Dodgy trade pictures for your amusement! - 1 Million Views!

[ipf]

On with running a supply to a car ramp via an oldish 3x3 trunking, today.
Originally there were some fluorescent fittings fixed with bush and locknut system, changed to LEDs in the last couple of years.
To remove lid, I had to cut some cable ties wrapped completely round the 3X3, used to secure the lid, I presumed. On snipping, the fitting dropped, lazy twerps used the ties to hold the fittings up.

Not even put a locknut on that original bush.

 

[Mark42]

I suppose the other option if using swa single phase is to buy it the with the brown, blue, green/yellow colours.

For some reason single-phase colours SWA costs more, so becomes significantly more expensive for long runs.

 

[ipf]

On with running a supply to a car ramp via an oldish 3x3 trunking, today.
Originally there were some fluorescent fittings fixed with bush and locknut system, changed to LEDs in the last couple of years.
To remove lid, I had to cut some cable ties wrapped completely round the 3X3, used to secure the lid, I presumed. On snipping, the fitting dropped, lazy twerps used the ties to hold the fittings up.

Not even put a locknut on that original bush.

View attachment 104005

View attachment 104006

Fitting taken apart and the cables have been extended with T+E....so obviously done on the cheap by domestic dummies.

 

[davesparks]

For some reason single-phase colours SWA costs more, so becomes significantly more expensive for long runs.

It will be more expensive because there is low demand for it,

 

[Raptor0014]

This place is going to take some work. In addition to the pics below.

No earth to gas or water
Undersized main earth (it’s a single 2.5mm copper strand)
Consumer unit is Bakelite & Wood under the stairs and cover is damaged
No RCD protection and no supplementary bonding of any kind.
Boiler is also wired wrong as it fires up if you turn the hot water on. But doesn’t when heating is turned up. It is also supplied from the socket circuit and the immersion circuit.
No CPC’s are sleeved (trivial given the other issues)
T&E feeding the garage is supported by a washing line and i have an inkling it’s been used to hang washing as there are marks that look suspiciously like peg marks!

Pipe jockey also needs to come in as when the boiler does fire up, only the rads upstairs get warm, downstairs stays cold.

Bet they’re gonna wish they never asked me to come in now. I’ve got 26 observations so far with 15 being C1 & C2’s

 

[Mike Johnson]

Just an observation, normally if the rads upstairs are heating and the downstairs are not, it's probably the pump is not working.

 

[Raptor0014]

Just an observation, normally if the rads upstairs are heating and the downstairs are not, it's probably the pump is not working.

I did wonder. But it’s a new pump well it’s certainly shiny in comparison to the dust covered stuff in there and it’s digital.

I’ll wait to hear what the pipe jockey says. I think the landlord is a going to be upset at the remedial bill just before Christmas.

 

[Mike Johnson]

New pump wired up or programmed by a plumber, need I say more.

 

[LewisM]

More quality kitchen fitter work

 

[DPG]

More quality kitchen fitter work

View attachment 104196View attachment 104197

That wants flagging to the kitchen company. Wonder how many times they've done ite, and they'll continue to do it.

 

[LewisM]

That wants flagging to the kitchen company. Wonder how many times they've done ite, and they'll continue to do it.

Was old probably about 20 years ago!

House was fully rewired in 1970s but has no earth on the lighting, its just twin 1mm copper, its odd as I thought anything 1960s onwards had earth in the lighting

I've seen loads of stranded cable with no earth but not 1mm solid copper

 

[pc1966]

Was old probably about 20 years ago!

House was fully rewired in 1970s but has no earth on the lighting, its just twin 1mm copper, its odd as I thought anything 1960s onwards had earth in the lighting

I've seen loads of stranded cable with no earth but not 1mm solid copper

Sadly not too uncommon to see a "full rewire" that leaves some difficult to replace cables re-used.

 

[LewisM]

Re-done the bonding connection in the same house

 

[Raptor0014]

These new boards are the future.

So advanced they have their own pilot light and electric heating to keep things nice and warm…..

 

[buzzlightyear]

Two in to one want go when you put a switch line and neutral together on a timed fan, a fault welding a switch and fan switch.

 

[Welchyboy1]

Recent quality Hot tub installation and CU supplying the socket

 

[mainline]

Recent quality Hot tub installation and CU supplying the socket

Could be Rcd socket ?

 

[nicebutdim]

Never been in a hot tub and nor will I, without first conducting a thorough inspection of its supply

 

[littlespark]

Guessing there’s a 10mA rcd on the hot tub cable…. But that won’t stop some clown cutting it off because “it keeps trippin’”

 

[Welchyboy1]

just a standard outside socket and 13a plug top no rcd at all

 

[Raptor0014]

Got a call out to a cooker tripping the RCD every time the oven is switched on. But the time taken would vary. Suspected a failing element.

So went and had a look, tested the element. It registered 25.9ohms so about right for the size of the oven.

Checked all the wiring and took the bulb out to check that as seen issues with those before.

Noticed how the consumer unit was oddly set up but will get to that shortly.

So next tested the RCD.

Trip was fine at 38.6ms.
Ramp test was 19mA which is a little sensitive but above the 15mA minimum.

So next I put my clamp meter on the connections in the back of the oven. It was leaking around 3-4mA until the temp is set. Once the temp is set the leakage then climbs to around 13-14ma and fluctuates between 5-14mA (before the RCD trips).

So looking at the board I can hazard a guess that because they have stuck all the high power circuits on one RCD and all the lights on the other. We have got a case of accumulative leakage tripping the RCD as when the other circuits are off and just the oven is on. The RCD stays on.

Whilst there I noticed the wiring for the outside light. But another electrician apparently said this is ok as it’s out of reach.

 

[pc1966]

So next I put my clamp meter on the connections in the back of the oven. It was leaking around 3-4mA until the temp is set. Once the temp is set the leakage then climbs to around 13-14ma and fluctuates between 5-14mA (before the RCD trips).

I would check for reversed polarity at the oven, in case it is the neutral that is being switched off so higher leakage once cycling.

Whilst there I noticed the wiring for the outside light. But another electrician apparently said this is ok as it’s out of reach.

Oh FFS!

That is a good advert for why T&E is not a suitable outside choice. Even if out of reach, which is a load of balls, then once it leaks you risk the lights on RCD going off mid winter.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Looking closely at that picture, I'd say that twin and earth was already in that condition when it was installed on that wall.

 

[Raptor0014]

Looking closely at that picture, I'd say that twin and earth was already in that condition when it was installed on that wall.

Apparently it’s been up there a few years. I don’t think it was like that when it was installed. I’m going back in a couple of days to sort it so will take a closer look when I remove it.

 

[pc1966]

Looking closely at that picture, I'd say that twin and earth was already in that condition when it was installed on that wall.

Well the clips look newer than the cable, but I doubt anyone would run in cable in that condition!

However, some things i have seen...

 

[loz2754]

Quite obviously squirrel damage innit

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Apparently it’s been up there a few years. I don’t think it was like that when it was installed. I’m going back in a couple of days to sort it so will take a closer look when I remove it.

It's been moved since it decayed, I'd bet money. Has the wall been repointed recently? Might explain things.

 

[Raptor0014]

It's been moved since it decayed, I'd bet money. Has the wall been repointed recently? Might explain things.

Pass, I'll ask when I go back. I did notice the clips looked quite new. Maybe the electrician who said it was ok as it's out of reach put some new clips in for them. You know just to keep it out of reach and compliant.....

 

[mainline]

Got a call out to a cooker tripping the RCD every time the oven is switched on. But the time taken would vary. Suspected a failing element.

So went and had a look, tested the element. It registered 25.9ohms so about right for the size of the oven.

Checked all the wiring and took the bulb out to check that as seen issues with those before.

Noticed how the consumer unit was oddly set up but will get to that shortly.

So next tested the RCD.

Trip was fine at 38.6ms.
Ramp test was 19mA which is a little sensitive but above the 15mA minimum.

So next I put my clamp meter on the connections in the back of the oven. It was leaking around 3-4mA until the temp is set. Once the temp is set the leakage then climbs to around 13-14ma and fluctuates between 5-14mA (before the RCD trips).

So looking at the board I can hazard a guess that because they have stuck all the high power circuits on one RCD and all the lights on the other. We have got a case of accumulative leakage tripping the RCD as when the other circuits are off and just the oven is on. The RCD stays on.

View attachment 104526

View attachment 104525

Whilst there I noticed the wiring for the outside light. But another electrician apparently said this is ok as it’s out of reach.

Peeves me when they go to the expense of fitting a spd, but then skimp on a split load board.

 

[mainline]

I would also be looking at that oven again as that leakage is way too high, Should be around 1 mA or 1 mA/kW of rated power

RCD with a rated operating current of 30 mA, the maximum leakage current is 9 mA

 

[Raptor0014]

I would also be looking at that oven again as that leakage is way too high, Should be around 1 mA or 1 mA/kW of rated power

RCD with a rated operating current of 30 mA, the maximum leakage current is 9 mA

I am unsure of what else to test on it.

The element is fine both resistance wise and visually inspecting it. The bulb housing is also fine (had this once before where the ceramic holder had deteriorated and the light contacts would expand when heating up and cause a trip). Checked the leakage and it seemed the main culprit was when the temp was set. But all the connections are fine and nothing is loose.

I genuinely mean this, if you have anything further I can test/check then please let me know.

 

[mainline]

I am unsure of what else to test on it.

The element is fine both resistance wise and visually inspecting it. The bulb housing is also fine (had this once before where the ceramic holder had deteriorated and the light contacts would expand when heating up and cause a trip). Checked the leakage and it seemed the main culprit was when the temp was set. But all the connections are fine and nothing is loose.

I genuinely mean this, if you have anything further I can test/check then please let me know.

Why not try with the element disconnected to rule out everything else.

 

[mainline]

There was a bit of a discussion on here the other week about elements and the way they fail etc.
Did you IR test ?.

Oven Replacement - RCD?

Afternoon all. Apologies if this is a stupid question. I'm currently half part way through completing 2391 (second exam tonight) - so may be getting myself in a tiz overthinking things. Either way, thought I'd put it out to the group. Task is: Straight swap of existing x5 ovens with new -...

www.electriciansforums.net

 

[freddo]

In my own house! It was cold so I put on a 3kw downflow heater I misuse as a portable heater. Plug went bang and tripped socket rcbo. Perhaps I should have put more effort into wiring the plug, 2 cord clamp screws would have been a start. Left a blast mark on the socket plate too.

 

[Raptor0014]

Well this is a new one.

I was there to quote for another job. Moved the cables to see the entry to the building and they sparked.

Bit of investigation and found 244v down the armour….. What is worse is it’s feeding an outdoor socket with no RCD!

I’ve disabled and made it safe for now. Customer is weighing up wether to get the other ‘electrician’ back or just get me to sort it when I sort the other job I’m quoting for.

Switched off MCB is the supplying OCPD. No RCD protection, yet they use a RCBO for the other socket near the board.

 

[mainline]

I would have thought the armour would have been earthed at some point, otherwise no sparks.

 

[Raptor0014]

I would have thought the armour would have been earthed at some point, otherwise no sparks.

I’m guessing that the armour of the other cable (which was an old generator supply) being lay on the concrete floor where the generator used to be was making the route back to physical earth.

 

[mainline]

Get the other spark back, so he can have a slap.

 

[Raptor0014]

Get the other spark back, so he can have a slap.

Might ask him back and then ask him to grab the cable and move it….

 

[ipf]

Burned out socket with an extra hole drilled for a woodscrew?



Fixed to chipboard wall without backbox.







That's a water pipe with an extra 2.5 t+e, by passing that original plastic back box, spurred off to somewhere.
It seems the plastic pipe's been shoved down the cavity and gone through the cable bunch.

 

[Raptor0014]

A few different jobs for these.

Office complex. Been asked to add additional sockets. Network engineers had just finished their work. Guess they don’t pay attention to 528.1.

I wouldn’t mind but the dado trunking has seperate compartments to keep data and power seperate. Especially when it’s standard unshielded cat 5e cable.

This next was a call out. Owner was putting up a curtain rail and drilled straight though a light cable.

This last one is a brand new near £600k house. Owner got the keys from the developer a week ago. Seems the NICEIC approved contractor likes to use impact drivers. Video shows 2 of the 6 MCBs with broken terminal screws

 

[brianmoooore]

They did make a nice neat job of the outer sheath of the tails.

 

[freddo]

This last one is a brand new near £600k house. Owner got the keys from the developer a week ago. Seems the NICEIC approved contractor likes to use impact drivers. Video shows 2 of the 6 MCBs with broken terminal screws

Perhaps they normally install Merlin panel boards and thought the MCB screws were shear bolts...

 

[ipf]

They did make a nice neat job of the outer sheath of the tails.

Way over stripped the blue outer....

 

[ERFspark]

These breakers on the right supply a 400V heater and the local lighting to an area housing a compressor and a load of conveyors. The main breaker is supplying the compressor.
Lovely work piggybacking off the live side to feed those. I’m at a loss why this is appropriate. The guy who installed this lot was South African, is this a way of doing things over there? There are multiple instances of this across the site.
So when the compressor is isolated in the switch room for maintenance the local light and heating is lost
There’s a perfectly good fuseboard about 20m along the wall he could have used. I’ve never understood people doing things like this

 

[James]

These breakers on the right supply a 400V heater and the local lighting to an area housing a compressor and a load of conveyors. The main breaker is supplying the compressor.
Lovely work piggybacking off the live side to feed those. I’m at a loss why this is appropriate. The guy who installed this lot was South African, is this a way of doing things over there? There are multiple instances of this across the site.
So when the compressor is isolated in the switch room for maintenance the local light and heating is lost
There’s a perfectly good fuseboard about 20m along the wall he could have used. I’ve never understood people doing things like this

Not sure that I see a big problem here.
Surely you can isolate the compressor either with the breaker on the left or possibly a rotary isolator is fixed to the machine?

 

[ERFspark]

So the done thing when you need to design a supply to a new circuit is to just connect it to the nearest electrical equipment you can, rather than to a fuseboard and have it on its own circuit?
When I was an electrical installer my QS would have had kittens if he’d seen me doing things like this.

 

[Julie.]

So the done thing when you need to design a supply to a new circuit is to just connect it to the nearest electrical equipment you can, rather than to a fuseboard and have it on its own circuit?
When I was an electrical installer my QS would have had kittens if he’d seen me doing things like this.

But it depends what the requirement is, if it is to have all the equipment in one particular area to have a single point of isolation, then in makes sense.

Having multiple points of isolation for the same area is often an issue on some sites.

It doesn't look like they picked a random supply, but a standard methodology for the site.

 

[ERFspark]

It isn’t standard methodology. In the 20 years I’ve been an industrial electrician I have never connected a new circuit to the nearest equipment. No labels on the enclosure or the equipment, nothing.
The De mister tripped a few months ago, no one had any idea where it was fed from. Searched for ages. Turns out there was a random floating breaker in the enclosure of a 63A socket outlet next to the RCD, which was about 20m from the unit. Which was only 5m away from a fuseboard. Utter laziness.

 

[Raptor0014]

Bit of background for this.

Shop owner asked for a quote to install an air curtain a few weeks ago. So sent the quote with the intention to install it on a 20A DP switch and a dedicated circuit as it’s 3033w when running.

Owner rejected the quote as had been given a cheaper quote from another ‘electrician’ who’d told them it just needed to be put on a 13a plug.

‘Le electrician extraordinaire’ took a spur from a nearby socket and put a 2g plug in for a drinks machine and the air curtain.

Got a call last night asking if I could come and have a look at it as it was smoking. They’d turned the power off and left it.

Went this morning and found this…

It’s now installed properly on a dedicated circuit with a 20A DP switch.