How do we make this job pay?

[Octopus]

There's a little foot note to my rant! I quoted on a referb. recentley for a 4 bed 4 reception house. the work had been started by another sparks who had insalled the RM to the first floor and part of the first floor lighting and then bailed out claming he would not be available untill January for further work!

I quoted £4100 to complete the work including checking the work done so far and bearing in mind that the grounf floor lighting was mostley fire rated down lights. There were no left over materials apart from a few ends of cable reels and the materials alone came to £1500. I lost the job to someone who had quoted 'significantley cheeper'.

This morning I got a phone call from the 'customer' who had just paid their new 'electrician' for the completed job. As he was getting into his van he told her that she will need to get installation tested. The call was to ask me if I would be interested. I declinded as it was not in my interests to test and/or certify other poeples work, nor was I in a position to recomend any other electricians as I considered it unfair to place them in such a possition.

I know that some work is better than no work and that my responce may appear spitefull, but the legal implications of taking on the responcibility of unknown individuals work can lead to prison if it all goes wrong. Remember that it is your signature on the test cert. and if there is a fault not apparent in the electrical testing that causes damage, injury or death at any time in the future the insurance companies are going to come after you.

Staggering.

Lately I've been showing "test, certification and notification too LABC" on my estimates to ensure that clients understand that its included. I normally "cover" this verbally when I talk through jobs so that if they are getting other quotes then at the very least its highlighted that its included.

 

[Short Circuit]

Another knock back today - Wiring to new kitchen extension and new porch extension - New CU, 3 new lights, 2 external lights, 8 sockets, 2 mains fire alarms. The guy i am working with quoted her £700, she had a price for £490 blimey.

i would've been around the same price as you - its getting worse isnt it! (has malcolm come back already :tounge_smile

 

[GLENNSPARK]

It isn`t just peter "pull it in" downt bar now guys....take a look in tesco, asda etc.....drums of cable,...various fronts,...sleeving and clips etc.....now everyone can be a "pull it in" peter for themselves so even the traditional "undercutters" are finding themselves undercut........wonder how long before dis boards, MCBs, RCDs etc grace the shelves?..once the stevie wonders have maxed out their credit at the wholesalers they`l be down`t supermarket (24 hours?) goin wild in`t isles...........

 

[Dcf]

FFs it is 1987.you take a good few years to get your rates to a decent level n now you get kiddie on prices like this takin you back 20 years.490 for that is not even a wage never mind allowing for any profit ,overheads etc.my mate has done work for a guy for about 10 year.boy phones him up and says" I've got a plumber for £18 an hour could u drop to the same to get the work?"we had a chat about this n I tell him no way if he wants you he pays you what you want not what he thinks he should pay.end result is he still does the boys work at his rates.the point is the plumber is never gona get above 18 quid with this guy. Ever. Try making money at level. Aye right.

 

[morph]

At the moment I'm lucky if i get 1 in 10 quotes converted into jobs. I've found the most successful approach on large jobs is to provide the customer with a bill of materials listing all the parts and costs, a scope of works with details of estimated man hours and a quote with the final costing. This seems to give the right impression to the customer and the most accurate from my point of view of how much I should be charging. On the whole I've been quoting around the £3500 mark for a typical re-wire on a 3 bed house (unoccupied,add about £1000 to an occupied because they never clear fernature or carpets and it always takes a lot longer). Working on my own a complete rewire is hard graft and usually takes about 2 weeks. I'm charging £150/day for that and getting under cut in some cases by more than £1000! How do they maintain a profit and keep up to date with registration fees and other overheads?

your pricing is not making sense you say its two weeks for a rewire at £150 a day so thats £1500 are you paying £2k for materials then
they maintain a profit by getting the maths right

 

[alarm man]

It isn`t just peter "pull it in" downt bar now guys....take a look in tesco, asda etc.....drums of cable,...various fronts,...sleeving and clips etc.....now everyone can be a "pull it in" peter for themselves so even the traditional "undercutters" are finding themselves undercut........wonder how long before dis boards, MCBs, RCDs etc grace the shelves?..once the stevie wonders have maxed out their credit at the wholesalers they`l be down`t supermarket (24 hours?) goin wild in`t isles...........

im not suprised,you have the people willing to work for free,why not get a few quid while you practice

 

[GLENNSPARK]

im not suprised,you have the people willing to work for free,why not get a few quid while you practice

My point is...ok right to free trade etc but if these supermarkets are selling these goods....dont you think they should at least be offering guidance notes on how to install these products properly?....I mean many people are ignorant of "safe zones" and correct cable sizes etc...and how many of them will be connecting cookers over 2KW on a ring?.............this is just basic stuff but my boss and i have seen examples of this type of thing quite a bit....it just isn`t compliant and if people shopping in these places genuinely dont know...................

 

[alarm man]

My point is...ok right to free trade etc but if these supermarkets are selling these goods....dont you think they should at least be offering guidance notes on how to install these products properly?..

the same could be said of those taking the money from those who think they will earn 50k in 5 weeks time for a crash course in being a spark...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

the same could be said of those taking the money from those who think they will earn 50k in 5 weeks time for a crash course in being a spark...

Agreed. I chose the apprenticeship route and feel i will be better for it. dont get me wrong....i`m all for folk trying to better themselves but its a case of "you signed the cert...you take the rap" and i think the ammendments to part p are long overdue......

 

[GLENNSPARK]

right....i`m off....6.00 am tomorrow.........

 

[alarm man]

Agreed. I chose the apprenticeship route and feel i will be better for it. dont get me wrong....i`m all for folk trying to better themselves but its a case of "you signed the cert...you take the rap" and i think the ammendments to part p are long overdue......

certs and receipts will be few and far between with the 'part p electrician' as they like to advertise on their vans

 

[3wayselectrical]

your pricing is not making sense you say its two weeks for a rewire at £150 a day so thats £1500 are you paying £2k for materials then
they maintain a profit by getting the maths right

The point I'm trying to make is that £150/day is not enough to to cover overheads, expences and a living wage for a skilled trade. You take your car to a garage for servicing or repair and you'll pay alot more than that for labour. The figuers I've quoted are generalised examples. Here is a case study for you:

3 bed detached referb complete rewire.
parts = £1350 (this inatal called for 47 fire rated downlights, 28 double sockets on the ground floor, 16 sockets 1st floor)
commition on parts = £100
Labour = 12 days @ £150/day = £1800
test & commitioning = £50
quote total = £3,300

Th job was awarded to a quote of £2,450.

 

[malcolmsanford]

was the material quantities your recommendation or the clients as 16 sockets in 3 bedrooms/hall is quite a lot of sockets.

 

[3wayselectrical]

was the material quantities your recommendation or the clients as 16 sockets in 3 bedrooms/hall is quite a lot of sockets.

Costomers request/insistance.

 

[morph]

The point I'm trying to make is that £150/day is not enough to to cover overheads, expences and a living wage for a skilled trade. You take your car to a garage for servicing or repair and you'll pay alot more than that for labour. The figuers I've quoted are generalised examples. Here is a case study for you:

3 bed detached referb complete rewire.
parts = £1350 (this inatal called for 47 fire rated downlights, 28 double sockets on the ground floor, 16 sockets 1st floor)
commition on parts = £100
Labour = 12 days @ £150/day = £1800
test & commitioning = £50
quote total = £3,300

Th job was awarded to a quote of £2,450.

good luck with that !

 

[hyperloop]

Ive recently completed a 3 bed rewire (inhabited) with 19 additional double sockets!!! new dual rcd DB all certificated - £2150. Completed in 2 weeks, after parts and plastering around £1400. £700 per week labour which im happy with yes it was hard work, but theres a recession on and better to get the work than bury your head in the sand and moaning about how much you could charge before everyone was skint!

 

[3wayselectrical]

If you can get that sortof work on a regular basis then yes you can make a living at it. How many of these total rewire contracts do you get in a year? Once you've paid out for insurance, registration, bank charges, accountants fees etc. hoe much profit do you put in your pocket? As a limited company it costs me about £5000 per year in the above mentioned overheads without taking into account milage and time spent producing quotes and all the paperwprk involved. If you could do 1 rewire a month them you may stand a chance of breacking even. 2 rewires a month (and thats going some) you may even get to pay yourself a wage at those rates.
An average rewire is about £3500.00, that's £1500.00 for materials and £2000.00 labour. If you can crack it off in 2 weeks that's £25.00/hour which is not unreasonable as an hourly rate for a skilled worker when compared to for instance servicing or repairing your car which is on average £50.00/hour is it ?

 

[Rampage]

.....which is send from a fixed premise, so they have the same overheads plus:
Council Tax,
Business rates,
heating, lighting and power,
buidlings insurance,
higher cost business insurance,
maintenanc costs,
cleaning etc.

 

[Lux]

I would like to think that these guys that are ridiculously under cutting will not last to long and they certainly wont be getting any repeat business. If you don't make enough on a job then you certainly don't want to be going back to fix all the faults that are caused by all the shortcuts taken. Good luck to the cheapskate homeowners as well, you get what you pay for I say.

 

[Deleted member 19807]

I would like to think that these guys that are ridiculously under cutting will not last to long and they certainly wont be getting any repeat business. If you don't make enough on a job then you certainly don't want to be going back to fix all the faults that are caused by all the shortcuts taken. Good luck to the cheapskate homeowners as well, you get what you pay for I say.

they may not last long but there is a constant stream of new ones thinking they can do the job for next to nothing and leaving a trail of poor work behind them.