I never install ring circuits, the potential for danger is unacceptable

[ZEDEZ]

I’d like to know if anyone else here refuses to install ring circuits in domestic premises.

For me it’s either a 20a radial / tree circuit with 2.5mm, or a 32 radial / tree circuit with 4.0mm.

Frankly I’m tired of finding broken ring circuits on 32a CB’s, as well as mismatches on end to end tests. It drives me nuts on jobs that should be simple.

I wish we would get rid of this ridiculous practice here in the UK.

I know some of you will say there’s nothing wrong with it when it’s properly installed and tested, but inevitably at some point in the future someone will come along and disconnect a conductor unknowingly while changing outlets on the circuit.

Testing is more complicated, and diagnosing faults on a ring also.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Thought everyone had been on a Ryanair at least once. It was harmless humour, board waiting for dinner.

 

[Pete999]

OH OK thanks

 

[GBDamo]

HARD HAT ON

A Ring Final is intrinsically unsafe in that it can be inadvertently, damaged in such a manner as to overload the cable on the undamaged leg.

There is no denying or getting away from this FACT.

They are an anachronism, a stop gap belonging to a bygone era.

The simplest test, and one rings fail, is;-

IF THEY DIDN'T EXIST WOULD THEY BE INTRODUCED TODAY?

No sane person would answer yes.

They offer very little advantage over Radials yet, as stated, are intrinsically unsafe.

 

[GBDamo]

HARD HAT ON

A Ring Final is intrinsically unsafe in that it can be inadvertently, damaged in such a manner as to overload the cable on the undamaged leg.

There is no denying or getting away from this FACT.

They are an anachronism, a stop gap belonging to a bygone era.

The simplest test, and one rings fail, is;-

IF THEY DIDN'T EXIST WOULD THEY BE INTRODUCED TODAY?

No sane person would answer yes.

They offer very little advantage over Radials yet, as stated, are intrinsically unsafe.

 

[Pete999]

HARD HAT ON

A Ring Final is intrinsically unsafe in that it can be inadvertently, damaged in such a manner as to overload the cable on the undamaged leg.

There is no denying or getting away from this FACT.

They are an anachronism, a stop gap belonging to a bygone era.

The simplest test, and one rings fail, is;-

IF THEY DIDN'T EXIST WOULD THEY BE INTRODUCED TODAY?

No sane person would answer yes.

They offer very little advantage over Radials yet, as stated, are intrinsically unsafe.

Especially when lots of people aren't sure on how to test them and if they do know how to interoperate any results.

 

[telectrix]

I did but never the cheapo airlines, anyway what's that got to do with my question, trying to win some points?

pete. every time i see one of your posts, reminds me of this title:

 

[GBDamo]

Especially when lots of people aren't sure on how to test them and if they do know how to interoperate any results.

Sure being able to test one allows us to feel superior.

But it always amazes me that rings are defended with such passion, it's like I've just called their pint a puff.

 

[Pete999]

pete. every time i see one of your posts, reminds me of this title:

In what way Tel, Nice, Nasty or what

 

[chrisdungan]

Opinion from a Kiwi.
Found rings to be a bit strange when I started work in Eire. Decided they have their uses especiaĺly for simple installs like a 2 story 3 bed terrace. Anything much bigger they're a pain in the arse. Those fused plugtops are a pain too and so bulky.
My biggest concern tho is how half brained drongo without any training can call themselves a Sharkie and start wiring

 

[HappyHippyDad]

@GBDamo I love the way that 2 people disagreed with your post #93, yet when you posted a replica immediately afterwards (post #94) 3 people disagreed with it. I would stop now!

 

[Pete999]

Opinion from a Kiwi.
Found rings to be a bit strange when I started work in Eire. Decided they have their uses especiaĺly for simple installs like a 2 story 3 bed terrace. Anything much bigger they're a pain in the arse. Those fused plugtops are a pain too and so bulky.
My biggest concern tho is how half brained drongo without any training can call themselves a Sharkie and start wiring

A winner for the last Paragraph, don't agree with the first bit though, should that be Sparkie and not Sharkie?

 

[DPG]

Did someone just criticise the UK 13A plug (plug top)? It's widely recognised as the best in the world!

 

[GBDamo]

@GBDamo I love the way that 2 people disagreed with your post #93, yet when you posted a replica immediately afterwards (post #94) 3 people disagreed with it. I would stop now!

Yes but I know who they are....

And am currently working on where they live, swines.

 

[DPG]

To be fair GBdamo, I normally agree with most of your posts, but you're wrong on the ring final

 

[GBDamo]

To be fair GBdamo, I normally agree with most of your posts, but you're wrong on the ring final

Oh you can't sweet talk your way out of this sunshine.

I'm like Bricktop on steroids when I can get me arse of the sofa.

 

[Jjc]

I’d like to know if anyone else here refuses to install ring circuits in domestic premises.

For me it’s either a 20a radial / tree circuit with 2.5mm, or a 32 radial / tree circuit with 4.0mm.

Frankly I’m tired of finding broken ring circuits on 32a CB’s, as well as mismatches on end to end tests. It drives me nuts on jobs that should be simple.

I wish we would get rid of this ridiculous practice here in the UK.

I know some of you will say there’s nothing wrong with it when it’s properly installed and tested, but inevitably at some point in the future someone will come along and disconnect a conductor unknowingly while changing outlets on the circuit.

Testing is more complicated, and diagnosing faults on a ring also.

Qualified sparks see no reason to dislike rfcs

 

[Moosey]

I've scoured this thread and the only real reason I've seen the OP come up with as an excuse as to not install ring circuits is that they don't like testing and certifying them/can't be bothered with fixing existing mistakes? (If you're fixing mistakes, not only are you making installations safer for your customers, in business terms it's also more money to be made... just saying)

I'm only a trainee so I'm not gonna pretend I'm any sort of expert in regards to regulations and methods of installation for power circuits - because I'm not. But I can test a ring final just fine, surely if they're a qualified professional I'm sure they do it with relative ease?

 

[Charlie_]

Strange how this post has built up so much hype..
Don’t really see what the issue is..
Rings & radials are as valid as one another, whether they are in 2.5 or 4.0, all depends on the individual circumstances.
40 amp 4.0 ring - fine
20 amp 2.5 radial - great
All depends on each individual design

 

[telectrix]

In what way Tel, Nice, Nasty or what

meant in the nicest possible way....you old diamond..

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I've scoured this thread and the only real reason I've seen the OP come up with as an excuse as to not install ring circuits is that they don't like testing and certifying them/can't be bothered with fixing existing mistakes? (If you're fixing mistakes, not only are you making installations safer for your customers, in business terms it's also more money to be made... just saying)

I'm only a trainee so I'm not gonna pretend I'm any sort of expert in regards to regulations and methods of installation for power circuits - because I'm not. But I can test a ring final just fine, surely if they're a qualified professional I'm sure they do it with relative ease?

There is difficulty in testing rings on EICR's where the layout of the circuit is unknown. Very often r1/rn/r2 and R1+R2 may not be 'text book'. Then the tester is left with the ballache of breaking down the circuit to establish possible spurs off spurs or bridging, extremely time consuming, or simply noting it as an FI. Where a ring is a bog standard loop then it's simple, very often it isn't though.

 

[bernie4253]

During that time, after WW11, we developed the best and safest electrical supply system in the world. Even today look at some of the rubbish in foreign countries.

I live and work in France. In my humble opinion, the current regs here are in many (not all) respects better than the UK.

What I’m saying is don’t generalise

 

[The Mains Man]

When the topic was last aired, I said I would like to see examples of thermal damage to RFC cables caused specifically by overload of one leg, due to the other going O/C. None have been offered so far...

I was called out to an emergency job a couple weeks ago where just that had happened. Ring supplying almost whole house (bad & old design) had broken possibly for a while. Socket nearest db on longer leg had a hairdryer plugged in and melted cable insulation leading to a dead short.

I'm not saying I'm ready to make rings illegal, just that it is a problem when not maintained. It would be a better solution to simply enforce testing requirements more strictly.

 

[Deleted account]

During that time, after WW11, we developed the best and safest electrical supply system in the world. Even today look at some of the rubbish in foreign countries.

World war eleven. I missed a few in my history lessons.

 

[Charlie_]

I was called out to an emergency job a couple weeks ago where just that had happened. Ring supplying almost whole house (bad & old design) had broken possibly for a while. Socket nearest db on longer leg had a hairdryer plugged in and melted cable insulation leading to a dead short.

I'm not saying I'm ready to make rings illegal, just that it is a problem when not maintained. It would be a better solution to simply enforce testing requirements more strictly.

Would that not be due to the loose connection?
Which would also happen if it was a racial circuit

 

[Charlie_]

Don’t mention the war

 

[Zerax]

I live and work in France. In my humble opinion, the current regs here are in many (not all) respects better than the UK....

And what's your opinion on French plumbing ?

 

[Charlie_]

And what's your opinion on French plumbing ?

Sacre bleurrrghh

 

[ipf]

I live and work in France. In my humble opinion, the current regs here are in many (not all) respects better than the UK.

What I’m saying is don’t generalise

Why not generalise …….if you're talking in general?
Not talking currently, anyway. Think about 40, 50 or even 60 years ago.
The training, in general, regarding our regulations has been on a downward curve since well before the turn of the century,......all due to financial reasons..... pocket lining rather than lack of availability.

 

[Pete999]

Did someone just criticise the UK 13A plug (plug top)? It's widely recognised as the best in the world!

Crikey is this thread still current?

 

[-Matt]

I work mostly in coach building/mobile hospitality building, We very rarely use ring finals for sockets for the following reasons:

layouts are always being messed with, so easier to change not having to keep in a ring.

If a cable gets damaged in transit, we only loose a small circuit covering a couple of sockets, rather than a ring which would cover a much bigger area.

some installs are for europeans, and a ring would confuse them!

If something starts tripping while in use, and a muppet starts playing with the DB, no chance of him putting the 2 legs on a different phase!!

The only times a ring has really been used is when there will be heavy usage and only room for a small DB.


I now just prefer multiple radials for other work mainly for their simplicity.