Good Luck Mr Damian Skelton (D.Skelton Electrical)

[UNG]

With the proposed regs amendment the new competent will be skilled it will be interesting how that gets interpreted

 

[trev]

Trev mate,

what ever the weather, I hope you stick with it mate. As in your point you made in post 146.

I said it in another post a few days ago but as far as im concerned you are the commander of the spartans

Thanks mate, I'll be asking the Spartans to start making a lot more noise over the next few days.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Trev, I by no means IMO am competent to even bring up my own children, but somehow i do it and neither have been arrested for rapeing cattle or rustleing women yet.....
Vested interest is, excuse the pun, interesting, in as far as one of the witnesses was a 'training provider" and unless you are of the complete niave persuasion, who has most to gain from a single register with one qualification required??

And Trev, do you really believe there are former milkmen doing domestic electrical work with only 2 hours of exam behind them? If so then this electrical work is a damn sight easier than I thought!

Commercial work, as far as you and I are talking, is a different beast. The facilities manager will have a duty of care to use only suitable qualified persons for said work and as such will be resposible for making certain that a contractor is competent and qualified for such work. Unless you believe that said milkman are also working on three phase systems with only 2 hours training...in which case I think I might change my trade to a milkman:43:

 

[trev]

I've sometimes doubted my own competence to raise children but I managed it 3 times and never killed any of them mate, not even a little bit.

The vested interest I mentioned refers to the way that the scams will badge anything that moves as long as they can stump up thus increasing their income and the salaries the top brass can take. they then say to all and sundry "Look how great a job we're doing. We have X thousand members all dedicated to raising standards as is demonstrated by their signing up and agreeing to our standards"
Of course there was a training provider at the hearing, it's the job of the committee to hear from all sides of the argument

Who has most to gain from a single register like I mentioned that will have teeth? The public who are basically having themselves laughed at by these people.

The commercial work I was talking about consists of the shops, pubs, restaurants etc. In a bigger place with a facilities manager then of course there's a checking and vetting procedure going on.

Do I believe there are former milkmen carrying out electrical work? Damn bloody right I do! I've seen thousands of threads right here along the lines of "I was made redundant from my job as ....... so I sunk my pay off into a course at the local Electrical Trainee factory now please tell me how to chase a wall"

You obviously think I'm wrong and you're well within your rights to think that but I'd like to hear what your take is on what the way forward could or should be.


NB none of the foregoing, or any other post, should be taken as me having a go at anyone and I'm sorry if it comes across that way. This stuff makes me really angry

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Thanks Trev, I understand and of course it should make you angry cos it your/our livelyhood.

So what is the way forward? Well that depends on your outlook, in other words is it self interest, or is it concern for an industry/sector etc........my outlook is self preservation, and before you all attack, ask yourself first "who you are"............me, well I'm me, I'm not an electrician, thats just something I do for a living. Dont get me wrong I like it, but would I fight for it or fight for my right to make a living.....only one contender there Trev.
So if the premise is to suddenly tell me I not competent after 10 years of fault free commercial and domestic work, unless I pay out for a very expensive and useless qualification, which adds no knowledge to what I already possess, then I will fight tooth and nail against it.

I toe the line as is and pay my dues, but if Im forced to take a 'not very qualified' then I'll drop out and stay under the radar and as such will be forced not to leave a paper trail, no certs etc which may result in less tax for the Gov (they know this) just like thousands of other self employed electricians hopefully.......and you will be left with an industry mainly of newly qualified agency foder with their NVQs, and your single register with a premium cost for qualfication and entry but with no teeth or apetite to affect or even acknowledge the disenfranchised........the real answer is of course to charge a premium for your sevices and refuse to work for peanuts, stop spoon feeding the ignorant and be the best you can be.....survival of the fittest as it were and the week and poorly trained will naturally fall by the way side (believe that and you'll believe anything):yesnod:

 

[markc123]

In 2005, the Labour government brought most electrical work in the home under the system of building regulations, designed to ensure safety standards.

That was my favourite part - shall we start another political war? I know this forum has a heavy labour backing...(can practically hear Trev calling for the reincarnation of thatcher)

Bloody labour

 

[trev]

Self preservation first and foremost but when the ability to do that is happily being eroded by what are supposed to be supervisory bodies signing up anyone who applies then we should be angry and we should be prepared to stand up and say enough is enough.

The assessment/qualification or what ever you want to call it does not have to be expensive. Gas fitters pay a lot less than any member of an electrical CPS and are assessed less regularly. Their trade body is protected and it's hellishly unlikely that there will ever be another contender for their crown, there are any amount of them in our game. I even looked at setting one up myself but then thought better of it.

A system of regulation and policing of the electrical trade works in many other countries around the world and it works perfectly well at a reasonable cost to the tradesperson. Why do we need the complete mess we have here?

 

[trev]

In 2005, the Labour government brought most electrical work in the home under the system of building regulations, designed to ensure safety standards.That was my favourite part - shall we start another political war? I know this forum has a heavy labour backing...(can practically hear Trev calling for the reincarnation of thatcher)Bloody labour

Yes it was done under a (supposedly) socialist administration (I can't believe it's not the tory party) It was a poorly thought out knee jerk reaction however Labour don't have the monopoly on those. Anyone remember Mrs T's Community Charge or the dangerous dogs act or many other examples of that bloody woman's short sightedness?However, we've been there and done that. This is about a way forward not backwards

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Trev, you only have to look at the last 20 years and realise that, although it could be done at a reasonable cost and in a reasonable time scale, what your asking for will be an economical opportunity for someone. You know that is the inevitability now days, especially with electricians...why? cos they wont stick together, just look how everyone attacks each other on this forum for instance.....solidarity no chance (unfortunately).

You forget that it is no longer common sense or fairness now, the uttmost importance is profit, the economy and cuts in government spending.....again what your asking for will cause lots of of people to be out of work whether rightly or wrongly and if that looks bad for the government then no chance. Policing by who? who pays for it? will you do it? for free? You said previously about informing on people...would this be a good idea?...witch hunt comes to mind.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Yes it was done under a (supposedly) socialist administration (I can't believe it's not the tory party) It was a poorly thought out knee jerk reaction however Labour don't have the monopoly on those. Anyone remember Mrs T's Community Charge or the dangerous dogs act or many other examples of that bloody woman's short sightedness?However, we've been there and done that. This is about a way forward not backwards

Do people still vote??? vote for what.. their all the same with different coloured badges..come on seriously!! No I dont believe anyone is that stupid anymore.

 

[Des 56]

No,not old jag lover (bless him),but old 2 Jags was where the curse was created

Fresh from bopping that guy with the egg facial, he never again found personal common sense to be of any use

Driven by the need to get the dole boys into gainful employment,he had the ultimate brainstorm
" I know"he proclaimed to his spellbound PA,"We can solve the employment,education and social welfare payment crisises with my brainstorm
"I will call it Part P"

"We will stimulate teaching jobs through the newly created businesses that will source my brainstorm"
"The dole lines will reduce because of the magic wand,the one that turns a redundant cow herder into a sparkman in a jiffy

Electricians everywhere will rejoice and wonder at its simplicity he stated

"But master 2 jags" the horrified PA declared,"the electricians are but workers with good heads on their shoulders who sought no conflict and solved the countrys RCD problems

"Get Tony on the phone,now" thundered 2 jags,we may need all his insincere smiles to pass this idea,but pass it must
In ten years we will have no electricians to fear, that tribe shall dwindle, my new race of workers shall be called Domestic installers


Oh 2 jags what ever made you so upset with the sparks in the first place,the punishment you inflicted was indeed fatal

 

[trev]

Don't think I mentioned informing on people, I ain't no grass

I know it will be an economic opportunity for someone and I'm OK with that, what I'm objecting to is the trade and the public being taken for mugs because that's precisely what's happening right now. One of the other reasons I'm shouting about it is because I've also read thousands of threads on here and other sparks forums whining on about how crap the schemes are, how crap the system is, how crap this is, how crap that is etc etc ad nauseum. I decided I'd give everyone an opportunity to stop whining and do something about it.

If it succeeds then we and the public benefit, if it falls flat on it's arse then everyone will have to stop whining because they had a chance to get behind something and chose to maintain the status quo.

The government don't seem to give a damn about causing unemployment among members of the armed services so why do you think they'll care about some admin staff. Yes people could be put out of work but if the system as it stands at present is allowed to continue then a whole lot more will be unemployed. You and me and a whole lot of others possibly.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Hey trev, sorry wasnt implying you were a grass govenor core blimey strike a bleeding light like sort of thing, I thought you mentioned something about informing on electricians for non notification or non compliance......wow sounds like the matrix. Anyhow sorry if thats not correct.

I think you should look deeper and IMO and with the greatest of respect open your eyes and you'll see that what your talking about is just a microcosm of the whole. In other words just a reflection of society around us throughout the world, a dumbing down and race for the lowest common denominator, at the lowest cost, without a thought for who or what that affects or destroys.

Im under no pressure from under qualified people, or under presure from an in rush of eastern european migrants, nor am I under pressure from terrorists, swine flue or an imediate flood or meteor strike. As such and because I think it so, Im not stressed, and dont consider or make judgements about things influenced through fear....fear is a control mechanism and as such and can be used to manipulate people and their opions and their actions.

 

[trev]

I've been around long enough to know exactly what you're talking about mate and trust me, my eyes are open. That doesn't mean that things just have to be accepted, nothing was ever changed by people just quietly accepting the way things are.
I'm also under no pressure from under qualified or eastern europeans or any of the other things. In fact, I often tell people that they could find cheaper than me. Then I tell them that I could be cheaper if I was prepared to cut corners. You'd be amazed at how often that line makes people think about what they're going to get for their money.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Hey its funny cos i say something similar and your right it seems to work.

I agree strongly with alot of what your saying, especially "That doesn't mean that things just have to be accepted, nothing was ever changed by people just quietly accepting the way things are".

We just disagree on the details mostly I think..........nice talking to ya Trev..

 

[trev]

You too mate

 

[Englishman]

well nvq level 3 from 2015 for DIs then lol, that will put the cat amoungst the pigeons.

Bet that won't include any renewals though.

And tbf, the am2 is not really designed for purely domestic sparks.

 

[Engineer54]

This taken from the ELECSA News....

“The competent person scheme was based on our model and we will continue to adapt and evolve our business accordingly to work within the guidelines provided by central government.”

And that's the very reason why the ''Competent Person Scheme'' has never actually been able to work and has little to no hope of ever working!! Business and safety are rarely if ever compatible, especially when it's the qualifying body that's supposedly responsible for policing!! We all know just how well that has worked since it's conception.

You need to get shot of all these Parasitic Scam Providers once and for all!! Start Insisting on a National Register for ALL Electricians, not just for the Part Pee crap side of things!!