Had an electrician around to do an EICR but was given a quote for work instead.

[888]

I've recently had an electrician around to do an EICR on my HMO property. The property consists of four flats (each flat on their own floor but not accessed via one door hence a license able HMO even though they each have separate metering for utilities). The property was completely renovated in 2005 so all utilities were new, Electricity meters, wiring, fire alarms all to standard of that time and signed off as such on completion with the appropriate paperwork. Anyway, with the latest inspection I've had with this electrician I'm being told that because some of the wiring and fusebox installations do not comply to 2008 standards they are illegal and I need to have work done to make it comply. He did not issue an EICR detailing categories of concern i.e C2, C3 etc. Instead I've been given a quote and outline of work he suggests being done. Is this unnecessary work for an EICR if the existing state of electrics is safe and compliant to regulations when they were installed in 2005? I have copied and pasted two quotes he has given me below. One for the flats and one for Landlord and communal areas of the property. I know this is a bit long winded but would appreciate anyone in the know giving me advice. Thank you in advance!

Quote given by Electrician:
Further to our recent visit to the above address, and upon carrying out detailed visual inspections as well as testing on your electrical wiring installation, we regret to inform you that your current wiring does not comply with the safety requirements of BS7671: 2008, and therefore, we advise a partial upgrading to be carried out.
This work shall consist of the following items:

MAINS AND GENERAL:
This installation is supplied via 1x Siemens box with only 1x RCD
Alter the old existing BS3036 fuse box by moving the 2x non protected MCB to the RCD protected side of the box.
Install 1x builder’s temporary supply to have some power while altering the box.
Supply parts and upgrade to BS7671:2008 all the hard wired existing alarms by opening the 2x alarms and doing the markings according to BS7671:2008.
Also open all sockets, fuse spurs, lights and switches and do the BS7671:2008 upgrading to the rest of the flat by opening these items and installing the marking to wires.
Supply parts and create the earth equipotential cross bonding to the boiler pipes.
The bathroom light is on its way out.
Replace light purchased by customer.
Label box, test and certify.

We estimate the cost of labour and materials will be £471.33subject to our standard terms and conditions as shown below.

NOTES:
Bathroom lighting (where applicable) will be waterproof light (IP64) with pull cord switch or switch located outside the bathroom. These (if required) lights will be provided by customers. Any needed new extractor fan will be on customer.

No allowance has been made for decoration work such as wall paper or painting.

All work will be guaranteed for a 12 month from the time of completion.

On completion of the work we shall issue an Installation and completion certificate in accordance with BS7671:2008 and the NIC EIC code of conduct.


And second quote on landlord areas:



Further to our recent visit to the above address, and upon carrying out detailed visual inspections as well as testing on your electrical wiring installation, we regret to inform you that your current wiring does not comply with the safety requirements of BS7671: 2008, and therefore, we advise a partial upgrading to be carried out.
This work shall consist of the following items:

MAINS AND GENERAL:
This installation is supplied via 1x WYLEX box with NO RCD WHATSOEVER
This WYLEX C.U. will be RCD protected by adding 1x 63 or 80 amps RCD outside the box, on outside enclosure and the related 25mm cables for N/L and 1x 16mm Green/Yellow for earth.
Install 1x builder’s temporary supply to have some power while altering the box.
4x MCB are not complying for they are not the same make as box, therefore illegal.
Supply parts and replace 4x MCB with proper 4x type B Wylex MCBs
Supply parts and upgrade to BS7671:2008 all the hard wired existing alarms by opening all the alarms in hallway and 4x landings and doing the markings according to BS7671:2008.
Also open all blanked sockets, lights and switches and do the BS7671:2008 upgrading by opening these items and installing the marking to wires.
ALSO, FOR THE ENTIRE BUILDING, DO A CONTINUITY AND ISOLATION TESTS.
Label box, test and certify.

We estimate the cost of labour and materials will be £653.31subject to our standard terms and conditions as shown below.

NOTES:
Bathroom lighting (where applicable) will be waterproof light (IP64) with pull cord switch or switch located outside the bathroom. These (if required) lights will be provided by customers. Any needed new extractor fan will be on customer.

No allowance has been made for decoration work such as wall paper or painting.

All work will be guaranteed for a 12 month from the time of completion.

On completion of the work we shall issue an Installation and completion certificate in accordance with BS7671:2008 and the NIC EIC code of conduct.


We trust that the above is satisfactory and meets with your requirements and hence we await your further instructions.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Sounds like he's on the make.

If you asked for the EICR, and agreed the price, then I'd ask for it again!

i love it when I see "illegal". Putting "illegal" is probably more likely to be illegal!

 

[Engineer54]

If you haven't paid this guy, ...Don't!! ..Employ the services of another fully qualified electrician, preferably one that has been recommended by a trusted party!!

Was this guy English by the way or one of our foreign cousins?? Certainly doesn't know how to write in English!!! lol!!!

Alter the old existing BS3036 fuse box by moving the 2x non protected MCB to the RCD protected side of the box.

I think this guy has confused himself with this numpty statement!! lol!!

 

[MDJ]

just insist on the EICR you paid him for and say you will let him know if you require him to go any further, in the mean time copy the report and post the whole thing up here so we can look at it and advise you.

 

[amlu]

illegal dodgy cowboy, stay well away.

 

[Marnik]

Stay well clear of this cowboy, I do not know which regs book he takes all this from. Particular liked the one about different make of MCB
to the make of CU being "illegal"?? , if this was the case, then half of all installations i test would be condemned!!!!

 

[Guest111]

Love the way he tries to be all official sounding with his wording and then puts "the bathroom light is on it,s way out"pmsl

 

[londonlec]

Get a refund, and a new electrician.

 

[Guest55]

never have i read so much gibberish following an inspection.
so , £1100 in total to get the installation upto code.
and i see this is an NIC contractor ? how surprising.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

I note a certain scheme provider mentioned.
biff beat me

 

[telectrix]

speechless.

 

[mwigham85]

You need to mark old cable colours with new markings you just need a sticker on the consumer unit if it contains both.

 

[mwigham85]

* You dont need to mark old cables

 

[SYKRAPS]

speechless.

Thats not like you tel lol

 

[mwigham85]

And the time it would take to do a temp supply he could do the little work what is needed

 

[thekingiam]

i think we need the name of this guy, i recomend find out who he is registered with and send them the letter he gave you, no wonder electricians get a bad name! never heard so much trype in my life! get another electrician in ,by the way when was original installation installed?

 

[telectrix]

just wondering where i can buy a BS7671 felt marker. the only bit of possible sense i saw in that quote was that there was no RCD prfotection at all. i can't see , though, how the job could have been installed without RCD/s in 2005.

 

[timo1]

Im a bit confused about the need to put in a builder board to provide power while working on the board? I find a torch saves a bit of time lol...Why not just get the original company back to perform the EICR?

 

[tony mc]

Supply parts and create the earth equipotential cross bonding to the boiler pipes.

Also open all blanked sockets, lights and switches and do the BS7671:2008 upgrading by opening these items and installing the marking to wires.
ALSO, FOR THE ENTIRE BUILDING, DO A CONTINUITY AND ISOLATION TESTS.


Read more: http://www.electriciansforums.net/i...t-given-quote-work-instead.html#ixzz2DFss6wnl


Read more: http://www.electriciansforums.net/i...t-given-quote-work-instead.html#ixzz2DFsNcbYP


Has a good understanding of the regs :6:

 

[telectrix]

but we are missing the point . the sparks was contracted to carry out an eicr. this should have been given to the client before any thought of remedial work was entertained. if you have not paid him for the eicr, tell him to swivel and get somebody competent in.

 

[Danspark]

If the installation was installed and signed off with all appropriate paper work as you say then it is still good until 2015. (Assuming the paperwork correctly stated that it was good for 10 years) Only visual condition reports required with change in tenants. If it is being tested now it is done so in accordance with the current regulations, if it was safe then it wouldn't become unsafe now, other than advising that there are non compliances to today's regs. IMHO

 

[telectrix]

he wants to open all the boxes, does he think he's on deal or no deal, with a fat payment at the end?

 

[Danspark]

"Supply parts and create the earth equipotential cross bonding to the boiler pipes" either this is just poorly written or you may require supplementary bonding. If this is the case your original contractor should do this as he should have done it in 2005. If he was an NICEIC contractor he will be obliged to do anything that should have been done at the time at his own expense; not sure about contractors registered with other governing bodies.

 

[Octopus]

I've recently had an electrician around to do an EICR on my HMO property. The property consists of four flats (each flat on their own floor but not accessed via one door hence a license able HMO even though they each have separate metering for utilities). The property was completely renovated in 2005 so all utilities were new, Electricity meters, wiring, fire alarms all to standard of that time and signed off as such on completion with the appropriate paperwork. Anyway, with the latest inspection I've had with this electrician I'm being told that because some of the wiring and fusebox installations do not comply to 2008 standards they are illegal and I need to have work done to make it comply. He did not issue an EICR detailing categories of concern i.e C2, C3 etc. Instead I've been given a quote and outline of work he suggests being done. Is this unnecessary work for an EICR if the existing state of electrics is safe and compliant to regulations when they were installed in 2005? I have copied and pasted two quotes he has given me below. One for the flats and one for Landlord and communal areas of the property. I know this is a bit long winded but would appreciate anyone in the know giving me advice. Thank you in advance!

I think you should start here with the "electrician". You asked him to provide an EICR and that is what he has to give you, clearly identifying all aspects of the "installation" which need addressing.

Have you paid him for the EICR?

 

[888]

Thanks for the feedback on this issue everyone! I did get the feeling that this electrician was trying to say that unless everything complied to 2008 regs that it would not pass an EICR. Therefore he did not issue me with a report but seemed to insist that I go ahead with this work to bring it up to 2008 standards after which he would sign off on everything. I did not pay him for anything as he did not issue me with anything other than the quotes to bring everything up to 2008 standards. What I think can be confusing and what I believe he was trying to act upon is, imply that everything had to be up to 2008 standards in order to be in correct working condition and that anything done to previous standards, even if they were in order to standards set before 2008, are now obsolete and needed changing to comply. Being a landlord I have had similar encounters with trades people when things need checking and by this I don't just mean Electricians. I only went to this electrician as he advertised as local (Also untrue but only found out when he arrived!) and the company that did the original installation was not, as they came in under the use of the contractor that supervised the work for the renovation of the building as a whole at the time. I will look into a few things that did spring up such as the lack of RCB in the landlord consumer unit as this was installed and signed off on after installation in 2005, (possibly 2004 as the work started and finished in 2005) if that makes any difference at all!

 

[Octopus]

Thanks for the feedback on this issue everyone! I did get the feeling that this electrician was trying to say that unless everything complied to 2008 regs that it would not pass an EICR. Therefore he did not issue me with a report but seemed to insist that I go ahead with this work to bring it up to 2008 standards after which he would sign off on everything. I did not pay him for anything as he did not issue me with anything other than the quotes to bring everything up to 2008 standards. What I think can be confusing and what I believe he was trying to act upon is, imply that everything had to be up to 2008 standards in order to be in correct working condition and that anything done to previous standards, even if they were in order to standards set before 2008, are now obsolete and needed changing to comply. Being a landlord I have had similar encounters with trades people when things need checking and by this I don't just mean Electricians. I only went to this electrician as he advertised as local (Also untrue but only found out when he arrived!) and the company that did the original installation was not, as they came in under the use of the contractor that supervised the work for the renovation of the building as a whole at the time. I will look into a few things that did spring up such as the lack of RCB in the landlord consumer unit as this was installed and signed off on after installation in 2005, (possibly 2004 as the work started and finished in 2005) if that makes any difference at all!

Ask him for the invoice for the EICR and the EICR.

 

[Sintra]

This guy is just trying to take you for a ride.

Surprised he's not looking £400 for a new saddle for his horse. Tell him to do one and get a competent electrician in to do the EICR.

 

[Sintra]

Ask him for the invoice for the EICR and the EICR.

No point asking for the EICR as it won't be worth the paper it's written on.

 

[Octopus]

No point asking for the EICR as it won't be worth the paper it's written on.

Be worth seeing though wouldn't it - especially if the OP could post it here.

 

[888]

Ask him for the invoice for the EICR and the EICR.

I think you should start here with the "electrician". You asked him to provide an EICR and that is what he has to give you, clearly identifying all aspects of the "installation" which need addressing.

Have you paid him for the EICR?

No, I didn't pay him for anything and he did not, and has not, offered to give me an EICR even though that is what I called him out for. He did go around the building checking the consumer units sockets and wiring and took notes as I would have expected him to do but he just emailed me the quotes for work stating things he saw as, "illegal" or not up to 2008 regs as you see in copies I put up. The first quote I put up actually concerns three identical flats that have been wired in exactly the same manner and he wanted to charge £471.33 for each of them totaling £2067.30 together with the work done on the last quote. Thanks again for replying to this.

 

[Sintra]

Be worth seeing though wouldn't it - especially if the OP could post it here.

True mate but then the op will probably end up being invoiced for it.

 

[Sintra]

OP did this guy just visually inspect the properties or did he actually test the circuits?

 

[Octopus]

True mate but then the op will probably end up being invoiced for it.

The OP invited an electrician to do an EICR - so at the very least, on receipt of the EICR and invoice the OP is obliged to pay him - if he doesn't pay the OP could end up in court.

 

[888]

OP did this guy just visually inspect the properties or did he actually test the circuits?

From what I could see this was a visual inspection but he did have a plug that lit up when put in sockets. I'm guessing this was a test of circuits of sorts! Also he checked how wiring was connected behind sockets and light fittings.

 

[Sintra]

From what I could see this was a visual inspection but he did have a plug that lit up when put in sockets. I'm guessing this was a test of circuits of sorts! Also he checked how wiring was connected behind sockets and light fittings.

Ok if that is all he has done it is not enough to be considered an EICR. What he has done is a visual inspection, the plug that lit up basically on checks correct polarity of socket outlets.

 

[telectrix]

as sintra says. plug in socket testers are only a first rough indicator. we usually let plumbers and BG use these to condemn perfectly good installations.

 

[yellowvanman]

If you do get an EICR that reflects the original post I would promptly copy it to the NICEIC for comment!

 

[B16 Tom]

I think we are all thinking it but no1 has said it!!!! The report is BULL. Find outif he is NIC EIC registered If he is report him, to them. If not report him to the local council. Then come back on here and ask for a local spark in your area to come and have a look?? Im sure some1 will be willing to help? Then we can see a real sparks report.
For now name and location please? Name an shame is the best way forward for this foooooolllll!!!!!!

 

[Sintra]

Please do not name & shame as this is a public forum

 

[SYKRAPS]

If the NICEIC find fault with th guy or he is not listed I think they have a wall of shame for unregistered pretenders using their logo for promotion of work.

It woul be interesting to see if the EICR is on a red, purple or green cert.

 

[Octopus]

If the NICEIC find fault with th guy or he is not listed I think they have a wall of shame for unregistered pretenders using their logo for promotion of work.

It woul be interesting to see if the EICR is on a red, purple or green cert.

From what the OP has written he hasn't provided an EICR or even a VCR!

 

[ste77]

As everyone else has stated this cowboy is creating work for himself at your expense. Looks like you'll need a second EICR done, this time by somebody not wearing stetsons

 

[SYKRAPS]

From what the OP has written he hasn't provided an EICR or even a VCR!

I should have added if or when the OP gets one.........

 

[ezzzekiel]

cant see the problem myself - seems pretty standard
fail the installation - charge to put right
then do eicr and fail on other areas - charge to put right
follow up with eic and charge final bill.

pretty sure this is all covered in the competent persons scheme Electrical Trainee training course day 2.

 

[Elmer BeFuddled]

pretty sure this is all covered in the competent persons scheme Electrical Trainee training course day 2.

Damn!! I just knew I'd missed something on day 2.

 

[888]

Well I turned down the work the guy was asking to do and asked if he did the EICR and for him to give it to me and he answered thus;


WE ARE NIC EIC REGISTERED ELECTRICIANS

YOU'VE CALLED US AND I GAVE YOU 5x NOTES FOR AMENDMENT WORK AS PROMISED AND AS SPOKEN TO YOU

I HAVE SAVED YOU £1,000 BY NOT DELIVERING 5x NIC EIC CERTIFICATES FOR FAIL

NOW SAID THAT, I LIVE IN (deleted for privacy) SPENT MY TIME AND DIESEL AND ACCORDING TO OUR WEBSITE -CAPITAL ELECTRICAL-
WE CHARGE £65 TO A MINIMUM CALL OUT CHARGE
I SAID TO YOU I WON'T CHARGE FOR I BELIEVED YOU WERE GOING TO GIVE ME THE JOB
PLEASE I HAVE TO LET YOU KNOW THAT YOU INSTALLATION IS NOT COMPLYING WITH NIC EIC BS7671:2008 AND THEREFORE YOU ARE ILLEGALLY RENTING YOUR PLACE
MY ADVISE AS A GOOD FRIEND IS THAT YOU TAKE ANY ELECTRICIAN YOU WISH BUT HAVE YOUR INSTALLATION UPGRADED AS PER BS7671:2008 SO YOUR PLACE WILL COMPLY WITH THE LAW

GOD BLESS YOU SIR AND GOOD LUCK


I NEED THAT CHEQUE ASAP IN THE POST OFFICE FROM YOU

 

[not clever]

Tell him to do one, your not paying until he sends the report.

 

[ROADESPARKY]

If that is exactly what he said to you he deffo not from this country. So prob got no qualifications to speak of and not even a NIC member. Sack him off and get a proper qualified English spark!!!!

 

[MDJ]

agreed with the guys here, no report no money!! you asked for a report I believe, bloody cowboys.

 

[B16 Tom]

What a nice guy! He saved you £1,000 BY NOT DELIVERING 5x NIC EIC CERTIFICATES FOR FAIL £200 for a fail cert??? cough cough how much are the passes?? can he provide them for a price?? are they worth more than GOLD?
And right at the end just before he robs you blind of your hard earned he say "GOD BLESS YOU". Now if only every theiving robbing mother f&^%$er was soooo nice. I would give them my wages!!!!!!!

Sorry lowest form of wit i know