How do we make this job pay?

[hyperloop]

Sewn up ? I am still working , so maybe i must have missed a stitch or two !
I just don't see why we need to work for nothing in this day of age ?

but we dont work for nothing do we?, I reckon I do ok, Im not making a fortune but ok, all Ive been trying to say is that at the moment most people are so stretched financialy we have to be very competitive, I was just trying to offer some advice to the bloke who started the thread, by the way I don't do vat returns myself - not vat registered, its my tax return I was referring to. used an accountant last year charged £500 and did it myself in a few of hours this year.

 

[morph]

i agree with hyper about the tax return but the rest is hard to believe , especially the costs of the vehicle

 

[hyperloop]

i agree with hyper about the tax return but the rest is hard to believe , especially the costs of the vehicle

Guess I've just been lucky with the van being reliable! Believe me I really am a miser when it come to keeping costs down!

 

[morph]

Guess I've just been lucky with the van being reliable! Believe me I really am a miser when it come to keeping costs down!

my van has been reliable i have spent nothing in 6 years but the tax is £200 ALONE plus mot plus proper insurance i am not spring chicken either and have never claimed so i wish it only cost £400

 

[JD6400]

I agree value for money rules the day and i often get a hard time from several of our employees for NOT charging enough , but even i can not see the point of cutting our throats to work even harder in already tight times.
And as for doing your book work in the evening , why not charge that little extra and employ a part time secretary a few hours a week .
If you have a family i am sure they will appreciate it and maybe you will be even fresher for work in the morning and get that little extra done ?
Sorry it was a typo i meant tax not vat .
Please do not get me wrong i deplore over charging but !

 

[ayjay]

I completely agree ayjay and have done exactly the same job and if we couldn't keep that pace up we would have been off the job only difference was we had plasterers following us

exactly trev, --ok there wasn,t the phone line or all of the modern data stuff to install, and we could use the cavitys to pull the ring cables down ,
in those days we used black &decker drills to drill the holes thro the joists , but they used to over-heat so we had to use a second drill, and hang the overheated one out of the window too cool down!

 

[hyperloop]

I agree value for money rules the day and i often get a hard time from several of our employees for NOT charging enough , but even i can not see the point of cutting our throats to work even harder in already tight times.
And as for doing your book work in the evening , why not charge that little extra and employ a part time secretary a few hours a week .
If you have a family i am sure they will appreciate it and maybe you will be even fresher for work in the morning and get that little extra done ?
Sorry it was a typo i meant tax not vat .
Please do not get me wrong i deplore over charging but !

ok fair enough, but im only talking about an hour or so in the evening maybe 3 times a week when the kids are in bed (theyre only nippers!)its just the way I like to do things. I'm not preaching that everyone should do it this way just saying what I do.

 

[roukel01]

The thread was started by a guy who can't understand how he's getting undercut all the time, and how is doing quotes and other admin' in the evening "bad business" - quite the opposite old chap, means I dont have to take time out of my working day when I can be earning, so yes it does give me an edge. How is it that that doesnt make sense to you? and if you dont want to do extra hours / evenings dont moan about struggling to earning a living.

I haven't moaned about making a living, luckily we're flat out at the moment and have been for a while. My point is that its bad business not to make profit on materials. If you had an accountant to do your books, he/she'd be telling you the same.!

 

[Specialist]

I haven't moaned about making a living, luckily we're flat out at the moment and have been for a while. My point is that its bad business not to make profit on materials. If you had an accountant to do your books, he/she'd be telling you the same.!

They'd charge you a packet for telling you mind Lol:smile5:

 

[roukel01]

They'd charge you a packet for telling you mind Lol:smile5:

True!!! But its a worth while expense I think!

 

[Octopus]

Hi Murdoch,
1,First I dont change van very often and do any running repairs myself
2,In my experience yes, its more economical to do it myself
3,I havnt had to advertise once in last 14 months (first couple of years I did though)
4)PPE costs very little
5)Elecsa is not much more than £400
6)good tools dont need replacing often if looked after
And yes I do quotes and other paperwork in the evenings - all these things give me an edge, so dont knock it!

So you're not allowing for replacement of your van and your tools - not ideal - but I guess that's up to you.

I pay an accountant but that's my choice and it amazes me what he does to my final tax and NI bills. Yes it costs but takes a large weight off my shoulders and when he's doing it I'm out earning.

 

[Rockingit]

I've been reading this thread with interest. It's highlighted to me the fact that whilst we all have common ground as sparks, those (many) of us who also work for ourselves all have different approaches to being businessmen, as well. Personally, I work the hours it takes to make a decent living, no more no less, and whatever that is, is whatever that is.

Some weeks you spend on the tools, come home at 4 and put your feet up, others you get behind in the VAT return, or quotes or the accounts and you're up at 5 for site, back early evening and head buried in your computer for another six hours to meet deadlines. I'm lucky that Mrs Rockingit is also career self employed so we both know when to cut the other some slack.

Times are hard, definitely, so you spend as much time looking for work as you put into doing it, and that's a whole 'family' thing. As I type, the OH has gone for a dog walk around an area that is 'unexploited' (in the business sense), armed with a pocketful of A5 glossy advertising flyers to do a Crimbo offer to install outdoor sockets for lights.

I don't trade on price as I don't believe in getting into a pee-ing up the wall contest, everyone loses, but what I DO trade on is customer service, reliability, fair and honest advice, and warrantying my work (and I don't mean the Part P warranty schemes).

There IS money to be made out there, even in todays climate, you just have to be a little more savvy and inventive as a business man to find it. I have lost count of the number of times a quick £25 light fitting change or a cooker rewire has produced many hundreds £'s of follow-on work either for them or their neighbours.

I think you also have to be careful in choosing your markets to target, too. It's pointless wasting time chasing a bigger commercial project which you won't get as all the bigger commercial contractors are out in force to do the same, at the expense of a job for Mrs Jones down the road that's not as sexy but DOES pay the bills that week and DOES actually pay on time as well.

As for the whole 'registered' electrician thing - yes, it's a mess, and needs sorting out. To a LIMITED extent I have a degree of sympathy with NICEIC as they are sort of on the right lines with the Approved Contractor scheme, not just the DI one.

 

[hyperloop]

I haven't moaned about making a living, luckily we're flat out at the moment and have been for a while. My point is that its bad business not to make profit on materials. If you had an accountant to do your books, he/she'd be telling you the same.!

I know you didn't moan about making a living - the guy who started the thread was, and it was his post I was responding to. He said he wasnt getting jobs as he wasnt competitive I just think if your earning £150 per day labour whats the point in adding £££'s on the parts and getting undercut as a result.

 

[J&M Electrical]

At the end of the day if your only getting 1 out of 10 jobs your quoting maybe you need to start looking at trying to reduce your costs or reducing your hourly rate. We have only just set up and have decided to pay ourselves the bare minimum, that way we can keep getting the business bank account full and hopefully keep getting the work we quote for.
As for rewires, we quoted £3200 for a 4 Bed rewire of an empty property. I quoted that using prices from screwfix/electricfix, but got materials from our wholesalers who we have good terms with so we made money on materials. We would rather keep busy and keep getting 6 Days a week work than 'over charging' and only having say 3 or 4 days work.

And 2 weeks for a rewire. At the old company we used to work for we were doing 1 3 bed rewire a day. There was 2 Qualified sparks and 2 apprentices. We did 4 a week, it was a graft but the weeks flew. No we arent rough or Bodgers either, we just had a system that worked for us 4 and we knew the properties like the back of our hands.

 

[nikmet]

"We have only just set up and have decided to pay ourselves the bare minimum, that way we can keep getting the business bank account full"

How does this work then???

 

[J&M Electrical]

How does this work then???

Pay ourselves £140 a week therefor we are within the tax limit (pay no tax). Keep the business account full. that way we can pay ourselves directors bonus' which we dont have to pay as much tax on. If the bank account is kept healthy that way we know we have money there for emergency's ie van breaks down/flat tyre, sickness, damaged tools etc.

I'm not saying this is the best way for everybody, but its working for us at the moment.

 

[Octopus]

Pay ourselves £140 a week therefor we are within the tax limit (pay no tax). Keep the business account full. that way we can pay ourselves directors bonus' which we dont have to pay as much tax on. If the bank account is kept healthy that way we know we have money there for emergency's ie van breaks down/flat tyre, sickness, damaged tools etc.

I'm not saying this is the best way for everybody, but its working for us at the moment.

Building up a reserve of funds is the ideal way to start a business. Most new businesses fail due to poor cash flow.

 

[OldeSparky]

are all you guys VAT registered??

 

[Rampage]

Pay ourselves £140 a week therefor we are within the tax limit (pay no tax). Keep the business account full. that way we can pay ourselves directors bonus' which we dont have to pay as much tax on. If the bank account is kept healthy that way we know we have money there for emergency's ie van breaks down/flat tyre, sickness, damaged tools etc.

I'm not saying this is the best way for everybody, but its working for us at the moment.

What's the rate of tax on a directors bonus?
i didn't know you could do this!

 

[Dave 85]

I quoted recently for a 3 bed rewire, habited and went in at £4600.00

This was all MK
Each day they would have floorboards replaced
Each day a cleaner would attend for 1 hour
Each day they would have electric.
It would take my team 2 weeks

I was £1600 more than the guy who got the job.

2 months into the job said customer phones me in tears, they have been living in a hotel for 2 months with a 1 month old baby and said electrician still felt it would be another 8 weeks.

They could no longer afford the hotel bills and could I please come in and finish off????

If I could have done it I would, this ended costing a lot more for a lesser job.

I use this as an example when asked why I am so much more than joe bloggs

16 weeks to rewire a 3 bed? I'd do that in less than 2. Alone. Sounds like this was probably a guy who'd done college but never actually lifted a carpet in a house. Ah well look on the bright side, its not exactly sustainable is it? £2500 profit for 16 weeks work.