Dual earth terminals for computer circuits

[Des 56]

I first came across them in 1988 in a telco lab environment.

I came across them on a David Attenborogh documentary before then

,it was called Earth connections or something similar,they were a very rare species indeed

 

[oxocube]

Noticed this on the architects notes can someone elaborate for me? thanks

the contractor should note the need for dual earth terminal blocks to be provided within DBs supplying computer power

People have assumed (as I did at first) that this is referring to high integrity (HI) earthing.

Just dawned on me, it could also mean they want clean and dirty earth bars, and possibly (HI) earthing.

I would seek clarification, because getting this wrong could be very expensive.

 

[Simlec]

Yes indeed double check that they do not require clean earth, but i would have said, architect would/should have stated that they require clean earth (not a small detail) on circuit(s), but then again he/she could of over looked.

 

[Engineer54]

People have assumed (as I did at first) that this is referring to high integrity (HI) earthing.

Just dawned on me, it could also mean they want clean and dirty earth bars, and possibly (HI) earthing.

I would seek clarification, because getting this wrong could be very expensive.

Just read this thread from the beginning, and that was my first assumption, a clean and a standard earth bar. After reading the numerous post replies, i thought that i was mistaken, and had misread the OP's post. ...lol!!

 

[Engineer54]

Yes indeed double check that they do not require clean earth, but i would have said, architect would/should have stated that they require clean earth (not a small detail) on circuit(s), but then again he/she could of over looked.

This would be quite easy to determine, ..by checking drawings, ...Clean earths requirements are always quite clearly marked on main and sub-main distribution DBs and Panel drawings...

 

[Knobhead]

In which case dont bother replying to the thread - your comments are neither useful or wanted

After a comment like that your opinions are reduced like you to NOTHING!

NBP is one of the most skilled engineers on this board. one who’s advise I’d take any time over yours.

 

[jeremy]

The op asks about dual earthing in the db, not at the sockets, the socket being where I thought the HI earthing had to be dealt with. Have I missed something or is the architect asking for something above and beyond BS7671?

 

[Simlec]

With HI earthing, you also split earths at DB of that circuit, which can be done with same earth bar or separate bars.

 

[Engineer54]

The OP doesn't know what the requirement is, and why he posted his query. Which is also why he has been told to seek clarification as to what the specification note is referring too ....clean and standard earth bars or HI dual earth bars!!

 

[ezzzekiel]

After a comment like that your opinions are reduced like you to NOTHING!

NBP is one of the most skilled engineers on this board. one who’s advise I’d take any time over yours.

yeah whatever you say - lol

 

[Guest123]

Some info for the 'grown up's' here........

 

[kenny james]

glennspark i totally agree with your comments this forum is becoming worse with the comments of some sparks. if every spark knew everything we wouldnt need forums like this. even i am wary to ask a question incase some high almighty spark who thinks he knows everything may think that it is a dumb question to ask and then jump on the band wagon with there totally ignorant and demoralising comments, it is better to give a spark the right answer to his query than to let them think what they are doing is right and then find themselves in jail or worse die. yes in the real world it does happen to qualified sparks they do go to jail or die due to electrocution and hopefully this forum may stop even one spark from either spending time in a cell or 6 feet under, a spark cant even say he has had an electric shock because he would be afraid incase somebody told him he should have followed safe isolation procedures, i guarantee that the idiots who call themselves sparks who dont want to help other sparks work for a large company and often need advice themselves and can always call on their work mates to help them unfortunately there is a lot of us out there who dont have this luxury as we are on our own and so have to ask a question on here to hopefully get the right answer and not a load of belittling crap about the competance of that person being a spark. i dont even have to say who you are as a lot of the sparks reading this will already know who you are as they have probably experienced your comments also. stop acting like ****** to those who need your help as this should make you feel more proud to have given a spark some good sound advice. if i told you i farted next to a gas appliance you would probably say i wasnt a proper spark as it would be against regulations!!.

 

[ezzzekiel]

my sentiments exactly - good post

 

[netblindpaul]

What I cannot understand is why a so called competent and professional electrician cannot fathom something that came into the regs over 20 years ago.
The ONLY thing that COULD be of question is the clarification between hi integrity & clean earthing.
However, a competent professional electrician should be able to fathom this themselves, as it is quite straight forward stuff really.

I really worry these days about the competence of some "so called" electricians who are working in the real world and seem to have a very poor grasp of what are basic and fundamental principles and rules of the trade when they propose themselves to be professionals!

A professional has to undergo continuous professional development to retain their professional status, that means investment in themselves in training and in reference materials such as the relevant reference material such as standards.

I cannot fathom the depth of complaints that are forthcoming with regard to the reluctance to undertake continuous professional development, and, all that this entails, whilst shouting that electricians are professionals.

It beggars belief!

 

[ezzzekiel]

I cannot fathom the depth of complaints that are forthcoming with regard to the reluctance to undertake continuous professional development It beggars belief!

and i cant fathom why some people need to belittle some members for asking a question, this really shouldnt be the case on a open forum otherwise whats the point, yes some questions are very basic in their nature but surely expanding on them would be a better soloution even to the more experienced and intelligent of us?

i will also add that i have very little knowledge of the topic in question but ill make sure i dont ask for a fuller explanation .......

 

[Engineer54]

That depends very much on what you determine a professional electrician is!! The problem today is, that the basic skills are not being taught to say the level you i and other older electricians were. The days of indentured Apprenticeships are virtually over, now it's down to these so called trade schools that promise the earth and deliver almost nothing. It's that, or local collages that don't have the funds to cover the full spectrum of our industry. They are both basically getting these students to pass the basic exams, and many are failing to do even that!! Most of these guys are passing out of these new style institutions with absolutely no working experience whatsoever!!


Most new electricians are now at most domestic installers, that would be totally lost outside of that environment. The younger ones may go on to improve themselves, (there are a few here on the forum) but many of the older guys that have retrained at a late stage in their lives, will be quite happy remaining firmly entrenched in the domestic side of the industry. So although i agree with you, it's sad to say that the professional side of things is sliding in a downwards direction too. I don't particularly blame these guys either, i blame the dammed system and the bureaucrats that has allowed our industry to slide to the level it is at now, and may not have reached it's bottom yet!! There is little enthusiasm to improve oneself, when these courses cost more than a normal family can realistically afford, and with little financial benefit at the end to look forward too....

 

[netblindpaul]

What I can't fathom is the threads and comments on the forum berating companies for trying to operate in a financially sound manner, by down grading certain so called "electricians" who are not really and thus paying them less than others.
Then members actively support what appear to be unskilled or unqualified and incompetent persons to take their work away from them?
This is something that I find really difficult to grasp.

If the question had been asked from a learning point of view, for example:
"I am in college and we have been given this scenario" then I whole heartedly agree with supporting the OP.
However, when the OP appears to be taking work away from those of you who are competent and you are helping him to do it, where is the sense in that?
Work is difficult enough to get at the moment without giving it away to those who are not really competent to do it by training them to take your mortgage payments and the money to feed your kids away from you.

 

[Engineer54]

and i cant fathom why some people need to belittle some members for asking a question, this really shouldnt be the case on a open forum otherwise whats the point, yes some questions are very basic in their nature but surely expanding on them would be a better soloution even to the more experienced and intelligent of us?

i will also add that i have very little knowledge of the topic in question but ill make sure i dont ask for a fuller explanation .......

The thing is, we all have our off day's!!! Sometimes it can get real hard not to make a comment on some of the posts that are written here. On one day, you may reply to the basic question being asked, or you may ignore it completely and on that off day reply with a remark!! lol!!!


One does have to wonder, at some of the queries made on the forum by working electricians, as to what level they have been taught this trade. You can understand when these questions have been raised by students and trainees, it's a different matter when it's an electrician asking the question.


As for this particular query, i wouldn't have said that it was a situation that many domestic installers would probably come across too often, if at all in their line of work, so i'm going to put Paul's remark down to him having an off day!! ...lol!!
He is normally quite free with his advise on replies to posts, and a knowledgeable poster on the Regs, as well as other statutory bodies that are involved in our industry...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

What I cannot understand is why a so called competent and professional electrician cannot fathom something that came into the regs over 20 years ago.
The ONLY thing that COULD be of question is the clarification between hi integrity & clean earthing.
However, a competent professional electrician should be able to fathom this themselves, as it is quite straight forward stuff really.

I really worry these days about the competence of some "so called" electricians who are working in the real world and seem to have a very poor grasp of what are basic and fundamental principles and rules of the trade when they propose themselves to be professionals!

A professional has to undergo continuous professional development to retain their professional status, that means investment in themselves in training and in reference materials such as the relevant reference material such as standards.

I cannot fathom the depth of complaints that are forthcoming with regard to the reluctance to undertake continuous professional development, and, all that this entails, whilst shouting that electricians are professionals.

It beggars belief!

I wasn`t questioning your integrity..or your knowledge....rather the rude way you chose to post...thats all.....I will look forward to listening/learning from you (and others on here) in future.
with thanks.
Glenn.

 

[telectrix]

solar power has also been around for quite a few years, but i would never call myself competent in that field. i understand the principles, but that is all. that doesn't make me incompetent in other fields. as engineer54 says, today's training leaves a lot to be desired and the younger sparks are chucked in at the deep end having learned all they have been taught but without practical experience and a "mentor" to guide them and explain areas in which they have little or no knowledge. we now have electricians who may be able to recite the regulations but give them some tray or steel conduit and they're lost. conversely, a guy may be an expert at cabling and terminating , yet know bugger all about testing or fault finding. to anyone contemplating training, i'd say be a chippy or a plumber.