UK Can't get an electrician to come out for a small job! So help needed!

[Novice]

Hi Due to Covid, I can't get an electrician to come out to fit a single semi flush lamp. So I am going to fit it myself.

So some advice would be very helpful - but if you live local to Stratford Upon Avon and happy to come out for a small job, please let me know.

At the moment there is a standard ceiling rose with what looks like 3 (red) loop wires.

I have looked at some online videos and they say use a Way Go connector for the loop wires - is this correct?

Fixing and assembling I can do - but I want to make sure that I am wiring the electrics properly.

I've attached some photos - is there any tips you can offer?

Thanks in advance!

 

[westward10]

Hello, can't see no pics and would help if we could see the new fitting.

 

[telectrix]

if you have 3 reds, wago them but do not connect to light. then you will have 3 blacks. 2 will be N to light, 1 will be switched L to light. hoefully the switched L (black) will have a bit of red sleeve onit. make sure the earths are all connected and also to the light if it has provision for earths.

 

[Novice]

Hello, can't see no pics and would help if we could see the new fitting.

 

[DPG]

Was that earth wire already out of that terminal?

 

[Novice]

Hi Due to Covid, I can't get an electrician to come out to fit a single semi flush lamp. So I am going to fit it myself.

So some advice would be very helpful - but if you live local to Stratford Upon Avon and happy to come out for a small job, please let me know.

At the moment there is a standard ceiling rose with what looks like 3 (red) loop wires.

I have looked at some online videos and they say use a Way Go connector for the loop wires - is this correct?

Fixing and assembling I can do - but I want to make sure that I am wiring the electrics properly.

I've attached some photos - is there any tips you can offer?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Novice]

Was that earth wire already out of that terminal?

No, I started to take the rose off, then realised it wasn't going to be a simple switch over job. So I put rewired it.

 

[Novice]

Was that earth wire already out of that terminal?

if you have 3 reds, wago them but do not connect to light. then you will have 3 blacks. 2 will be N to light, 1 will be switched L to light. hoefully the switched L (black) will have a bit of red sleeve onit. make sure the earths are all connected and also to the light if it has provision for earths.

Thanks for this. Here are the photos. There are not 3 black.

 

[stevethesparks]

You have two reds and two blacks, one of the blacks has a red sleeve.
The one with the red sleeve on should be the switched live to the light (to brown). The black with no sleeve should be the neutral to the light (to blues) the remaining two reds to go into a two way wago. As the light fitting is double insulated/class2 the two earths (cpc's) can also go into a two way wago. Ensure all cables are pulled into the new fitting with no wires exposed in the ceiling void.
I do however suggest you employ an electrician to ensure correct polarity

 

[westward10]

As in #9. Is the new light plastic or metal.

 

[stevethesparks]

As in #9. Is the new light plastic or metal.

Thanks for the edit

 

[Novice]

You have two reds and two blacks, one of the blacks has a red sleeve.
The one with the red sleeve on should be the switched live to the light (to brown). The black with no sleeve should be the neutral to the light (to blues) the remaining two reds to go into a two way wago. As the light fitting is double insulated/class2 the two earths (cpc's) can also go into a two way wago. Ensure all cables are pulled into the new fitting with no wires exposed in the ceiling void.
I do however suggest you employ an electrician to ensure correct polarity

Thanks, that is very helpful. Now I see that I do have two blacks (one disguised as red!). Do I push the two reds with wago and the two earths with wago into the ceiling void (making sure there are no exposed wires). So there will only be two wires (black and black with red sleeve) pulled through to the new light terminal. I have posted the job on mybuilder - but I think it is too small a job so had no responses yet!

 

[Novice]

Thanks for the edit

Metal.

 

[brianmoooore]

All joints must be inside the enclosure of your new light. That includes the unsheathed cables.

 

[brianmoooore]

And joints should be made such that no bare copper is showing.

 

[stevethesparks]

Metal.

It looks like a pretty poorly constructed class 2 fitting to be honest (as most are). Get an electrician in.

 

[Novice]

Thanks for your time - think I'll take your advice and try harder to get an electrician.

It looks like a pretty poorly constructed class 2 fitting to be honest (as most are). Get an electrician in.

 

[SJD]

I'm not convinced My Builder is the best way to find someone; is there nobody local to you who can recommend someone?

 

[Novice]

I'm not convinced My Builder is the best way to find someone; is there nobody local to you who can recommend someone?

I've always found mybuilder really good for other things. But no one wants the job as it is too small.

 

[Deleted account]

Those lights are very poorly designed. They have no provision for earthing because they have supplied a sleaving( the big black one) for one cable which they state makes it double insulated. you have two cables. The permanent live and neutral & the switch live.

No provision has been made for two cables, therefore to fit it the cables would no longer be double insulated. And if it’s not double insulated it needs earthing.

i personally refuse to fit these lights. It’s a cheap way of getting around a design flaw that in fact hasn’t Been rectified.

 

[stevethesparks]

Anyone here near to Stratford Upon Avon ?

 

[westward10]

The biggest problem with that fitting is that it is tenuously Class II. To maintain this Class II then all connections of existing cables need making outside of the enclosure and a flex taken into the terminal enclosure. If you bring connections into the fitting it will need earthing.

 

[Deleted account]

Anyone here near to Stratford Upon Avon ?

I’m not but if I was I wouldnt fit it.

really sorry for customers who buy these lights, because they buy them in good faith thinking old light down new light up.

@Novice you dId nothing wrong in your purchase. You could not possibly know wh3n purchasing the issue with this light. In fact the retailer who sold you this light wouldn’t know.

I would be taking it back and asking for refund If that’s possible.

 

[Novice]

The biggest problem with that fitting is that it is tenuously Class II. To maintain this Class II then all connections of existing cables need making outside of the enclosure and a flex taken into the terminal enclosure. If you bring connections into the fitting it will need earthing.

I did think this! But obviously not being experienced I wasn't sure. Looking at the instructions I couldn't figure out if a flex was needed or not! This is beyond me - I will definitely be employing an electrician. Hope I get one who knows as much as you guys!

 

[Deleted account]

I did think this! But obviously not being experienced I wasn't sure. Looking at the instructions I couldn't figure out if a flex was needed or not! This is beyond me - I will definitely be employing an electrician. Hope I get one who knows as much as you guys!

There is bound to be someone on hear close to you Who can help.

give someone time to respond.


dispite my doom and gloom response to these fittings there is a way around this, but it will be a little bit more work involved than a simple swap.

 

[Novice]

M

I’m not but if I was I wouldnt fit it.

really sorry for customers who buy these lights, because they buy them in good faith thinking old light down new light up.

@Novice you dId nothing wrong in your purchase. You could not possibly know wh3n purchasing the issue with this light. In fact the retailer who sold you this light wouldn’t know.

I would be taking it back and asking for refund If that’s possible.

May just do that - it is John Lewis and they are pretty good at taking things back. When I ordered it they did offer a fitting service for £59 which I didn't think I'd need - but in hindsight I should of just booked it, as I can't get an electrician to come out!!

 

[westward10]

Would have been interesting to see how they would have fitted it to maintain the Class II rating.

 

[Deleted account]

M

May just do that - it is John Lewis and they are pretty good at taking things back. When I ordered it they did offer a fitting service for £59 which I didn't think I'd need - but in hindsight I should of just booked it, as I can't get an electrician to come out!!

That’s a good service. See if you can go with it. Be interesting to see how the retailers sparkies do it.

whatever you do please come back and let us know.

edit @westwood10 you beat me to it.

 

[westward10]

What are the odds of it being non compliant for £45.

 

[Deleted account]

What are the odds of it being non compliant for £45.

What are the odds of it being non compliant for £59.

 

[stevethesparks]

I'm no expert but have doubts whether it could ever pass a class 2 rating with their own single insulated conductors that will more than likely meet the tin foil once put into place.
Sorry to go on Novice
John Lewis do have an excellent returns / replacement policy, their price was pretty fair but as Westward10 has said, would liked to have seen the installation.
Unfortunately, many (or most) light fittings in this price range and many more expensive, fail miserably with their design - wall lights normally being the worst.

 

[Novice]

What are the odds of it being non compliant for £45.

I'm not sure what you mean? £45? The lamp was £180 - but got it for £90 in the sale - I thought it was a good buy...but no good if I can't get it fitted!

 

[Deleted account]

It

I'm not sure what you mean? £45? The lamp was £180 - but got it for £90 in the sale - I thought it was a good buy...but no good if I can't get it fitted!

was the cost of fitting the that @westwood got wrong and I corrected.

it wasn’t aimed at the cost of the light

 

[westward10]

I'm not sure what you mean? £45? The lamp was £180 - but got it for £90 in the sale - I thought it was a good buy...but no good if I can't get it fitted!

My error I was referring to the fitting cost but got it wrong. Just as well I'm not fitting it?

 

[Novice]

It

was the cost of fitting the that @westwood got wrong and I corrected.

it wasn’t aimed at the cost of the light

Oh that makes sense now - I was a bit confused about £45? It is annoying that John Lewis hasn't put more thought into what the are selling insofar as new light fixings. I am laughing (well a bit of a giggle) thinking that I could just fix it myself!! Thanks all for your advice!

 

[Cagethethird]

Just having a read of the instructions and it says to wrap the connections in insulating tape, that must be how you maintain class 2.........

I used to recommend people buy John Lewis light fittings but that was a good few years ago before they started using these awful connections.

If this was to be installed without the tape does that mean it doesn't comply with manufacturers instructions!?

 

[Deleted account]

Oh that makes sense now - I was a bit confused about £45? It is annoying that John Lewis hasn't put more thought into what the are selling insofar as new light fixings. I am laughing (well a bit of a giggle) thinking that I could just fix it myself!! Thanks all for your advice!

To be fare. How would John Lewis know. These lights are legal. And they are not electricians. They are retailers.

and don’t knock yourself for this. Another better designed light and you very well may have Ben able to sort it Yourself.

 

[Deleted account]

Just having a read of the instructions and it says to wrap the connections in insulating tape, that must be how you maintain class 2.........

I used to recommend people buy John Lewis light fittings but that was a good few years ago before they started using these awful connections.

If this was to be installed without the tape does that mean it doesn't comply with manufacturers instructions!?

Wow.

if the instructions state this they must know the fittings are not up to a acceptable standard.

using electricians insulating tape is clearly a cheap quick fix of the issue these fittings have.

I’m pretty amazed that any instruction in an electrical fitting require insulating tape as part of the installation To ensure safety.

 

[telectrix]

You have two reds and two blacks, one of the blacks has a red sleeve.
The one with the red sleeve on should be the switched live to the light (to brown). The black with no sleeve should be the neutral to the light (to blues) the remaining two reds to go into a two way wago. As the light fitting is double insulated/class2 the two earths (cpc's) can also go into a two way wago. Ensure all cables are pulled into the new fitting with no wires exposed in the ceiling void.
I do however suggest you employ an electrician to ensure correct polarity

spot on.similar to wtaht i sed before the pics were posted.

 

[westward10]

However the pics gave us the correct amount of conductors and the nature of the fitting.

 

[GBDamo]

You have two reds and two blacks, one of the blacks has a red sleeve.
The one with the red sleeve on should be the switched live to the light (to brown). The black with no sleeve should be the neutral to the light (to blues) the remaining two reds to go into a two way wago. As the light fitting is double insulated/class2 the two earths (cpc's) can also go into a two way wago. Ensure all cables are pulled into the new fitting with no wires exposed in the ceiling void.
I do however suggest you employ an electrician to ensure correct polarity

You can't pull the PLs in to the fitting to wago as they'll not be double insulated, it is the black rubber boot and crappy plastic box that offers the class2ness of the fitting.

I hate these, you have to wago box all the cables and run a flex to the light, PITA.

 

[GBDamo]

To be fare. How would John Lewis know. These lights are legal. And they are not electricians. They are retailers.

and don’t knock yourself for this. Another better designed light and you very well may have Ben able to sort it Yourself.

Sorry Pete that's a cop out, they damp well should know, they are selling cheaply made fashion lights at 'designer' prices.

Good money in it if you have no morals.

 

[goasis]

You can't pull the PLs in to the fitting to wago as they'll not be double insulated, it is the black rubber boot and crappy plastic box that offers the class2ness of the fitting.

I hate these, you have to wago box all the cables and run a flex to the light, PITA.

The rubber boot and the rest of the useless connection in these lights is irrelevant for maintaining class 2 if there are manufactured single insulated wires coming out the other side of it. These useless fittings boil everyone's blood. Good luck with anything except a single 1mm cable. While I'm at it... why the hell are the terminations on most dimmer modules so miniscule? 3 plated the switch position or wired in 1.5? Good luck!

 

[freddo]

I hope and pray that the designer of and the manufacturers that use those stupid white connector boxes with the tube sticking out, burn in hell for all eternity.

I've always wanted to visit one of these manufacturers just to ask them what they think they are doing, and to perhaps ask them to demonstrate installing their products to standard wiring systems.

This thread reminds me of a time I first fixed an extension bathroom and bedroom. I knew the lights were going to be chosen with the assistance of a lighting designer, but I did not know what models the fittings were going to be. So being the pessimistic person I am, I wired all the lights in such a way that there was only 1 1mm2 t&e cable at each fitting. Second fix time came, 2 models of light couldn't even be installed onto a single cable, it would only have been possible to install the lights in 0.5mm oval flex, and even then the cable entry was within millimetres of the fixing points...

Of course it's not all bad, you have to commend these lighting manufacturers for their equal opportunity employment policies, employing such large numbers of mentally disabled designers as they do.

 

[Dave OCD]

With lights like these I just take out the horrible black sleeve and worlds smallest connector block, fit decent connectors and earth the fitting. Better put a tin hat on I suppose. ?

 

[telectrix]

With lights like these I just take out the horrible black sleeve and worlds smallest connector block, fit decent connectors and earth the fitting. Better put a tin hat on I suppose. ?

i do the same.

 

[Dave OCD]

I'm glad to hear that !

 

[Novice]

With lights like these I just take out the horrible black sleeve and worlds smallest connector block, fit decent connectors and earth the fitting. Better put a tin hat on I suppose. ?

I totally appreciate all the advice and opinions that people have given - all very valid and it is reassuring to know that there are a lot of electricians out there who are genuinely very safety conscious. However, I was starting to doubt if there was an electrician with a solution to wiring this light in safely - do either you or telectrix live near Stratford Upon Avon ??

 

[David Prosser]

I very well may be mistaken, but for my eyes it looks like the singles in the light fitting have a clear heat-shrink or sleaving over them. Is this the case ?

Are you in Stratford as your postcode is Solihull ?

 

[Deleted account]

I very well may be mistaken, but for my eyes it looks like the singles in the light fitting have a clear heat-shrink or sleaving over them. Is this the case ?

Are you in Stratford as your postcode is Solihull ?

There is the clear sheathing over the insulation giving those conductors the double insulation required. It’s the issue of getting 2 cables into the black boot and maintaining double insulation that’s the issue.