instagram perfect but you will be able to see which neutral and earth are the ones for each circuit and will have plenty space for testing and additional cables/circuits!
And yes the next bloke who looks in there will judge just as we all do!

 

[nicebutdim]

I'm on about being ultra neat though - is there any real difference between 'generally pretty tidy' and 'every single wire is the exact same length and curvature into the termination, i've cable tied all the earths and neutrals together (a hindrance imo)' ?

Is one 'better' than the other? Because i see people slagging work that is completely fine it just doesn't look as pretty.

If you're spending time on instagram, chances are most comments will be from people viewing the installation from an entirely aesthetic perspective and many will have no idea what the pretty colours do. Instagram isn't real life and from the little I know about it, the place doesn't even approach real life.

I've never seen anyone cable tie earths together (why would they?) and the only cable tying of neutrals I've seen has been RCBO flyleads which none of us really know how to dress neatly, while maintaining ease of access and identification. The options with neutral flyleads are stark: cable tie, cut short and potentially unable to be moved or do the best you can. If people care for adulation on social media, chances are they're going to make less than pragmatic choices.

This place isn't instagram and, thankfully, represents a wide range of opinions.

 

[nicebutdim]

I do occasioinally see earths and neutrals cable tied in 3 phase boards and that doesn't present any real hindrance - plenty of space to snip them and plenty of space to add or remove cables. What I do hate is people who don't loom incoming circuits when wired in PVC singles - nothing worse than removing a circuit and not being 100% certain the correct earth & neutral are being removed, especially after tracing back some distance through trunking. That sort of laziness is unacceptable, when huge sums of money are involved if the wrong conductor is removed. Perhaps if the people who do this found themselves in the shoes of those who follow behind, they'd be inclined to amend their work ethic - especially when alternative means of verification are nigh on impossible.

 

[rewireIT]

Like it or not the next person in the board will judge your ability based on what they see.

Why does that matter? Every tradesman ever calls the work of others rough even when it's not.

And again let's keep in mind i'm not saying there's neat then there's rats nest, i'm talking about what's wrong with it being in between - everything identifiable and done correctly but not necessarily good to look at.

 

[rewireIT]

I do occasioinally see earths and neutrals cable tied in 3 phase boards and that doesn't present any real hindrance - plenty of space to snip them and plenty of space to add or remove cables. What I do hate is people who don't loom incoming circuits when wired in PVC singles - nothing worse than removing a circuit and not being 100% certain the correct earth & neutral are being removed, especially after tracing back some distance through trunking. That sort of laziness is unacceptable, when huge sums of money are involved if the wrong conductor is removed. Perhaps if the people who do this found themselves in the shoes of those who follow behind, they'd be inclined to amend their work ethic - especially when alternative means of verification are nigh on impossible.

What do you mean by loom?

 

[nicebutdim]

What do you mean by loom?

In the context of my post about wiring I'd honestly thought this would be quite apparent.

Individual conductors in each circuit grouped together for ease of identification. Often this is in the form of simple, but effective taping at regular intervals - perhaps every metre or so. Even 2"x2" trunking can be difficult to trace cables in and you don't want to think about tracing a circuit in large, busy trunking if it isn't easy to follow.

Little things can make a huge difference to people who follow behind. It is for this reason that many posts in this thread are less than forgiving of untidy work. There's a level of attention to detail that goes beyond what is necessary, but I'm firmly of the belief that taking pride in turning out fairly neat work is important in this industry.

I'd recommend looking at section 514 of BS7671 - specifically 514.1.2 Not only should we take care to ensure our work can easily be followed by other electricians, we're bound to do so by regulation.

 

[rewireIT]

In the context of my post about wiring I'd honestly thought this would be quite apparent.

Individual conductors in each circuit grouped together for ease of identification. Often this is in the form of simple, but effective taping at regular intervals - perhaps every metre or so. Even 2"x2" trunking can be difficult to trace cables in and you don't want to think about tracing a circuit in large, busy trunking if it isn't easy to follow.

Little things can make a huge difference to people who follow behind. It is for this reason that many posts in this thread are less than forgiving of untidy work. There's a level of attention to detail that goes beyond what is necessary, but I'm firmly of the belief that taking pride in turning out fairly neat work is important in this industry.

I'd recommend looking at section 514 of BS7671 - specifically 514.1.2 Not only should we take care to ensure our work can easily be followed by other electricians, we're bound to do so by regulation.

Ah right just never heard it called loom.

So you're talking about physically taping them together?

 

[nicebutdim]

So you're talking about physically taping them together?

That's precisely what I stated.

 

[rewireIT]

So what i'm talking about is, is one of these 'better' than the other because one looks much neater?

Does straightening all the conductors and perfectly folding them in mean you've got more pride in your work or that it's a better install?

I think the RCBO board is waaaay overkill in how it's been made to look considering it spends its life unseen. It's also weird that someone would go to that trouble of being that neat but then use the wrong size sleeving.

 

[rewireIT]

That's precisely what I stated.

Alright calm down

 

[nicebutdim]

I've covered the issue of fastidious neatness in post #2 and have repeated similar sentiments since. I'm not sure how much more clearly my position could be stated.

Is there anything in particular from my posts which you'd like me to clarify in greater detail?

Alright calm down

Sorry if this appeared brusque - it was intended to simply affirm your assertion.

 

[ipf]

In most cases, I've no time for cable ties in boards, especially CU's, a real pain for future or testing. Even if they're tied, how do you know they're correct?

 

[rewireIT]

In most cases, I've no time for cable ties in boards, especially CU's, a real pain for future or testing. Even if they're tied, how do you know they're correct?

Completely agree, to test you're likely gonna have to snip the ties anyway, complete waste of time

 

[davesparks]

I'm on about being ultra neat though - is there any real difference between 'generally pretty tidy' and 'every single wire is the exact same length and curvature into the termination,

That is unnecessary and I wouldn't judge an installation like that as being better than one that is just a normal level of neat and tidy.
And I think there is a danger of trying to be too neat and placing form over function, thinking too much about making it look pretty than how easy it will be to work on in the future.

i've cable tied all the earths and neutrals together (a hindrance imo)' ?

That is bad practice in my opinion, it gives no room at all for any heat dissipation from the conductors and will increase the effects of grouping.

Because i see people slagging work that is completely fine it just doesn't look as pretty.

There will always be those people in the world sadly, they make up for their own inadequacy by slating the wokr of others. With some people it's just a bad case of 'little man syndrome', everything in life is just a p*ssing contest for them.