Best type of lighting in stables

[Strima]

out of interest what have you wired it in?

Bare conductors and porcelain insulators. Do you know nothing?

 

[sparksburnout]

out of interest what have you wired it in?

Wellies and a waxed jacket?

 

[Percyprod]

You been spying Strima?. It has been wired to bs 7671. Should be isn't the same as must be.

 

[Devonchris]

The highway code is not a legal document. It is a code. An expected standard that any deviation from could land you in court. BS7671 is the same.

 

[suffolkspark]

whats it been wired in then you hav'nt said yet?

 

[PEG]

...Right then...In the true sense of the rules,he is correct,but in the same manner,Hitler was a serious socialist and never got a mention in Brighton,this week

I will not be quoting regs,or crabbing the OP's methodology,as we have not seen the installation,which could well be exemplary.

This is a similar situation,to the MOT exemptions for certain HGV's,which applied regarding street lighting,road marking,etc.
They did not need one,but gradually,the insurers requirement for record of maintenance,made it tricky not to use the MOT process,as proof of such.

I do a great deal of work,and have a great many friends,with equestrian yards,and here is a story...
One such fellow,lost three horses,in a night,due to series of common issues,occurring in a stable block,comprising of decent,well installed equipment.
Just 10mA is all they need...even the biggest Shire.

The investigation,and insurance claim,started a chain of events,which would have been not nearly as onerous,had the standard set of installation procedures,been voluntarily adhered to.

In fact,he was informed by the loss adjuster,the investigation,not just by themselves,but most of the other bodies,would have been "hugely restricted,if there was any paperwork regarding the block,to wave in front of people..." and that is a direct quote.

It's horses for courses...

 

[HandySparks]

...One such fellow,lost three horses,in a night,due to series of common issues,occurring in a stable block,comprising of decent,well installed equipment.

Sounds interesting. Do tell.

 

[Percyprod]

Some one has asked about the installation. Mains is in a brick built cubicle at the back of the stable block, which is 2 stables each 12 foot square and 10 foot high. The store is the same size. This is totally inaccessible to the horses. There is a two way consumer unit (ip65) with a 30ma rcd main switch, fed with 16mm tails. Earth is to a 6 foot earth rod. Wiring is in plastic conduit, two circuits. One 1.5 mm for lighting and 1 2.5mm for a socket. A seperate 2.5mm earth is run for each circuit. All switches and the socket are in the store. Again this cannot be accessed by the horses. All switches and the socket are to ip66. The light fittings are weatherproof led battens to ip65, and are mounted at the wall/roof join. Non of it would be accessible by the horses. The socket also has a built in rcd. I cannot see much wrong with that installation. Non of the wiring is outside. Anyway, we will see on Monday whether the supplier will meter and connect it.
I still maintain that I have not broken any laws or installed a dangerous system. The EWR do not apply, I am a competent person, as required by the regs, it does not say you have to be registered. I know part P does not apply, and is a different thing, but at the end of the day, how many people have been taken to court for not complying with the 17th edition unless it is a complete bodge. I bet very few.
Before anyone says I should have used steel conduit, I feel plastic is more suitable, it will not rust and provides sufficient mechanical protection. Yes I know about rodents, but that is a lesser problem.
I suppose Devonchris gave some good advice. The highway code is not a legal requirement, but you can end up in court if you don't comply. So what he is saying I suppose is that as most people use a phone, drink coffee, eat a sandwich or exceed the speed limit ie ignore the rules then that is ok, so I can likewise adjust the 17th edition as suits. I hasten to add that is not what I have done. I really can't see why you have all got so upset. Anyway, I'll let you all know what happens Monday. Have a good day.

 

[Percyprod]

Forgot to say two mcbs in CU, 6amp and 16amp

 

[suffolkspark]

Personally i do them in swa, but sounds okay to me, people got grumpy because of the way your attitude came accross in your early posts, i understand its difficult to convey emotion by text but you sounded an arse haha, anyway hope it all goes well.

 

[Percyprod]

Oops, sorry! It's what happens as you get older, you turn into a grumpy pensioner. Anyway, see what happens. I'm happy with it.

 

[telectrix]

appreciate that you have most likely done a good job, but can't understand why you don't want to complete an Installation Certificate.You would then have a written record and proof that the installation was safe. if, God forbid, there was a fire or injury at any time, it's the first thing your insurer would want to see.

 

[Percyprod]

Well, I could issue a certificate to myself I suppose.

 

[telectrix]

Well, I could issue a certificate to myself I suppose.

that's what we would all do. you can't very well have a horse in the client's details.

 

[Percyprod]

No, I asked the horses if I could put their names on it, but they all said nay. There you are straight from the horses mouth!

 

[MJPD29]

If you really like your horses is recommend a qualified electrician

 

[MJPD29]

Then again the hair on the back of their neck stands up all the time so who would be any the wiser if they got a buzz

 

[DPG]

Well, I could issue a certificate to myself I suppose.

Right, now this your most sensible post in the thread. This is exactly what you should do. Wire it to the regs (I've no doubt you have wired it very well), test it, fill in the appropriate installation cert. You are then covered in the event of any future occurences and saved from any awkward questions from insurance companies

 

[Devonchris]

Devonchris gave some good advice. The highway code is not a legal requirement, but you can end up in court if you don't comply. So what he is saying I suppose is that as most people use a phone, drink coffee, eat a sandwich or exceed the speed limit ie ignore the rules then that is ok, so I can likewise adjust the 17th edition as suits.

That's not what I said.

What ever Regs apply or do not, you owe a "duty of care" to anybody who may be visiting you property, ie Vets, Farrier or delivery drivers etc.

This link may be of interest to you?

Unlawful death by electrocution,caused by negligent electrical testing. - https://electrical-testing-safety.co.uk/why-we-test/unlawful-death

I am a competent person, as required by the regs,

No one is in any doubt about your level of competence or understanding of the Regulations. You have demonstrated that in your earlier replies.

(Read in to that what you will, your good at that)

 

[Phil Thompson]

BS7671 isn’t statutory however E@WR are statutory and states quite clearly that all requirements of BS7671 are adhered to. So in actual reality this then makes BS7671 law, albeit indirectly

If not for that then your attempt to manipulate the rules to suit yourself would probably have worked.

For the sake of printing off a few pages and taking the time to enter the results you will get from the testing you say you will do. It might add 30 minutes to your time to fill in the forms with the results. Hardly worthwhile trying to interpret the regs differently to save 30 mins or less.

 

[123]

Not done any work related to Horses for a few years, but seem to recall they are very sensitive to light colour (Metal Halide was a no no it had to be Sodium)...so might need fittings to be Warm White rather than Cool White/Day White

 

[PEG]

Sounds interesting. Do tell.

No probs...Standard installation for purpose,all visible wiring in conduit,steel trunking+lid above ceiling,lights and sockets rcd protected,6mm t+e in trunking for exterior water heater routed over cladding to outside wall.
Heater pulled down and cable damaged over cladding,isolator left on,drinker bowls on interior of stables mounted to wall with 120mm screws,which touched cladding on outside.
Neddy thirsty,Neddy place lips in drinker. Neddy rear legs in puddle to acco grill drain.
Neddy a resistor. Neddy dog food.

(The names of the deceased have been changed,to protect the innocent )

 

[Rpa07]

Alas Poor Neddy, I knew him so well!

 

[Andy78]

Think this job must be finished now as I think I saw one of the new residents for this installation being taken there on the motorway today....

 

[Des 56]

I suppose he had to be tied up,poor thing was reluctant to go there without rubber boots

 

[PEG]

I always wondered where the retirement home for paxolin ponies was...
I once sat on Red Rum,backwards...it was murder...etc etc

 

[Bsharp]

Just to add to this debate, which I have read with amusement, I can appreciate where the OP is coming from as the stables are not classed as agricultural as the horses are not being used for meat production or used as farm working animals, nor are the stables a commercial set up, so BS7671 does not specifically apply, obviously all electrical works should be tested and inspected and certification provided to prove its safety, we all know this.
But stables are a strange one as I said they re not commercial, agricultural or domestic.

 

[telectrix]

if the hosses pulled a plough, it's agricultural. if the end up on a plate with chips and stuff, then they're food. what other use can they have?

oh, got it..lining the pockets of the bookies.

 

[Bsharp]

I believe some folk take pleasure from just riding and keeping as pets. I know very peculiar these horsey types!!!!

 

[Percyprod]

Don't include me, like dogs and cats, I don't dislike them, but why does anyone in their right mind want one? They belong to swmbo. I'd prefer a goldfish.

 

[DPG]

Swmbo?

 

[Percyprod]

She who must be obeyed!

 

[telectrix]

my sister's a horsey mare, but she's puddled anyway.

 

[Percyprod]

Always told my son's if they meet a girl who says she likes horses, run a mile.

 

[DPG]

She who must be obeyed!

Doh.

 

[Andy78]

Always told my son's if they meet a girl who says she likes horses, run a mile.

Because then you'd have to extend the stables ?

 

[Rpa07]

Doh.

Have you got one of those rare breed DPG?

 

[Leesparkykent]

I can't believe I've never seen this thread before now.....My Mrs was asking me why I was laughing so much

 

[DPG]

Jeez where's this been resurrected from? Glad I've had a few beers. 1970s tribute band in the local club. Brill. ELO . Mr blue sky. Anyone? Is this thing on? ? Mines a theakstones. Anyone ?

 

[DPG]

OP - did you test the installation in the end?

 

[Taylortwocities]

OP - did you test the installation in the end?

And were the test results stable?

 

[telectrix]

gawd this thread's longer than a 70 year old' tarts pubic hairs. mods, please close.

 

[Percyprod]

Do I get an award for longest running thread? Horses still alive and well by the way.

 

[suffolkspark]

Did it all test out ok? Get some photos up of the install

 

[DPG]

Testing? Lol.
I can tell you the results now: "possibly better than before. Can't be any worse can it?"

 

[Percyprod]

As there was no installation before then I suppose it must be better. Yes, all tested, nothing went bang. I suppose you'll tell me that's not how you test it! I got in touch with an ex work colleague, who has all the test gear, which is calibrated up to date, and we checked it all out. I kept a record of the results, job done! You really must stop worrying about me, I'm fine, and so are the horses. I do appreciate your concern though!

 

[DPG]

You were banging on before about the regs not applying and it not needing testing. You're just arguing for arguing's sake.

And nobody is worrying about you.

 

[Percyprod]

But I got it tested on advice given on here. And surely some one cares just a little tiny bit, hmmm?

 

[DPG]

OK, a little bit.

 

[Percyprod]

Aw, I feel better now. Thanks!