Discuss When does the Law act !!!!! , in the Business Related area at ElectriciansForums.net

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amberleaf

When does the Law act !!!!! , what does the 17th Edition stand for , reading material only

Homebase.co.uk ( you can down load this off the inter net , )

HOW TO: Install wall lights and downlighters :

( Buy a light for 50 pounds / But you must take out house insurance with the work you are doing !!!!!!! ) Amberleaf

Q : why do Electricians have to sit C/G part P and the rest ( James bond had a license to kill ??? what are they doing , ive looked at the carefully and at least 25 regulations’ are missing & H/S and all that , PS this is a disgrace to the H/S of the Public ,

Where are the NICEIC when you need them !!!!!!!! : sorry ive drop my wallet ,

What does it take before the Government will do something about this , PS , a loss of live

There are to many Company’s ( Like H/B and others ) showing the Public how to wire lights switches and lights

On the Net , ive , had a look at theses ,
This 'How to' guides you through the process of installing wall lights, downlighters and low voltage lights. It explains how to run the lighting circuits for the different types of lighting and offers lots of useful advice on positioning and connecting the lights.
Remember, if you're at all unsure about working with electrical wiring, use a professional qualified electrician ↔↔↔ ( Loop Hole )

Please note: safety disclaimer:
All diagrams relating to electrical wiring have been created in a colour format. If you are printing this document in black and white, we advise you to follow these basic safety precautions:
1. Make a careful note of the colour diagrams as seen on your screen. Note the colour and position of each wire in the diagram.
2. Follow all safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of the equipment you are using.
3. If in doubt, contact a qualified electrician.

About lighting circuits
For a description of loop-in and junction box systems, and guidance on identifying the connections for both types of system, See How to:
Remove a ceiling light. Regulations govern the load a single lighting circuit may carry. These regulations allow up to 12 x 100 watt bulbs on a 5 amp re-wireable fuse or cartridge-fused circuit. A 6 amp Miniature Circuit Breaker (MCB) may have up to 14 x 100 watt bulbs. As you may
use some bulbs with a higher wattage, it's good practice to restrict the circuit to 8 fittings.

Wall lights
Lighting circuits for wall lights may run as follows:
• As a spur from an existing ceiling pendant light on a loop-in circuit(figs. 2 and 3)

• From a junction box connected into a junction box circuit (fig. 4)
• From a junction box replacing a ceiling rose. This system would use the old switch cable (fig. 5)

• From a fused spur off a 30 amp ring main (fig. 6 and 20). Note how it's switched in a separate box to the ceiling light.

Homebase.co.uk
downlighter holes or by a floor trap not concealed by a floor covering. Read the manufacturer's instructions for further guidance on positioning.

Final wiring connections
The various methods for wiring circuits for different situations are shown in figs. 2–10. Beside each relevant fitting is a number. This coincides with a Figure illustrating the wiring connections for that particular use, for example in fig. 3 the switch is wired as in fig.15, the light fitting as in fig.13 and the ceiling rose as in fig.18. Earthing is a built-in safety device to reduce the effects of electrical shock. All metal within a circuit, for example wall boxes and metal light fittings, must be earthed. At the termination, green and yellow sleeving is placed over the earth conductor.
Some fittings are double insulated, which means they're not connected to the earth conductor. These fittings have a special symbol attached, which is usually on the packaging (fig.1). When connecting twin and earth mains cable to a double insulated fitting, don't cut off the earth conductor. You may need it at a later date for a different fitting. Place earth sleeving over the conductor, fold it back onto the PVC outer sheath,
and tape it so that the sleeving cannot fall off (fig. 21a). Some low voltage lights come as a kit with built-in connectors (fig. 21a). Others come
wired into connector blocks (fig. 21b). In this instance, on the low voltage side of the transformer, you can cut off the earth conductor.
Use the correct transformer for the type and number of lights you're installing. Position it in an accessible cupboard with sufficient air space around. Only position it elsewhere if you can still gain easy access, eg through one of the low voltage downlighter holes or by a floor trap not concealed by a floor covering. Read the manufacturer's instructions for further guidance on positioning.

HOW TO: Install wall lights and downlighters Running cables

Wall lights
Lighting circuits for wall lights may run as follows:
• As a spur from an existing ceiling pendant light on a loop-in circuit
(figs. 2 and 3)
• From a junction box connected into a junction box circuit (fig. 4)
• From a junction box replacing a ceiling rose. This system would use the old switch cable (fig. 5)
• From a fused spur off a 30 amp ring main (fig. 6 and 20). Note how it's switched in a separate box to the ceiling light.


PS , Sorry about this Dan , I feel strongly about this , Electricians’ have to take a lot off stick of the public ,

Well Chaps am I Right or Wrong , when does Safety come in to this PS, I will be EX Communicated of this , :eek:
 
You can't buy alcohol if there's any doubt about your age, without ID - I think there is a strong case for certain electrical items to be sold only to card carrying competent people. I must admit that i have been surprised in the past by some of the displays that B+Q have up encouraging people to do outside DIY tasks with swa that i wouldn't even feel 100% confident about myself, until i had asked on here first ;).
 
When does the Law act !!!!! , what does the 17th Edition stand for , reading material only 17th is not a statutory document so what do you mean"When does the Law act !!!!! "

Homebase.co.uk ( you can down load this off the inter net , )

HOW TO: Install wall lights and downlighters :

( Buy a light for 50 pounds / But you must take out house insurance with the work you are doing !!!!!!! ) Amberleaf

Q : why do Electricians have to sit C/G part P (No such qualification as C/G part P, Part P is a BUILDING REGULATION) and the rest ( James bond had a license to kill ??? what are they doing , ive looked at the carefully and at least 25 regulations’ are missing & H/S and all that , PS this is a disgrace to the H/S of the Public ,

Where are the NICEIC when you need them !!!!!!!! : sorry ive drop my wallet ,

What does it take before the Government will do something about this , PS , a loss of live

There are to many Company’s ( Like H/B and others ) showing the Public how to wire lights switches and lights

On the Net , ive , had a look at theses ,
This 'How to' guides you through the process of installing wall lights, downlighters and low voltage lights. It explains how to run the lighting circuits for the different types of lighting and offers lots of useful advice on positioning and connecting the lights.
Remember, if you're at all unsure about working with electrical wiring, use a professional qualified electrician ↔↔↔ ( Loop Hole )

Please note: safety disclaimer:
All diagrams relating to electrical wiring have been created in a colour format. If you are printing this document in black and white, we advise you to follow these basic safety precautions:
1. Make a careful note of the colour diagrams as seen on your screen. Note the colour and position of each wire in the diagram.
2. Follow all safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of the equipment you are using.
3. If in doubt, contact a qualified electrician.

About lighting circuits
For a description of loop-in and junction box systems, and guidance on identifying the connections for both types of system, See How to:
Remove a ceiling light. Regulations govern the load a single lighting circuit may carry. These regulations allow up to 12 x 100 watt bulbs on a 5 amp re-wireable fuse or cartridge-fused circuit. A 6 amp Miniature Circuit Breaker (MCB) may have up to 14 x 100 watt bulbs. As you may
use some bulbs with a higher wattage, it's good practice to restrict the circuit to 8 fittings.

Wall lights
Lighting circuits for wall lights may run as follows:
• As a spur from an existing ceiling pendant light on a loop-in circuit(figs. 2 and 3)

• From a junction box connected into a junction box circuit (fig. 4)
• From a junction box replacing a ceiling rose. This system would use the old switch cable (fig. 5)

• From a fused spur off a 30 amp ring main (fig. 6 and 20). Note how it's switched in a separate box to the ceiling light.

Homebase.co.uk
downlighter holes or by a floor trap not concealed by a floor covering. Read the manufacturer's instructions for further guidance on positioning.

Final wiring connections
The various methods for wiring circuits for different situations are shown in figs. 2–10. Beside each relevant fitting is a number. This coincides with a Figure illustrating the wiring connections for that particular use, for example in fig. 3 the switch is wired as in fig.15, the light fitting as in fig.13 and the ceiling rose as in fig.18. Earthing is a built-in safety device to reduce the effects of electrical shock. All metal within a circuit, for example wall boxes and metal light fittings, must be earthed. At the termination, green and yellow sleeving is placed over the earth conductor.
Some fittings are double insulated, which means they're not connected to the earth conductor. These fittings have a special symbol attached, which is usually on the packaging (fig.1). When connecting twin and earth mains cable to a double insulated fitting, don't cut off the earth conductor. You may need it at a later date for a different fitting. Place earth sleeving over the conductor, fold it back onto the PVC outer sheath,
and tape it so that the sleeving cannot fall off (fig. 21a). Some low voltage lights come as a kit with built-in connectors (fig. 21a). Others come
wired into connector blocks (fig. 21b). In this instance, on the low voltage side of the transformer, you can cut off the earth conductor.
Use the correct transformer for the type and number of lights you're installing. Position it in an accessible cupboard with sufficient air space around. Only position it elsewhere if you can still gain easy access, eg through one of the low voltage downlighter holes or by a floor trap not concealed by a floor covering. Read the manufacturer's instructions for further guidance on positioning.

HOW TO: Install wall lights and downlighters Running cables

Wall lights
Lighting circuits for wall lights may run as follows:
• As a spur from an existing ceiling pendant light on a loop-in circuit
(figs. 2 and 3)
• From a junction box connected into a junction box circuit (fig. 4)
• From a junction box replacing a ceiling rose. This system would use the old switch cable (fig. 5)
• From a fused spur off a 30 amp ring main (fig. 6 and 20). Note how it's switched in a separate box to the ceiling light.


PS , Sorry about this Dan , I feel strongly about this , Electricians’ have to take a lot off stick of the public ,

Well Chaps am I Right or Wrong , when does Safety come in to this PS, I will be EX Communicated of this , :eek:

While companies are allowed to sell electrical cable, sockets etc are supplied to the general public then they will get away with it as there is nothing in law to stop them from selling them.
 
i wonder if they do leaflets on triple heart bypass or any other simple task:rolleyes::rolleyes:

the problem is people armed with a little knowledge are more dangerous than those with none ,as they wont attempt a job...

"electrics scare me" they say

instead of "i rewired my house on my own in a day and a half it was easy":mad:
 
Ive seen these leaflets in wicks as well there every where like poop in a field ! last one i saw was how to install an electric shower. that reminds me i need a couple of fillings ! does anyone know if dremel do one on diy dentistry ? save me a mint !
Mind you might get the attachments in screwfix !
 
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Ive seen these leaflets in wicks as well there every where like poop in a field ! last one i saw was how to install an electric shower. that reminds me i need a couple of fillings ! does anyone know if dremel do one on diy dentistry ? save me a mint !
Mind you might get the attachments in screwfix !


Bit of araldite and job's a good'n

:D:Dcheers adam

Just think of the hospital waiting times you save :p
 
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Most of my jobs of late have come from "when DIY goes bad", and they have to call someone! - I guess they call me as I have an ad in the Post Office, and they think that as i am a small outfit it wont be as embarrasing!

Two botched CU's to rectify in the last week, along with an outside socket 30m burried PVC wired with two taped joints that keeps tripping!!

The thing that amazes me is how many people say the job was done by someone else!!

B&Q have a special on Wylex boards at the moment just near the tree lights - so should be a festive Christmas
 
Wow amberleaf you have made a great point, no one should be legally allowed to do anything they havent been rubber stamped by the gorvernment as "qualified"
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

No madam you cant bake a cake you dont have a Food Hygiene certificate.

No Sir you can't dig your garden you havent got the correct paperwork.

Part P doesn't cover most domestic electrical tasks, anyone who is competent can do it.

Don't get me started on so called professionals who think anything that is cabled is in their remit.
 
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This is a true Story , Amberleaf , :eek:

I got a call out on fri afternoon , nov / 20 / 09
From a sub letting agency had some small jobs before this , they tenant had a problem with a shower ?
the fuse box was a re-wirable 30Amp ( not a RCD in site )
Traced the cable under the floorboards 6.0mm2 / junction box via cooker to the shower , the cooker was disconnect at one point the earth was cut off at the fuse box end ,
The cooker wire was running under the bathroom floor to the kitchen , 3 meters to shower 6.0mm2 / junction box via cooker ,
Some ---- wired it back in with out connecting the earth ,
Some silly chap wired the earth onto the copper pipes in the bathroom , thinking it was earthed lifted up floorboards there was copper on to plastic pipes , with out lifting the floor boards up you would no see the plastic pipes ,
This shower was installed onto the wall next to the bath it was a 14 year old boy had his bath was washing his hair standing up in the bath the shower went into a fault this poor boy took the impact I can still see the boy eyes how the boy survived I don’t know ,
Am not blaming anybody , I had a lump to my throat that day
PS , the sub letting agency had no records of a shower in this house , just a bath !!!!
I felt guilty asking for my fee , it was not a good day for me ,

The Cooker & Shower was disconnected for good cut the cable , and blank fuse plate was but on ,
Water was Capped off at the shower , under the bath

When is the Government going to sit up , to many loop holes ,
 
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As said enough is enough we need to unite and hold the scheme providers/government/building controll etc up and ask why were NOT supported correctly we need the corgi/gas safe directors to take over this industry that will sort this mess out for us ! why is it they can get it sussed and its a wee bit hard for the electrical trade to get treated the same ! They have introduced part p for us and nobody wants or cares about it enough to fix whats broken ! if they dont want to know why the hell dont they just say plain and simple ONLY qualified sparks legally allowed to work on electrical installs anyone else caught WILL recieve JAIL no ifs or buts and throw away the part p crap that DOESNT work only for the course opperators ! simple as that !
 
I don't see your point Kung.

You say we should be like gas safe.
Ok, so if the situation below was gas not eletricity what would be diferent?


This is a true Story , Amberleaf , :eek:

I got a call out on fri afternoon , nov / 20 / 09
From a sub letting agency had some small jobs before this , they tenant had a problem with a shower ?
the fuse box was a re-wirable 30Amp ( not a RCD in site )
Traced the cable under the floorboards 6.0mm2 / junction box via cooker to the shower , the cooker was disconnect at one point the earth was cut off at the fuse box end ,
The cooker wire was running under the bathroom floor to the kitchen , 3 meters to shower 6.0mm2 / junction box via cooker ,
Some ---- wired it back in with out connecting the earth ,
Some silly ---- wired the earth onto the copper pipes in the bathroom , thinking it was earthed lifted up floorboards there was copper on to plastic pipes , with out lifting the floor boards up you would no see the plastic pipes ,
This shower was installed onto the wall next to the bath it was a 14 year old boy had his bath was washing his hair standing up in the bath the shower went into a fault this poor boy took the impact I can still see the boy eyes how the boy survived I don’t know ,
Am not blaming anybody , I had a lump to my throat that day
PS , the sub letting agency had no records of a shower in this house , just a bath !!!!
I felt guilty asking for my fee , it was not a good day for me ,

The Cooker & Shower was disconnected for good cut the cable , and blank fuse plate was but on ,
Water was Capped off at the shower , under the bath

When is the Government going to sit up , to many loop holes ,


The law would still be broken,
Lives would still be put at risk
And nobody would be prosecuted because nobody has been informed.

We are not a million miles from what you want.
As an unqualified plumber I can legally buy any plumbing fittings and undertake any work I choose.
All that I can't do is connect to the gas or do any live gas work.

I need someone registered for that

(bit like part p realy)
 
I don't see your point Kung.

You say we should be like gas safe.
Ok, so if the situation below was gas not eletricity what would be diferent?
The law would still be broken,
Lives would still be put at risk
And nobody would be prosecuted because nobody has been informed.

We are not a million miles from what you want.
As an unqualified plumber I can legally buy any plumbing fittings and undertake any work I choose.
All that I can't do is connect to the gas or do any live gas work.

I need someone registered for that

(bit like part p realy)

The point is that in the electrical industry not many people know whats required in electrical work only people working in it unlike gas safe where everyone knows whats what the point im making is that if we had the coverage like gas safe even though its fairly new and the change over from corgi to gas safe was well publicised we dont get the requirments to the public as well as gas safe have done thus more people having this type of work done ! take your point that the law would still be broken but how many people do you know have been prosicuted for unlawfull electrical work ? was that none ? untill this happens wheres the deterrent ? the point that you and thousands of other people know you need a registered and you knew it was gas safe is also my point all most of my customers think is for electrical work they need an electrician what electrician is is no limit my gran can say because she wired a plug in she's an electrician and whos to argue ? theres no min qual for our industry unlike gas safe also most things are non notifiable therefor anyone can do the work apart from anything that requires an E.I.C. gas safe states ONLY registered personell can work on gas installations why dont we have the same ? ONLY qualified registered personell are allowed to work on ANY electrical installations surely that would be easier for joe public to understand ! I do take your point about my post but when you total up how many electrical installs are done by unquallified personell and some dangerous compared to gas work.
Im just saying alot is due to not many people knowing whats required and what they can and cant do.
 
again i'm with kung and amberleaf on this one. the whole point of part p is to stop cowboy unsafe electrical works. if it is not enforced or publicised or explained then its only taking money off sparks who want to work legitimately
 
Also as in this case if only qualified personell would only be able to work on electricial installations then someone would be accountable for shoddy dangerous workmanship (easy to trace also deturs people from using unregistered sparks) and if the landlord didnt have certs to prove he employed a suitable registered spark he would then be responsible thus would be prosecuted for negligence !
 
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