Working at height?

[HappyHippyDad]

I have a tripping RCD in a church. The faulty circuit supplies 5 x spotlights which are on the inside walls of the church. They are as high as trying to reach above a first story window in a house so perhaps 5m above ground. I will eliminate all other possible faulty parts (switches etc) before invesigating the lights but it's highly likely it will be the lights which look subject to damp and also perhaps birds nests.

I can foresee the church pews making it difficult to get a ladder in between them, although it might fit as it does not have a supporting bar at the bottom.

On rare occasions I get my big ladder out if I have to work at height (see pic below of my ladder) but it will only be for a short, simple jobs and I feel uncomfortable doing this in the church by myself.



What would others do in this situation?
Would you have someone with you? How would that actually help?
Would you put up internal scaffolding? That would be a much larger cost.
Would you somehow secure the ladder?


Thanks all.

 

[Pete999]

I have a tripping RCD in a church. The faulty circuit supplies 5 x spotlights which are on the inside walls of the church. They are as high as trying to reach above a first story window in a house so perhaps 5m above ground. I will eliminate all other possible faulty parts (switches etc) before invesigating the lights but it's highly likely it will be the lights which look subject to damp and also perhaps birds nests.

I can foresee the church pews making it difficult to get a ladder in between them, although it might fit.

On rare occasions I get my big ladder out if I have to work at height (see pic below of my ladder) but it will only be for a short, simple jobs and I feel uncomfortable doing this in the church by myself.

View attachment 56302

What would others do in this situation?
Would you have someone with you? How would that actually help?
Would you put up internal scaffolding? That would be a much larger cost.
Would you somehow secure the ladder?


Thanks all.

What type of cable has been used to wire these lights?

 

[Strima]

Small MEWP:

Other hire companies available...

 

[richy3333]

Either get ascending angels to help; else whether you fall or not will be gods devine judgement ?
There’s a HSE guidance on this. Should be a scaffold of some sort.

 

[Baddegg]

Scaffold for me mate, not worth the risk, it’s not expensive these days and the church can afford it......seriously though if you fall and injure yourself or worse it’s not just about you, kids etc.....I worked as a crane driver for years so not bothered by heights but I hate working of a ladder at that sort of height...

 

[Pete999]

I have a tripping RCD in a church. The faulty circuit supplies 5 x spotlights which are on the inside walls of the church. They are as high as trying to reach above a first story window in a house so perhaps 5m above ground. I will eliminate all other possible faulty parts (switches etc) before invesigating the lights but it's highly likely it will be the lights which look subject to damp and also perhaps birds nests.

I can foresee the church pews making it difficult to get a ladder in between them, although it might fit as it does not have a supporting bar at the bottom.

On rare occasions I get my big ladder out if I have to work at height (see pic below of my ladder) but it will only be for a short, simple jobs and I feel uncomfortable doing this in the church by myself.

View attachment 56302

What would others do in this situation?
Would you have someone with you? How would that actually help?
Would you put up internal scaffolding? That would be a much larger cost.
Would you somehow secure the ladder?


Thanks all.

If you suspect the lights are at fault then your price for rectifying should include the hiring of a suitable scaffold, to allow for inspection, if they won't pay, inform the client that you will need to isolate the circuit for safety's sake, shouldn't take them long to cough up for the price of the scaffolding

 

[HappyHippyDad]

What type of cable has been used to wire these lights?

Twin and earth

Small MEWP:

Other hire companies available...

They look good but I'm not sure it would fit inbetween the pews, unless there is something that can extend outwards as well as up and down?

Either get ascending angels to help; else whether you fall or not will be gods devine judgement ?
There’s a HSE guidance on this. Should be a scaffold of some sort.

Because I class you as an experienced electrician I was pleased when you replied and I thought 'I bet an acsending angel is the perfect piece of equipment, as Richy knows his stuff'. I then googled it

Scaffold for me mate, not worth the risk, it’s not expensive these days and the church can afford it......seriously though if you fall and injure yourself or worse it’s not just about you, kids etc.....I worked as a crane driver for years so not bothered by heights but I hate working of a ladder at that sort of height...

I've never used scaffold before so i'm very green with this. Is it just a case of contacting a scaffolding company and letting them do the rest or do I specify exactly what I want?

 

[Baddegg]

Twin and earth

They look good but I'm not sure it would fit inbetween the pews, unless there is something that can extend outwards as well as up and down?

Because I class you as an experienced electrician I was pleased when you replied and I thought 'I bet an acsending angel is the perfect piece of equipment, as Richy knows his stuff'. I then googled it

I've never used scaffold before so i'm very green with this. Is it just a case of contacting a scaffolding company and letting them do the rest or do I specify exactly what I want?

meet em at the job mate point where you need to get, ask em the price and leave the rest to them,any decent firm will sort relevant permits etc, in this instance I would stress that when you are finished they need to remove ASAP.....they are quite fond of leaving it with you untill they next job needs it, not cool in this instance obviously

 

[Vortigern]

Use a tower hire it's not very expensive. WaHR preclude any other method. You have to maintain contact with three points at all times on a ladder. You really need PASMA training to use a tower. You also need to tower tag it as well certifying it is safe. Cost up both. Hard hat working on a tower. Although saying that I know an electrician that gets a triple way ladder and just gets up there and does it. Very bad!!!
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Oh and you need to secure the tower at every four metres height with a sleeve anchor and chain or something of the such like.

 

[Pete999]

Twin and earth

They look good but I'm not sure it would fit inbetween the pews, unless there is something that can extend outwards as well as up and down?

Because I class you as an experienced electrician I was pleased when you replied and I thought 'I bet an acsending angel is the perfect piece of equipment, as Richy knows his stuff'. I then googled it

I've never used scaffold before so i'm very green with this. Is it just a case of contacting a scaffolding company and letting them do the rest or do I specify exactly what I want?

Is it an old building? I bet T&E looks smashing in an old church, usually done in MICC for aesthetics. but if it's one of those new happy clappy type churches it won't be an issue,

 

[Vortigern]

Oh yeh forgot to say, it is a two man job.

 

[Baddegg]

Is it an old building? I bet T&E looks smashing in an old church, usually done in MICC for aesthetics. but if it's one of those new happy clappy type churches it won't be an issue,

That’s tickled me Pete! ?

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Have a word with your local brandon tool hire I often get towers for work in the georgian properties in Bath.
Pay only £110 inc vat and delivery/collection for a one man mi-tower. for a 3 day rental
Can have a standard aluminium tower for around £30 a day.
Well worth the cost for safety purposes.
I had a stair tower few weeks ago cost me just £30 as above as I couldnt work on the upper stairs leaning over for the light with a 5 floor drop below

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Use a tower hire it's not very expensive. WaHR preclude any other method. You have to maintain contact with three points at all times on a ladder. You really need PASMA training to use a tower. You also need to tower tag it as well certifying it is safe. Cost up both. Hard hat working on a tower. Although saying that I know an electrician that gets a triple way ladder and just gets up there and does it. Very bad!!!
[automerge]1583939390[/automerge]
Oh and you need to secure the tower at every four metres height with a sleeve anchor and chain or something of the such like.

Have a word with your local brandon tool hire I often get towers for work in the georgian properties in Bath.
Pay only £110 inc vat and delivery/collection for a one man mi-tower. for a 3 day rental
Can have a standard aluminium tower for around £30 a day.
Well worth the cost for safety purposes.
I had a stair tower few weeks ago cost me just £30 as above as I couldnt work on the upper stairs leaning over for the light with a 5 floor drop below

Would you be able to post a link of the type of tower that you’ve mentioned?

 

[Pete999]

That’s tickled me Pete! ?

Oh Matron you are naughty

 

[telectrix]

i'd go for a scissor lift or cherry picker every time.

 

[Pete999]

i'd go for a scissor lift or cherry picker every time.

Ave a hard job getting a scissor lift in amongst all them Pews Tel? or a cherry picker.

 

[telectrix]

pews aren't generally fixed to the floor. just shove 'em around a bit.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

It will be good to see what one of the 'towers' look like, although I think I am erring towards scaffolding due to the limited access. I expect they'd be able to get scaffolding up between the pews.

 

[OnlQQker]

Whatever you do don't go asking the priest or vicar for a bunk up.

 

[Moley]

Would any of this lot be any use to you?
LINK!!

 

[dave274]

MiTower - One Person Quick Build Tower - HSS Hire

Hire quick build MiTower direct from online equipment hire specialists HSS.

www.hss.com

I've used one of these before, simple to erect and move around and it fits in a medium sized van

 

[littlespark]

I do a bit of work at our local church. Had the same problem with spotlights that I could luckily teach from the balcony.
The biggest problem was “old joe” the caretaker of the past would change the lamps, and put the faulty ones back in the store room beside the new ones.
7 boxes of lamps and only 1 good one found.
ive suggested the get LED ones into stock.

Another balcony had lights that were tripping their mcb. Due to the balcony not being used for safety reasons, I disconnected the part of the circuit going up there.

a big problem with churches I find is the location of the db is in the most awkward corner they can find.... and of course, you can’t swear in a church.

 

[davesparks]

How do they change the lamps in the lights if you can't get at them with a ladder?

 

[littlespark]

How do they change the lamps in the lights if you can't get at them with a ladder?

I would reckon the time the lights were fitted, they didn’t have H+S telling you not to use a ladder

 

[DPG]

I've used one of these before, simple to erect and move around and it fits in a medium sized van

That's what she said.

 

[Pete999]

pews aren't generally fixed to the floor. just shove 'em around a bit.

That's what she said.

I thought that as well.

 

[davesparks]

I would reckon the time the lights were fitted, they didn’t have H+S telling you not to use a ladder

Do they tell us not to use ladders now?

 

[Sintra]

What about a painter's mate ladder

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9mWj5Tw2o8

 

[DPG]

What about a painter's mate ladder

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9mWj5Tw2o8

Liking the 3rd leg (she said) for stability. Not sure about being enclosed in the cage though - bit restrictive?

 

[Baddegg]

I don’t like the look of that!.....let’s leave it to the painters ?

 

[littlespark]

Do they tell us not to use ladders now?

Now, @davesparks we all know what I meant. and as mentioned on a previous post..... 3 points of contact on the ladder..... only to be used for access and not working from.
Its all down to the heights involved and common sense.

 

[davesparks]

Now, @davesparks we all know what I meant. and as mentioned on a previous post..... 3 points of contact on the ladder..... only to be used for access and not working from.
Its all down to the heights involved and common sense.

Yes, 3 points of contact, but as taught on the last working at height I did your knees can be points of contact.

They shouldn't be used for long periods of working, but for short duration tasks such as changing lamps and fault finding I see no reason not to work from a ladder of it's the only access equipment which sensibly fits the task.

The suggestions in this thread about having scaffold built or using powered access inside a church seem ridiculous to my mind.
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Liking the 3rd leg (she said) for stability. Not sure about being enclosed in the cage though - bit restrictive?

That's not much different to the basket on a tallescope.

 

[haptism]

What you need H is a Mi tower from hss hire

 

[ipf]

I use ladders quite regularly. As long as they're footed and common sense is used, no problem.
I did use scaffold in a church last year for changing some lamps to led corns. They were central (no walls) and we just shifted the pews to suit.

In one old church I installed a winch in the attic for a multi lamp fitting.
EDIT. The pews were old, fixed and couldn't be seperated.

 

[DPG]

Yes, 3 points of contact, but as taught on the last working at height I did your knees can be points of contact.

They shouldn't be used for long periods of working, but for short duration tasks such as changing lamps and fault finding I see no reason not to work from a ladder of it's the only access equipment which sensibly fits the task.

The suggestions in this thread about having scaffold built or using powered access inside a church seem ridiculous to my mind.
[automerge]1583956989[/automerge]


That's not much different to the basket on a tallescope.

Had to Google that Dave. Useful bit of kit, bet they're not cheap.

 

[davesparks]

I use ladders quite regularly. As long as they're footed and common sense is used, no problem.
I did use scaffold in a church last year for changing some lamps to led corns. They were central (no walls) and we just shifted the pews to suit.

In one old church I installed a winch in the attic for a multi lamp fitting.

That's OK if the pews aren't fixed
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Had to Google that Dave. Useful bit of kit, bet they're not cheap.

A tallescope? You'll find one in pretty much every theatre, they're pretty much a standard piece of access equipment.

They're a bit unnerving until you get used to them, they can be a bit wobbly at full extension!

 

[James]

in a church, surely god will protect you?

on a more serious note, never attempt to do a job without the right equipment.
chance it with a ladder, you can get away with it for years but one day it WILL get you.

the church will not provide for you whilst you lie crippled.

 

[littlespark]

Church floors don't tend to be very accommodating if you land on one at speed from a great height.

 

[ipf]

Church floors don't tend to be very accommodating if you land on one at speed from a great height.

Invariably better than factories, I'll tell ya.

 

[BruceBanner]

Tower hire, no one pays if you have fall, Travis renting 5 mtr working height for £52.00 + vat down here for the week.

 

[DPG]

Tower hire, no one pays if you have fall, Travis renting 5 mtr working height for £52.00 + vat down here for the week.

a bargain that.

 

[littlespark]

I acquired my own Boss tower from previous employment. 4 heights, wheels, legs, enough poles and extra platforms.

handy for Xmas decorations on own house.

 

[KennyKen]

Can’t you hire David Blaine for the day?

 

[telectrix]

or Dymamo:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qWOjdEO28o

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

My local Brandon store match the Web prices for Towers.

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