Could really do with some help!

[stevie_sausage]

On Monday just gone I carried out and Electrical Installation Condition report for the company I work for their were 13 circuits across 2 C.U 5 of which were 20a radials across a rcd controlled c.u for E7, the boards were wylex type and were fitted in Oct 2009 I did the test everything was in acceptable condition apart from a couple of C2/C3 notifications. sadly, the property caught fire that night, thank God the family was safe and got out! the customer was awoke by smoke alarms triggering at about 1 am. the boards have completely disintergrated ( I've not seen them only what I have been told) only remaining is copper no plastic enclosure and none of the plastic on mcb's etc, supplier has already removed the metering equipment . the next day my company sent a company who audit samples of our work that we carry out back to the property to re-do the test to check their results were in line with mine and that the test had been carried out correctly. They where. having spoken to my employers they want me to come back to work but obviously dont want me back on the tools until they have finished their investigation. However they are not going to get a forensic specialist in to determine the cause of the fire, though I want and would welcome them to, but they wont and this is where I am hoping some of you could possibly help me....



I am aware from looking over the last few days (hindsight is a wonderful thing) that around the 2009-10 Electrium gave a recall to faulty (wylex) mcb's that could and have in some cases caught fire, I have seen a few posts on-line where unfortunately they have, if anyone has come across them causing fires could you please post what happened and how fast the fire burnt through the board. the customer went to bed at 11pm monday night and as stated was awoke at 1am so this gives a two hour window for this to mainifest itself into a full blown fire, if it was surely you would have seen some smoke or s/alarm would have triggered in the hallway were the fuseboard is situated if it was 'slow burning' also customer would have surely got the legendary fishy smell throughout the day which would really have caused alarm with me only finishing the test at 1:50pm on the monday. I cannot rule out a mistake on my part unless forensics are brought in however having been in this industry for near 20 years I have never known 2x fuseboards go completely on fire & disintergrate within 2 hours after smouldering for 9 due to a loose connection ( please enlighten me if you have) again if it was loose connections would the power have not started cutting out depending on what was loose etc (testers said everything that remained was tight btw) I'm really at a loss here and could really do with some help as a bad name in this industry sure travels quick. thank you all.

 

[NDG Elecs]

Hope you are exonerated if you are not at fault mate.

Cannot help you regarding any knowledge of past fires caused by the MCB but I hope you mentioned these on the EICR. An awareness of the issues with these MCBs ie the recall, should be something to look out for/make a note of when carrying out an EICR in my opinion. Though it would be easy to overlook it also.

Could be an issue with the E7 NSH maybe, due to the time at which it happened.

Have you googled fires wylex electrium mcb.

Good luck.

 

[GMES]

Hi Stevie I can't imagine how your feeling right now, but stay positive mate it sounds like you did everything right, and also having 20 years experience you must know what your doing.
this just sounds like really bad timing, chin up.
And also this just hammers home the point that everyone carrying out testing work really need to know what they are doing and should never take sshort cuts or fabricate test results.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

I don't suppose you got the serial no's off the 6/10/16 A mcbs did you....

 

[stevie_sausage]

I don't suppose you got the serial no's off the 6/10/16 A mcbs did you....

If only mate, If only!

 

[Geoffsd]

Yeah, Good Luck.

 

[onions1066]

Sausage is there a chance the meter cold of been tampered? If not you've got to be looking at a loose connection, but if the board is melted they aren't going to be able to prove anything looking at that. The eicr is only as good as the time you do it anything could of happened after you'd left. It will be a game of pin the tail on the donkey just don't stand still too long so you get it pinned on your arse .

 

[stevie_sausage]

thats the thing mate, I dont mind getting pinned for it if its my fault like I said I'd rather know as my confidence for doing this job now has taken a hell of a knock. In terms of the meter being tampered again it is a possibility customer was complaining that she spends 55 pounds per week on Electricity she is on benefits not that that should be an indication of someones honesty in obtaining 'free energy' I have to be careful to not start my own crusade of blaming the customer etc as then I'm no worse than the people who are trying to prove it was me. however it is a bit circumstancial that wylex mcb's could cause fire, the board was fitted oct 09 I test it and that night it decides to go up like a piece of sugar paper.

 

[onions1066]

thats the thing mate, I dont mind getting pinned for it if its my fault like I said I'd rather know as my confidence for doing this job now has taken a hell of a knock. In terms of the meter being tampered again it is a possibility customer was complaining that she spends 55 pounds per week on Electricity she is on benefits not that that should be an indication of someones honesty in obtaining 'free energy' I have to be careful to not start my own crusade of blaming the customer etc as then I'm no worse than the people who are trying to prove it was me. however it is a bit circumstancial that wylex mcb's could cause fire, the board was fitted oct 09 I test it and that night it decides to go up like a piece of sugar paper.

I have seen a Wylex go up when the neutral link was loose in the bar. Before I ever put a lid back on a board even if I've only touched 1 circuit I tighten everything just out of habit. Last week a friend of mine over rided the thermostat in a red ring shower after advice from technical, lets just say it was the same outcome as yours. But only bathroom and landing destroyed. They can't pin it on him because he was following there advice. Just stick to your guns, but its convenient how the metering company took there stuff out straight away, sounds like a cover up to me. I wouldn't lose any sleep I know it's easy for me to say but I really wouldn't. Good luck

 

[monkster]

Oh Dear.Wylex are recalling more MCB's There has been another product recall from Electrium for their Wylex and Crabtree brands The product recall details are below:

 

[craigday]

sounds like it was just very bad timing, I hope you get this sorted and don't get the blame!! good luck

 

[oldtimer]

A couple of things strike me here you could have been in the wrong place at the wrong time . Also when in a DB or CU as they say I always go around the connections even the live bar ones and always find a problem due to the guy that fitted it either never went and checked his connections or had a worn screwdriver. Remember copper gives hence when you connect the mains on a CU or 6/10mm on cooker and showers switches its good practice to make the connection and then wait for 5 minutes then check them again.

The other thin is there could have been a slack connection and you disturbed it either way I hope you get a good result as the fire officer should be aware of the Wylex problem and they are pretty good at tracing the source so good luck

I meant to add that I do repairs in rentals so I get a lot of shower switches that are damaged due to heat from slack connections as for CU,s I have had a couple with burnt busbars again traced to a slack connection.


Here you go

 

[stevie_sausage]

I know what your saying Old timer but the thing is the auditors who did the retest said everything was tight on what was left of the board, but in your opinion have you ever known two boards to go up in less than 12 hours without their being forewarning etc thats what is baffling me Ive come across stuff thats burnt out due to loose connections etc and its been in for years also even when I have replaced fuseboards in the past its not uncommon to have found 25mm tails just fall out of the bottom of the isolator yet theyve done no harm for as long as the boards been in.

 

[sedgy34]

Not much to say really just put it down to experience

 

[oldtimer]

I know what your saying Old timer but the thing is the auditors who did the retest said everything was tight on what was left of the board, but in your opinion have you ever known two boards to go up in less than 12 hours without their being forewarning etc thats what is baffling me Ive come across stuff thats burnt out due to loose connections etc and its been in for years also even when I have replaced fuseboards in the past its not uncommon to have found 25mm tails just fall out of the bottom of the isolator yet theyve done no harm for as long as the boards been in.

Yep I hear what you say and I am no different and yes seen a 16/25mm fall out as well but what I will say the damaged due to slack connections can be due to and traced to load bearing equipment hence why I change a lot of shower,cooker switches or their fuses /MCBs in the CU and the same with off peak equipment ie immersion / storage heaters.

I really do feel for you as this is the sharp end of our trade where people say a monkey can wire a house but when there is an electrical problem or fire people look at the spark to ask what happened

 

[polo1]

Stevie, can't begin to guess how you are feeling mate, but on the bright side no one has been injured or killed. It may only have been one board which then caused damage to the other.

Easier said than done, but in your shoes I would just try to move on - you sound like a reasobable guy, so don't beat yourself up.

By the by, was there original paperwork for the 2009 install and if so, how did your results compare? Does look like a real chance of a Wylex fault.

 

[ipf]

Hope you get to the bottom of it for your own satisfaction.
Really does look like a case of wrong place wrong time. Really can't see both CU's going up, too much of a coincidence. Just hope that coincidence is the word in question for the whole issue. Good luck.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Were both boards above the service head?

 

[stevie_sausage]

yes house electrics where right above, E7 electrics where above right .

 

[sedgy34]

Could have been the service head for all you know, I've had that before a service head smoking cause of a fault in the road
dont worry about it mate