Advice wanted - unhappy with rewire

[Sarah123]

Hi all

Hoping I could get some independent advice on here. We've just bought our first property and had to get a full house rewire on the property (3 bed semi). Our electricians had finished the work within 2 days (2 electricians working on it). When asked when they were coming back, they said they didn't need to come back for a second fix as they'd finished it all. As we didn't know any better, we assumed all was fine and paid up because that said they wouldn't give paperwork till payment was made.

Since then, we have had a few issues. Our plasterer has been really surprised at the poor standard of work - they have had to plaster around all sockets and spotlights in kitchen.

1. The holes made to put in the sockets are generally quite a bit larger than the face of the external socket casing.
2. One of the sockets had a loose wire that was not connected when the plasterer was plastering around.
3. Another socket melted the builder's plug (smoke coming out as well), but didn't activate the trip switch.
4. An armoured cable they put in to light the garage is coming out of the consumer unit and through the floorboards in the bedroom in front of (rather than behind) the skirting board.
5. No paperwork 3 weeks after despite chasing him for this before everything else happened.

Would really appreciate any feedback as not sure if these are common or we really are within our rights to be taking this further? We tried contacting the electrician a couple of days ago, but he's not able to come till Monday evening, but his general response is telling me that he's blaming the plasterer's work.

Thanks!

 

[Baddegg]

Got any pics Sarah?

 

[Midwest]

As in all these things, you have to allow the tradesperson to finish their work.

 

[telectrix]

i have a mate in Leeds. NICEIC approved contractor, who hates seeing. shoddy work by cowboys. if you want, I can ask him to call and give you an unbiassed opinion.

 

[Sarah123]

Hi baddegg - good idea!


armoured cable in front of skirting board


wire disconnected


A couple of examples of cutting around sockets.



Melted plug socket

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[Sarah123]

As in all these things, you have to allow the tradesperson to finish their work.

Thanks midwest- they've finished and it's been paid for. It doesn't sound like they want to do much else from the response we've had so far.

 

[Midwest]

i have a mate in Leeds. NICEIC approved contractor, who hates seeing. shoddy work by cowboys. if you want, I can ask him to call and give you an unbiassed opinion.

Somewhat jumping the gun, are we not?

 

[Sarah123]

i have a mate in Leeds. NICEIC approved contractor, who hates seeing. shoddy work by cowboys. if you want, I can ask him to call and give you an unbiassed opinion.

Thanks Telectrix - will see what happens and if we need to take it further, will message.

 

[Midwest]

Hi baddegg - good idea!

View attachment 47960
armoured cable in front of skirting board

View attachment 47961
wire disconnected

View attachment 47962
A couple of examples of cutting around sockets.
View attachment 47963

View attachment 47964
Melted plug socket

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Whilst not pretty, we've seen worse. Have you put forward your concerns?

 

[telectrix]

not after seeing those pics. SWA in front of skirting board, ans did they use a JCB to cut out the sockets?

 

[Midwest]

Thanks midwest- they've finished and it's been paid for. It doesn't sound like they want to do much else from the response we've had so far.

You said 'We tried contacting the electrician a couple of days ago, but he's not able to come till Monday evening'.

 

[telectrix]

it all looks arse about face to me. why have they fitted sockets before filling and plastering has been done?

 

[Midwest]

not after seeing those pics. SWA in front of skirting board, ans did they use a JCB to cut out the sockets?

Not being funny, but the rest of the refurbishment looks rubbish as well, including the plasterer who seems to be slagging off to the client about the electrics.

 

[Baddegg]

As others have said not tidy but not as bad as it could be and in the sparks defence the loose wire could’ve been caused by anyone moving that socket front.....did you agree to him second fixing before the spreads had been in?

 

[Sarah123]

You said 'We tried contacting the electrician a couple of days ago, but he's not able to come till Monday evening'.

Yes I sent a detailed message with all the concerns and a couple others. He said the plasterer probably pulled out the wire while plastering and it's necessary to remove that much wall to get to sockets. He didn't respond to the other points, but like I said he's coming over Monday. I just want to know whether we should be arguing this on Monday or we're just clueless first time homebuyers! Is it normal to not do a second fix?

 

[Sarah123]

As others have said not tidy but not as bad as it could be and in the sparks defence the loose wire could’ve been caused by anyone moving that socket front.....did you agree to him second fixing before the spreads had been in?

No - he just told us it wasn't necessary... not knowing any different, we went along with it.

 

[Baddegg]

Well I wouldn’t second fix till after the spreads been in, but not unheard off.......unless you like ya sockets full of gypsum

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

the holes might not be the tidiest but in fairness some walls when you chase them out crumble and lumps come out. the chasing doesn't look that bad to be fair from what I can see on the cable runs.
what was specified or agreed with how the armoured cable will be installed as from what i see the reason its in front the skirting board is because it comes out directly above from the consumer unit. even if behind it will still need to come out the wall a few inches below the bottom.

 

[plugsandsparks]

That wire that has come out could well be live !!

I dont do domestic, but when i did, it was traditional to do first fix before the plasterer and 2nd fix after, painting could be done before 2nd fix or after, i preferred after because i am a bit nervous about marking the paint when 2nd fixing, its so easy to do.
Others may well comment on whether this method of 1st and 2nd fix before plastering is progress in the industry

 

[Andy78]

The second fix has been done. That is the connection of all the accessories, testing, and energising.

This should not have been done ahead of the plastering but that is down to what arrangements were in place between you and all trades.

You should have received an EIC and building control paperwork.... keep pestering them for this, all in written form, and if they ignore you it's time to get in touch with trading standards and/or the scheme that your electrician belongs to.

 

[GMES]

Write down all your concerns and then share them with the Electrician on Monday.
It's very important to give him chance to put his side across and if need be put the things right before going down any legal routes.
If he is totally dismissive or rude and refuses to do anything about it , then you take things further.

 

[Sarah123]

As others have said not tidy but not as bad as it could be and in the sparks defence the loose wire could’ve been caused by anyone moving that socket front.....did you agree to him second fixing before the spreads had been in?

No - he just told us it wasn't necessary... not knowing any different, we went along with it.

the holes might not be the tidiest but in fairness some walls when you chase them out crumble and lumps come out. the chasing doesn't look that bad to be fair from what I can see on the cable runs.
what was specified or agreed with how the armoured cable will be installed as from what i see the reason its in front the skirting board is because it comes out directly above from the consumer unit. even if behind it will still need to come out the wall a few inches below the bottom.

There wasn't a conversation about where the cable would go, so we didn't agree or not agree to that. I guess the whole unit will have to be boxed over, just wondering if that's standard practice.

The second fix has been done. That is the connection of all the accessories, testing, and energising.

This should not have been done ahead of the plastering but that is down to what arrangements were in place between you and all trades.

You should have received an EIC and building control paperwork.... keep pestering them for this, all in written form, and if they ignore you it's time to get in touch with trading standards and/or the scheme that your electrician belongs to.

Yeh - this wasn't agreed or disagreed. They just told us they wouldn't be back for a second fix as it wasn't necessary. We've only realised how much of an issue it's become since the plasterer is having a hard time covering round it... and how much easier (and better it would look) if things were done in order.

 

[Sarah123]

Write down all your concerns and then share them with the Electrician on Monday.
It's very important to give him chance to put his side across and if need be put the things right before going down any legal routes.
If he is totally dismissive or rude and refuses to do anything about it , then you take things further.

Yes this definitely sounds fair - I've emailed him a list and we will discuss it further in Monday. Just concerned that he didn't really seem to think any of it was a problem. I guess we'll see how the conversation goes Monday.

 

[Sarah123]

The second fix has been done. That is the connection of all the accessories, testing, and energising.

This should not have been done ahead of the plastering but that is down to what arrangements were in place between you and all trades.

You should have received an EIC and building control paperwork.... keep pestering them for this, all in written form, and if they ignore you it's time to get in touch with trading standards and/or the scheme that your electrician belongs to.

Also how quickly is paperwork usually done? It's been three weeks and I checked on NICEIC (who they're registered with) and no work's been registered...

 

[Andy78]

Also how quickly is paperwork usually done? It's been three weeks and I checked on NICEIC (who they're registered with) and no work's been registered...

It's usually 28 days after work completion for work to be notified.

 

[Sarah123]

It's usually 28 days after work completion for work to be notified.

Good to know - thanks

 

[telectrix]

this is how it should look.

 

[Andy78]

I'll have finished a first fix rewire by the end of Tuesday. Plasterers are coming in to fill my chases and skim every wall after that. Customer asked if I could second fix before the plasterer but I refused because it will make the plasterers job more difficult and probably result in soiled/damaged accessories.
That's how it should be to my mind. The quality of the finished job is worth more than getting my final invoice in early.

 

[dinger809]

Hi, looking at those pics, putting back boxes in solid walls, you nearly always end up with larger holes than the boxes, due to the nature of brick/block work and plaster breaking off.
As others have said, fixing the face plates back, should be done after the plastering and painting has been completed.
As for the live coming out, with all due respect, if this had been fixed I’m securely (I always give my conductors a good tug to ensure they’re secure) it shouldn’t have happened, even if the plasterer has pulled the socket, as this could happen to anyone taking off the face plate in this instance.
A loose conductor should have been detected during testing, with a higher resistance reading. It would be interesting to see the schedule of test results for this circuit

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

I will weigh in here with my opinion.In general,from the photos,it doesn't look a bad job at all.There are grommets in the boxes,sleeved earth wires etc.The main issue is that they have put the socket fronts on before the plasterer has done his bit.Also the swa in front of the skirting could have been done better but generally a cupboard would be built around the consumer unit and wiring which would cover the swa,so really it's not too big a problem.
The wire coming out of the socket is due to the plasterer pulling it too far forward and yeah it should have been tighter.
The blown single socket looks like it's been caused by what ever was plugged into it,not the socket or the wiring.But with out taking off the single socket to check behind,its only speculation.
So in general the install isn't as bad as everyone is making out ie calling them cowboys etc.Trust me I have seen alot worse.
The only real crime these electrician's have committed is second fixing too early in my opinion.

 

[telectrix]

and cutting out for boxes with a wrecking ball. no excuse when we have angle grinders and the like enabling neat cut outs requiring the minimum of filling.

 

[dinger809]

Also, the cables should have had capping over them before the plasterer does his bit, to stop the plaster rotting the cables. This is a job for the electrician and is part of the first fix

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Plastering looks doggers.

Boxes are not to bad, more care probably would have been taken if the plasterers wernt following

Agree plasterer before second fix, however the client has possibly asked for it this was as a lived in house?

 

[Dave OCD]

I think it's shoddy, I'd definitely have put the chased in new cables in oval tubing or at the very least capping and fixed it back properly too. And they're definitely not clean workers.

 

[telectrix]

plaster does not rot cables.old wives tale from the days of lime plaster and rubber cables.

 

[dinger809]

plaster does not rot cables.old wives tale from the days of lime plaster and rubber cables.

The cables should still have something over them, capping, tube or the like

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Not according to the regs they dont need to. Ovel tube everyday for me though

 

[Andy78]

The cables should still have something over them, capping, tube or the like

Not always needed at all and definitely not indicative of a bad job.

 

[Baddegg]

I always oval my cables dinger, but that’s more to prevent the spreads nicking the cable and just plastering it over, don’t believe there’s any requirement in the regs....

 

[dinger809]

Not always needed at all and definitely not indicative of a bad job.

I think it’s laziness and should be done. In my humble opinion it shows a lack of professionalism and personal pride.

 

[SJD]

The cables should still have something over them, capping, tube or the like

Depends, the capping or oval conduit is more to keep the plasterer from damaging the cables with their trowel.

One builder I sometimes work alongside, prefers to avoid capping as it tends to bulge and can lead to thin patches of plaster. But his guys are careful and can work with cables just clipped to the bricks/blocks without damaging them.

 

[dinger809]

Not always needed at all and definitely not indicative of a bad job.

I’ve not said the regs demand it, but as I said to another, in my opinion it should be done and shows a lack of professionalism and personal pride leaving the cables like that. It does protect them to during plastering and just feels (in my humble opinion) more professional

 

[Rpa07]

That brown doesn’t even look like it’s been clamped so the tug test probably wasn’t carried out. I know the electrician and his mate need to defend themselves so not wishing to come down heavy.
Is 2 days a bit of a rush for a full rewire with two of them. I feel it would lead to some sloppiness and with a want not to return to second fix but to do it all in one instead speaks of greed to me and not customer satisfaction.
I hope he steps up and puts all right and proves us wrong, for the sake of the trade.

 

[Sarah123]

Hi, looking at those pics, putting back boxes in solid walls, you nearly always end up with larger holes than the boxes, due to the nature of brick/block work and plaster breaking off.
As others have said, fixing the face plates back, should be done after the plastering and painting has been completed.
As for the live coming out, with all due respect, if this had been fixed I’m securely (I always give my conductors a good tug to ensure they’re secure) it shouldn’t have happened, even if the plasterer has pulled the socket, as this could happen to anyone taking off the face plate in this instance.
A loose conductor should have been detected during testing, with a higher resistance reading. It would be interesting to see the schedule of test results for this circuit

Thanks - that's a good point. We could ask for the schedule of test results. I'm hoping he'll be bringing some paperwork on Monday.

 

[Baddegg]

I would take some solice in the fact that if 2 people rewired a 3 bedhouse in 2 days they fairly experienced Sarah, if a little hasty,

 

[Sarah123]

That brown doesn’t even look like it’s been clamped so the tug test probably wasn’t carried out. I know the electrician and his mate need to defend themselves so not wishing to come down heavy.
Is 2 days a bit of a rush for a full rewire with two of them. I feel it would lead to some sloppiness and with a want not to return to second fix but to do it all in one instead speaks of greed to me and not customer satisfaction.
I hope he steps up and puts all right and proves us wrong, for the sake of the trade.

Thanks all for your replies - it's definitely helped us feel more justified in the concerns we have, but helped us to know what is reasonable to expect in terms of cutting out etc. All much appreciated

 

[Leesparkykent]

The chasing does look sloppy but the installation could be fine. To be totally honest the cock up seems like, lack of planning/naivety on your behalf which the electrician shouldn’t be held countable for imo. The installation could be turned off, unscrew the accessories, pull them forward, sandwich bag them up, plasterer can make good then screw the accessories back. Plasterer is probably making a mountain out of mole hill because his work looks rubbish!

 

[Blaspark]

Thanks all for your replies - it's definitely helped us feel more justified in the concerns we have, but helped us to know what is reasonable to expect in terms of cutting out etc. All much appreciated

Contact us - http://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk/Contact-Us
I wouldn't trust them to put it right. Contact their scheme. Ask them to help. Contact your local council and complain about people operating like that in the local area ask your council to liase with the scheme as well.

 

[Blaspark]

The chasing does look sloppy but the installation could be fine. To be totally honest the cock up seems like, lack of planning/naivety on your behalf which the electrician shouldn’t be held countable for imo. The installation could be turned off, unscrew the accessories, pull them forward, sandwich bag them up, plasterer can make good then screw the accessories back. Plasterer is probably making a mountain out of mole hill because his work looks rubbish!

If the electrician didn't test he should have made it very clear not to use the power. Either she's lying or the spark should be out of business. This is a Web forum, we can't decide

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

Contact us - http://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk/Contact-Us
I wouldn't trust them to put it right. Contact their scheme. Ask them to help. Contact your local council and complain about people operating like that in the local area ask your council to liase with the scheme as well.

Hold on there mate.A bit OTT.So for screwing accessories on too early they need reporting to numerous organisations for this heinous crime? Get a grip.It's posts like this that get my goat