Dual earth terminals for computer circuits

[nick182]

That depends very much on what you determine a professional electrician is!! The problem today is, that the basic skills are not being taught to say the level you i and other older electricians were. The days of indentured Apprenticeships are virtually over, now it's down to these so called trade schools that promise the earth and deliver almost nothing. It's that, or local collages that don't have the funds to cover the full spectrum of our industry. They are both basically getting these students to pass the basic exams, and many are failing to do even that!! Most of these guys are passing out of these new style institutions with absolutely no working experience whatsoever!!


Most new electricians are now at most domestic installers, that would be totally lost outside of that environment. The younger ones may go on to improve themselves, (there are a few here on the forum) but many of the older guys that have retrained at a late stage in their lives, will be quite happy remaining firmly entrenched in the domestic side of the industry. So although i agree with you, it's sad to say that the professional side of things is sliding in a downwards direction too. I don't particularly blame these guys either, i blame the dammed system and the bureaucrats that has allowed our industry to slide to the level it is at now, and may not have reached it's bottom yet!! There is little enthusiasm to improve oneself, when these courses cost more than a normal family can realistically afford, and with little financial benefit at the end to look forward too....

too right Engineer54, with my college it felt like i was on a production line.. knock em up and bang em straight out.. Take your money and run.

Because of this forum and the continued help and support i get from you guys my knowledge continues to grow more and more everyday.This forum has helped me through so much that if it didnt exist id be lost without it. its sad, but its true. I have done well at college I've studied hard. Harder than most. And unfortunetly im not as priviledged to be working alongside someone but it wont stop me from becomin like you guys. Which is where i aim to be in a few years.

And i can also see that the professional side of things is sliding in a downwards direction. Everyday people are coming out of these colleges the same way they went in.. I felt that way the day i finished college last year. However, it really does depend on the individual and on how bad they want to learn. If im not on here my head is stuck in a book or im out in the real world trying to earn a living. Ive had to go self employed so i can continue to learn.. Most jobs ive applied for out there wont even give you the time of day which is quite sad. And thats where I think this industry is kind of going wrong. Id love to work alongside somebody and from someone who can teach me. But no one wants to know me unless i have 2391.. i cant do the 2391 unless ive had experience and The last thing I want to be is a cowboy or be 6ft under. Without this forum id be either one of those. You guys are my mentors and i sincerely appreciate it.

And i also appreciate the negetive comments aswell. i dont take them personally but i consider it to be something constructive.

What i love about this industry is not only is it highly technical but also theres always room to improve. Always something new to learn. Theres always areas in which to expand and to grow.

thanks guys!

 

[spark 68]

solar power has also been around for quite a few years, but i would never call myself competent in that field. i understand the principles, but that is all. that doesn't make me incompetent in other fields. as engineer54 says, today's training leaves a lot to be desired and the younger sparks are chucked in at the deep end having learned all they have been taught but without practical experience and a "mentor" to guide them and explain areas in which they have little or no knowledge. we now have electricians who may be able to recite the regulations but give them some tray or steel conduit and they're lost. conversely, a guy may be an expert at cabling and terminating , yet know bugger all about testing or fault finding

This very true,

I have worked several times in the panel building industry (for global companies) building some well known projects. These can be highly complex, with motorised ACB's, PLC controlled switch boards, Intelligent motor centres and G59 protection relay circuits etc..etc..,

But this doesn't mean I understand them, yes I can read the drawings, yes I can run the cables, and yes I can terminate the connections, and can even spot "obvious mistakes" but I still don't 'really' know that much about it.
I have done some ductor testing, primary and secondary injection testing, flash and megger tests etc. without learning a massive amount (yes I kinow what the tests were for). as this was not what was required, there was no need to understand fully as these were built and tested under 'instruction'.
I did do a bit of fault finding which I did find interesting, and I did learn quite a bit about some control circuits and HI and clean earths etc., but this was down to MY own interest, because I wanted to know more, most of the lads I worked with showed no interest whatsoever.

I have also worked on maintenance, which was mainly just unit replacement,and some fault finding

This was the reason I became a DI, because it is much more interesting learning about problem solving and it gives me much more testing and fault finding experience , and to get away from being robbed off of the various agencies etc. and puts me in charge of my own destiny.

I would never talk down to anyone who does not understand something, it is IMO far better to ask something you are not sure about than to carry on regardless, possibly doing something at best wrong at worst fatal. None of us know it all, I would prefer to ask someone who knows what I need to know, and not just give me a 'cut and dried' solution, as this won't help me the next time I face a similar problem, what I need are the reasons why something is done a certain way, and how things are worked out, or at least a nudge in the right direction of where to find the information.

For the most part this forum does this very well, and is a wealth of information from some very clever and very experienced people who provide knowledge that you will not get from any college course.

Cheers,
to All who contribute

 

[Engineer54]

This very true,

I have worked several times in the panel building industry (for global companies) building some well known projects. These can be highly complex, with motorised ACB's, PLC controlled switch boards, Intelligent motor centres and G59 protection relay circuits etc..etc..,

But this doesn't mean I understand them, yes I can read the drawings, yes I can run the cables, and yes I can terminate the connections, and can even spot "obvious mistakes" but I still don't 'really' know that much about it.
I have done some ductor testing, primary and secondary injection testing, flash and megger tests etc. without learning a massive amount (yes I kinow what the tests were for). as this was not what was required, there was no need to understand fully as these were built and tested under 'instruction'.
I did do a bit of fault finding which I did find interesting, and I did learn quite a bit about some control circuits and HI and clean earths etc., but this was down to MY own interest, because I wanted to know more, most of the lads I worked with showed no interest whatsoever.

I have also worked on maintenance, which was mainly just unit replacement,and some fault finding

This was the reason I became a DI, because it is much more interesting learning about problem solving and it gives me much more testing and fault finding experience , and to get away from being robbed off of the various agencies etc. and puts me in charge of my own destiny.

I would never talk down to anyone who does not understand something, it is IMO far better to ask something you are not sure about than to carry on regardless, possibly doing something at best wrong at worst fatal. None of us know it all, I would prefer to ask someone who knows what I need to know, and not just give me a 'cut and dried' solution, as this won't help me the next time I face a similar problem, what I need are the reasons why something is done a certain way, and how things are worked out.

For the most part this forum does this very well, and is a wealth of information from some very clever and very experienced people who provide knowledge that you will not get from any college course.

Cheers,
to All who contribute

I know what your saying here, but i would and do, find working on the more technical areas (such as mentioned in the first part of your post) far more interesting and rewarding and thus forefilling than working on domestic installations...

I can't for the life of me, see how domestic installation work is more interesting?? I can see however, that you would be in charge of your own destiny. But if you had taken a keen interest in the panel building, or more to the point, the testing and commissioning side of things, then you could have made a very lucrative career as a testing and commissioning technician on the bigger HV,MV,LV main switchboards and the like. Those guys can earn a fortune with the specialised companies, .....As well as seeing a good few countries in the process. So in a way you could have taken charge of your own destiny in a completely different direction!!!

 

[ezzzekiel]

And i also appreciate the negetive comments aswell. i dont take them personally but i consider it to be something constructive.

As an arms member with nigh on 4 years membership I take comments like this very personally

After a comment like that your opinions are reduced like you to NOTHING

 

[dagrat]

There will always be people of differing levels of knowledge and expertese which is where i beleive this forum comes into its own. The op has come accross something he is not sure about and has "dared" to ask for clarification on the matter. Surely thats to his credit.

Sometimes after reading particular issues in Bs 7671, and other relevent material, it is extremely helpful to read about it in normal language from highly experienced peope on this forum.

However when you see the mauling some op.s receive from certain individuals here, and they always seem to be the same individuals, just because they havent acheived the level of expertese and knowledge that "they" believe they should have,its dissapointng to say the least,

Surely insults and berating people is unhelpful and negative. If an op`s question is "upsetting" to some, all they have to do is ignore it and leave it to others to answer if they want.

 

[Spudnik]

A valid question is asked and within a few posts we are all dancing around the handbags again, alongside pulling the thread way off topic.

If anyone has anything helpful to add to the original question then please do, otherwise move on or start your own thread.

 

[oxocube]

Well, I sent the op a pm advising him that dual earths could mean clean and dirty earths and/or HI earths because I realised my post and other relevant posts had got buried in all this off topic stuff.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Well, I sent the op a pm advising him that dual earths could mean clean and dirty earths and/or HI earths because I realised my post and other relevant posts had got buried in all this off topic stuff.

Nice one, OC.
Let us know his response, if he can be bothered after all this!

 

[malcolmsanford]

Think OC was right about the "clean" earth, but unless we are going to fit a Rod onto Jupiter would love to know where the "clean" earth is coming from.

 

[Knobhead]

ezzzekiel, you insulted a respected member of this board. One who I look up to due to his experience in the law regarding industrial applications. I do fly off the handle now and again. But I think it was justified on this occasion.

You’re not backward when it comes to criticism!

 

[ezzzekiel]

I never insulted anyone i simply stated if he had nothing of value to contribute then he shouldnt (i believe you threw the insult), and it makes no difference to me how highly you look up to him, it was a valid and not very common question from the op and in my opinion should be treated as such.

Regardless though as Jason has pointed out this doesnt resolve the post and there is no further value to wasting my time on this thread, probably best to just close it as its too basic a question for anyone to lower themselves to answer eh!!

in the bigger scope of things though im not really that bothered - alls well that ends well

 

[telectrix]

may the force be with you.

 

[SW1970]

For a look into my former world...This is an installation guide for a piece of Cisco kit. Check out point 4 on page C-7. This is a DC box but the introduction to earthing and bonding in a computer/telco environment is well written.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/swi...gx8800_series/installation/guide/8850_apC.pdf