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Discuss Negotiations going as expected.... in the Electricians Chat - Off Topic Chat area at ElectriciansForums.net

Ah Ha! I'm back in the thread...
I've seen it several times,and i organised a "Taxi at T/O speed",for me dad,on our other Lancaster,The Lady Jane,which has four engines ready to fit,and a good hope of flying again :)

I took the FIL and a mate of his last year for a "trip" on Just Jane to celebrate their 80th birthdays - I tripped over the information when researching the loss of my mum's cousin who served as a navigator in 635 Squadron - he was on his 46 mission !

An expensive day out BUT worth every penny!

Just Jane.jpg


Just Jane.jpg
Just Jane.jpg
Just Jane 2.jpg


And my view from my "ride" position as the bomb aimer!

Just Jane 3.jpg
 
That's a damn shame then. That must have been the one that flew down the poppy line at the last 40's weekend I went to in North Norfolk. Apparently the pilot got a -------ing for going too low, the noise from those 4 engines was unbelievable, I can't imagine what a whole squadron would have sounded like. It was fantastic I will never forget it!
Anyway stuff em I am going to spend all morning hoovering with my 2Kw German cleaner in protest. Don't know what Mrs Burnout will think though

Here you are,this will give you an idea of what my poor missus has to deal with...

When we first moved in to our present home,she chose most of domestic goods,but i insisted,that i would pick the vacuum.
"Oh don't pick something massive and silly..." she remarked,and i assured her,the best item to select,was a quality machine,made by Stihl...

"Oh why do you always have to do this...I'm NOT having petrol fumes filling the house!..."

Bless her,she genuinely believed,i was purchasing a pull-start,two-stroke vac...:p
 
What's it got to do with lamps? A 500W vacuum cleaner uses 25% less energy than a 2000w one, but if you run it for 4 times as long,
I can't believe you actually agree with that yourself Sparks.
It's not about the actual watts no, it's about efficiency. It's possible to make a 500w vacuume cleaner with as much suck as an older 2000w one and I know that you as an electrician also know that. Which makes me wonder why you're pursuing that particular line of debate.
This is heppening the world over with all sorts of energy using appliances.
 
I can't believe you actually agree with that yourself Sparks.
It's not about the actual watts no, it's about efficiency. It's possible to make a 500w vacuume cleaner with as much suck as an older 2000w one and I know that you as an electrician also know that. Which makes me wonder why you're pursuing that particular line of debate.
This is heppening the world over with all sorts of energy using appliances.
Well, I beg to differ. MIL has got one, made a great show of offering to lend it us when we ran out of bags for our energy gobbling one, all singing and dancing latest low energy one as is being argued about. Bloody thing was useless, took me at least twice as long to do the stairs and car, and still didn't make as good a job.
 
I took the FIL and a mate of his last year for a "trip" on Just Jane to celebrate their 80th birthdays - I tripped over the information when researching the loss of my mum's cousin who served as a navigator in 635 Squadron - he was on his 46 mission !

An expensive day out BUT worth every penny!

View attachment 38008

View attachment 38008 View attachment 38008 View attachment 38010

And my view from my "ride" position as the bomb aimer!

View attachment 38011
Fantastic Murdoch, I can't imagine how it must be to actually get in the air in one. I have been in them on the ground, and I was quite shocked at what a bare and brutal sort of environment it was.
 
i'd love to try a 500watt vac. on my wall chaser. my henry 1000watt struggles to get more than 75% of the dust.
 
Well, I beg to differ. MIL has got one, made a great show of offering to lend it us when we ran out of bags for our energy gobbling one, all singing and dancing latest low energy one as is being argued about. Bloody thing was useless, took me at least twice as long to do the stairs and car, and still didn't make as good a job.
Well I can't really argue with you on that Sparks.
If you're prepared to ignore all you know of efficiency and modern motors compared to older motors, ignore your own experiances over the last 30 or so years, ignore expert reaserch and the likes of experts like James Dyson because someone showed you a useless vacuum cleaner. Then you are not going to be won round by anything I say.
 
anyone who deals with dyson knows that they are there just to make as much money as possible out of punters who purchase their over priced crap vacs. "need a new set of carbon brushes? buy a new dyson vac."
 
i'd love to try a 500watt vac. on my wall chaser. my henry 1000watt struggles to get more than 75% of the dust.
Don't forget this only applies to domestic vacuums Tel, you can still buy industrial ones.
Just had a look on the Henry web site. Seems they do 3 basic domestic vacuums the 160, 200 and 240. The largest the 240 has a 620w motor.
 
Well I can't really argue with you on that Sparks.
If you're prepared to ignore all you know of efficiency and modern motors compared to older motors, ignore your own experiances over the last 30 or so years, ignore expert reaserch and the likes of experts like James Dyson because someone showed you a useless vacuum cleaner. Then you are not going to be won round by anything I say.
Dyson's are pants, i've tried one.
 
dysons are OK untill 1 week after the guarantee runs out. a bit like the amstrad crap that sugar was flogging 30 years ago, but less customer appeal.
 
anyone who deals with dyson knows that they are there just to make as much money as possible out of punters who purchase their over priced crap vacs. "need a new set of carbon brushes? buy a new dyson vac."
Crikey Tel, better not let Mrs Pete999 see this we have one, a Dyson that is, not my choice by the way, but being a chauvinist, I leave all household purchases to Her, would hate it if She tried to tell me what sort of tools I should by, might give me grief for buying any, but that's a different subject, oh and She has named it Oleg, now what can I call my latest acquisition?
 
Crikey Tel, better not let Mrs Pete999 see this we have one, a Dyson that is, not my choice by the way, but being a chauvinist, I leave all household purchases to Her, would hate it if She tried to tell me what sort of tools I should by, might give me grief for buying any, but that's a different subject, oh and She has named it Oleg, now what can I call my latest acquisition?
any decent vacuum that sucks well should be called Monica.
 
Fantastic Murdoch, I can't imagine how it must be to actually get in the air in one. I have been in them on the ground, and I was quite shocked at what a bare and brutal sort of environment it was.

Our trip wasn't in the air - just on the ground............ 2000 revs on all 4 engines, then off down the short runway ............ simply amazing!

And yes a brutal environment - tail end charlie - the rear gunner had no heating and couldn't really leave his post for a No 1 - for up to 9 hours.........
 
dysons are OK untill 1 week after the guarantee runs out. a bit like the amstrad crap that sugar was flogging 30 years ago, but less customer appeal.
God yeah that stuff was proper rubbish. I knew it was going to be when I heard him saying that "there is too much duplication in stereo equipment" duh......
 
Our trip wasn't in the air - just on the ground............ 2000 revs on all 4 engines, then off down the short runway ............ simply amazing!

And yes a brutal environment - tail end charlie - the rear gunner had no heating and couldn't really leave his post for a No 1 - for up to 9 hours.........
could never understand why the taill turret did not have sonme armour plate protection. after all, this was the lancaster's main defence for nightfighters. once tail end gunner was killed, defence was gone.
 
I took the FIL and a mate of his last year for a "trip" on Just Jane to celebrate their 80th birthdays - I tripped over the information when researching the loss of my mum's cousin who served as a navigator in 635 Squadron - he was on his 46 mission !

An expensive day out BUT worth every penny!

View attachment 38008

View attachment 38008 View attachment 38008 View attachment 38010

And my view from my "ride" position as the bomb aimer!

View attachment 38011
Nice, my Uncle flew Wellingtons then Mosquitos in 305 Squadron, my Mum also served in the same Squadron for 4 years.
 
Back to the EU, the powers to be like in any divorce will argue about money, the UK oddly enough are one of the most honest members and over the years have mainly stuck to the rules, regs and paid in what they should have unlike a lot of other countries who have just fecked around, look at the French and the Spanish.

They, I mean the Germans, French and Belgiums want to give us a good kicking and want us to fail as if we succeed then some other countries may think, "if the UK can do it then so can we".

The Northern EU countries have totally screwed over the Southern countries just look at the rate of youth unemployment in Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy.
 
The Northern EU countries have totally screwed over the Southern countries just look at the rate of youth unemployment in Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy.

because the above just rolled over, same as in 1930's. they's have done same to us if we hadn't got the balls to stand up to them. sod paying them billions. we should tell adolph meerkat to sod off, we're out. what she going to do about it? send over the luftwaffe again?
 
The Northern EU countries have totally screwed over the Southern countries just look at the rate of youth unemployment in Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy.

because the above just rolled over, same as in 1930's. they's have done same to us if we hadn't got the balls to stand up to them. sod paying them billions. we should tell adolph meerkat to sod off, we're out. what she going to do about it? send over the luftwaffe again?
Sensible answers please Tel see post 4
 
sorry pete. i've not got a postcard. (post #4). :(
 
The Northern EU countries have totally screwed over the Southern countries just look at the rate of youth unemployment in Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy.

because the above just rolled over, same as in 1930's. they's have done same to us if we hadn't got the balls to stand up to them. sod paying them billions. we should tell adolph meerkat to sod off, we're out. what she going to do about it? send over the luftwaffe again?
Sensible answers please Tel see post 4
sorry pete. i've not got a postcard. (post #4). :(
Don't know if you are being your usual jovial self, but not with you Tel
 
see paste of your quoted post#4 below.

Sensible answers only please, on a postcard if necessary.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
you know me pete. a 6.00 am.dip in the Mersey does wonders for my sarcastic humour.
 
no larks in the Mersey, only Liver Birds.
 
i meant these pair.they sit on top of the Liver Building all day, but if you are patient, around 6.00a.m. and 10.00p.m.they fly down for a swim. it's a bit suicidal because they're made of bronze.


220px-Royal_Liver_Building.jpg

164px-Liver_Bird.jpg
 
i meant these pair.they sit on top of the Liver Building all day, but if you are patient, around 6.00a.m. and 10.00p.m.they fly down for a swim. it's a bit suicidal because they're made of bronze.


220px-Royal_Liver_Building.jpg

164px-Liver_Bird.jpg
Yeah Right
 
Back to the op, at the week end the EU negotiator told a group of people, off the record, in Italy that he was going to punish the UK and educate us ........

I've yet to hear him clarify what he meant or deny it ........
 
The Northern States fecked over the Southern States as they needed labour to work the rubbish jobs to pay in to the social system, look at the Germans and what they get in retirement pension wise compared to the UK, thus they needed the labour Merkel thought it would be a good idea to let the muslims in but al they do is take out of the system.
 
Back to the op, at the week end the EU negotiator told a group of people, off the record, in Italy that he was going to punish the UK and educate us ........

I've yet to hear him clarify what he meant or deny it ........
don't worry about Italy, they'll change sides in a year or so.
 
I have more to add
My opinion thats been rated 8 to 2 in favour of dislike of my post,it seems to be a true reflection of this forums overall rejection of the Eu by a large majority
Whilst I have not changed my own stance one bit,I do have some thoughts that may not be so contencious

Its all to do with the latest rantings of the man who I believe is mainly responsible for the majority vote to leave the Eu,one Tony Blair

It was he who caused one of the main issues that has divided the UK
In a selfish and very damaging way he opened the door to a worldwide increase in immigration that has repercussions to this day,all done so that the new labour vote would likely increase on the back of these new arrivals and secure his type of socialism for a generation,it backfired spectacularly

The referendum was a democratic vote where the majority held a different view to my own, I accept that for the will of the people of the UK and can go along with that choice that was made

What I find annoying is to read this fake socialist in the news dishing out ideas that he thinks will sort out the problem,when it was himself that caused the problem in his time in office
His failings in this and his lap dog stance with the American president in foreign conflicts makes him the last person for anyone to take heed
He needs to shut up,enjoy the fortune he has amassed on the back of a working mans party and maybe emigrate himself
 
we should club together for his fare ( on a leaky small boat, confiscated from would be immigrants, a couple of pounds of semtex on a timer in the bilges ).
 
I have more to add
My opinion thats been rated 8 to 2 in favour of dislike of my post,it seems to be a true reflection of this forums overall rejection of the Eu by a large majority
Whilst I have not changed my own stance one bit,I do have some thoughts that may not be so contencious

Its all to do with the latest rantings of the man who I believe is mainly responsible for the majority vote to leave the Eu,one Tony Blair

It was he who caused one of the main issues that has divided the UK
In a selfish and very damaging way he opened the door to a worldwide increase in immigration that has repercussions to this day,all done so that the new labour vote would likely increase on the back of these new arrivals and secure his type of socialism for a generation,it backfired spectacularly

The referendum was a democratic vote where the majority held a different view to my own, I accept that for the will of the people of the UK and can go along with that choice that was made

What I find annoying is to read this fake socialist in the news dishing out ideas that he thinks will sort out the problem,when it was himself that caused the problem in his time in office
His failings in this and his lap dog stance with the American president in foreign conflicts makes him the last person for anyone to take heed
He needs to shut up,enjoy the fortune he has amassed on the back of a working mans party and maybe emigrate himself

You comments are very much the consensus of remainers who have a very shallow narrow minded reasoning of why people voted out without digging deeper

It has cost my mates business somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 a million pounds to comply with an EU directive just so he can sell his goods having got approval in the UK this does not carry across all EU member states as you would expect and so the spend continues in each and every state he has customers he has to get it approved by their approval authority, on top of this some crazy EU bureaucrats were considering monitoring the background levels of ethylene in the atmosphere and raising a tax on ethylene production for fruit ripening if levels were found to be increasing

There are probably many more similar examples of EU bureaucracy that is costing business millions of pounds that is ultimately passed onto the person buying the goods

Add to that the corrupt EU commission who are a law unto themselves and apparently answer to no one

The remainers really need to look at the wider issues of the EU instead of just accepting the status quo it is very patronising continually being told why I and many others voted out when the reasons given are no where near the real facts, both referendum campaigns were very poor and light on fact, what was the deal that Cameron's shuffle diplomacy negotiated that the EU said they would renege on really says a lot about the EU, yes the out campaign promised things that were pie in the sky but both sides did that
Barnier is making out he is playing hard ball with the leave negotiation the truth is he has nothing to work with because the EU hierarchy won't allow him any scope and the EU are hoping that leaving doesn't happen. To revoke article 50 now would allow the EU to set the terms of our continued membership and give them a free for all
The problem at the moment is two fold
There are the financial markets who seem to be propping up the Euro when the Euro zone could be a bit of a lame duck with a budget black hole once brexit goes through
And the non democratic remainers who are fighting for democracy telling us we got it wrong and we need to carry on voting until we get it right
This country is in a hole right now because so many people are talking it and brexit down at every opportunity let's be positive and move forward
 
UNG's comments above are now even further reinforced by the intransigent, stubborn and downright childish stance reported on in today's news. Quite obviously, the EU "negotiators" have no intention of conducting any meaningful dialogue, and are only concerned with attempting to extract the maximum amount of money from the UK in a pathetic attempt to both punish us for daring to leave their "club", and/or to bolster the kitty which our departure will leave somewhat depleted. As I have thought since day one, the only hope is when the bosses of the likes of BMW and so on become involved and take over from the non-elected, dictatorial and self proclaimed "leaders" of the federal state of Europe, the existence of whom are justification enough, in my opinion, to wave goodbye to this farce, let alone the multitude of other benefits.
 
oh how i wish we could bring back margaret thatcher. she'd sort them eu pillocks out in no time.
 
The current stalemate that the negotiations have hit doesn't appear to help either side and the hard line no room for movement stance of the EU isn't helping when trying to find a solution.
I suppose the question that needs answering is what would a no deal exit mean for both sides and which one has more to lose.
With all the media speculation and the endless number of so called experts wheeled out to bolster all sides of the remain / leave, soft / hard / no deal brexit it is difficult filter out the real facts from the speculative scare fiction that is being pedalled, On that March day in 2019 will things just stop, pre the new millennium, the millennium bug was going to bring the world to a grinding halt on the stroke of new years day did that happen no, so to 2019 is the brexit bug going to bring things to a grinding halt between the UK and EU especially if there is no deal I doubt it, it will probably not be all plain sailing but businesses will adapt on both sides.
I think the EU has more to lose with a no deal as it will need to very quickly need to sort out it's budget having lost a major contributor to the coffers, in the short to medium term the 27 remaining states will have a job on to keep the EU together as pressure is put on their own budgets in order to prop up the EU and in the more prosperous states where most of the burden is likely to fall the populous may begin to question the value of the EU

There is more to brexit than the UK leaving the EU and it seems the EU leaders have their fingers in their ears and their eyes closed, with the current situation should the UK withdraw from the negotiations in my opinion at this moment it would have to be yes as much as we need a trade deal with the EU they need a trade deal with the UK, the EU needs to set out it's position as much as the UK needs to.
Negotiation is normally undertaken to find a middle ground consensus, something that the EU's negotiator Barnier and his bosses seem to have overlooked with their demands
 
The current stalemate that the negotiations have hit doesn't appear to help either side and the hard line no room for movement stance of the EU isn't helping when trying to find a solution.
I suppose the question that needs answering is what would a no deal exit mean for both sides and which one has more to lose.
With all the media speculation and the endless number of so called experts wheeled out to bolster all sides of the remain / leave, soft / hard / no deal brexit it is difficult filter out the real facts from the speculative scare fiction that is being pedalled, On that March day in 2019 will things just stop, pre the new millennium, the millennium bug was going to bring the world to a grinding halt on the stroke of new years day did that happen no, so to 2019 is the brexit bug going to bring things to a grinding halt between the UK and EU especially if there is no deal I doubt it, it will probably not be all plain sailing but businesses will adapt on both sides.
I think the EU has more to lose with a no deal as it will need to very quickly need to sort out it's budget having lost a major contributor to the coffers, in the short to medium term the 27 remaining states will have a job on to keep the EU together as pressure is put on their own budgets in order to prop up the EU and in the more prosperous states where most of the burden is likely to fall the populous may begin to question the value of the EU

There is more to brexit than the UK leaving the EU and it seems the EU leaders have their fingers in their ears and their eyes closed, with the current situation should the UK withdraw from the negotiations in my opinion at this moment it would have to be yes as much as we need a trade deal with the EU they need a trade deal with the UK, the EU needs to set out it's position as much as the UK needs to.
Negotiation is normally undertaken to find a middle ground consensus, something that the EU's negotiator Barnier and his bosses seem to have overlooked with their demands
Trigering artical 50 was about the UK leaving the EU, nothing else. Trade deals are a seperate thing entirely, we requested early talks on our trading relationship with the EU and as it would be to the EUs benifit as well as the UKs the EU agreed to early talks as long as sufficient progress had been made in the exit negotions, mainly the settlement figure, EUs citizens rights and the Irish border. This has not happened.
Don't believe the deluded claims by some of the more rabid brexiters that they have more to lose than us, 44% of our trade is to the EU, just 15% of theirs is to us. It's very very important to the EU but a lot more important to us. Also the loss or revenue from us is overstated, it's generally accepted that our net contribution is £10b, not a small sum but in an economy the size of the EU not a great deal. And don't forget this is between 27 countries, so £370m each (not much more per year than our NHS will be better off per week apparently)
Regarding planes flying to Europe the day after we leave, I believe they will. But guess what? that will need an agreement to be signed, you cant get away from it.
 
I am not entirely sure about the loss of income as described in Andy's post. I do not profess to be in possession of the exact figures, however is it not the case that the UK, Germany and France between them make up the bulk of the contributions? A lot of the other member states contribute very little, indeed I wouldn't mind betting that some of them just purely benefit. I don't think that, just using common sense, it is realistic to say the loss of our contributions will be overstated, or anything other than a disaster for the EU. That is why they are behaving in the stubborn and negative manner you see at present. I am sure that the bulk of these 27 countries contribute nothing like the big 3. I have just watched Junkers on TV this lunchtime, the man is a vindictive idiot.
 

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