Ideas welcome rcbo replacement

[Pete999]

10mm bonding to water and gas are in place

Don’t like MCBs and rcbo In series but only other option would be remove the MCBs in the board install a new board using Henley blocks on the tails. I’d then have to fit an isolator before the Henley blocks to give one means of isolation for the whole installation.

I could use RCDs but there are 3 circuits so I would need a 6way board to give me 6 ways as an RCD is double width

I could make a sub main from just 1 MCB to the new board but again this means that all the sockets are then on 1 breaker meaning you loose all the sockets



Most of the sockets in the house are being swapped so a lot of alterations taking place.

Most of the sockets are being swapped to doubles using converter sockets as the customer doesn’t want the mess to the decoration. 1 or 2 socket back boxes are being changed.

I could just turn a blind eye to RCD protection and mark it as a deviation on the Certification but I don’t feel that that is the honest and safe way to do it.

Fit an RCD in a separate enclosure to cover the whole board, that way all your circuits are covered. Turning a blind eye as you say, is not a professional judgement imo, if the client ignores your advice, and won't pay for the required work, then personally you have to tell them sorry get someone who will do the work and ignore the safety issues, it's your choice, and your name on the certificate, should you take your option to turn a blind eye. Tin hat on.

 

[Gazthesparky]

Fit an RCD in a separate enclosure to cover the whole board, that way all your circuits are covered. Turning a blind eye as you say, is not a professional judgement imo, if the client ignores your advice, and won't pay for the required work, then personally you have to tell them sorry get someone who will do the work and ignore the safety issues, it's your choice, and your name on the certificate, should you take your option to turn a blind eye. Tin hat on.

As I said in my post I don’t think it’s the right answer to turn a blind eye. I don’t think it’s very professional to not install additional RCD safety protection.

I was making reference to the posts who stated that changing a socket front is classed as maintain so you could in a round about way get round it.

I don’t want to just install a front end RCD as this means that the customers loose there whole Supply and again this deviates from the regs as they state that the circuits should be arranged to cause the least distruptipn

I’m planning I’m installing the RCBOs either in the board or in a board by the side as I feel this is the most professional route to go

 

[Andy78]

I’m planning I’m installing the RCBOs either in the board or in a board by the side as I feel this is the most professional route to go

Would not be very professional in my opinion to install differing brands of devices in the same board.

A separate board would be an acceptable way forward, either routing the existing circuits through RCDs keeping the OCPD in the main CU, or re-routing the final circuits to a new RCBO board.

By the time you have done either of those though the cost to the customer won't be far off a CU swap.

 

[Octopus]

Fit an RCD in a separate enclosure to cover the whole board, that way all your circuits are covered. Turning a blind eye as you say, is not a professional judgement imo, if the client ignores your advice, and won't pay for the required work, then personally you have to tell them sorry get someone who will do the work and ignore the safety issues, it's your choice, and your name on the certificate, should you take your option to turn a blind eye. Tin hat on.

Any Tom, Dick or Harry would change the sockets ............ so do the next best thing and do the work, test the circuit and note that RCD protection isn't present.

Life is too short to persuade people to do the right thing and you need to earn a living.

 

[Pete999]

Any Tom, Dick or Harry would change the sockets ............ so do the next best thing and do the work, test the circuit and note that RCD protection isn't present.

Life is too short to persuade people to do the right thing and you need to earn a living.

I gave you a disagree Murdoch, simply because Sockets need RCD protection, just because as you put it "any Tom, Dick or Harry could, and do swap sockets and ignore the omission of RCDs throught nothing more than ignorance of the Regs, isn't an excuse for an Electrically Competent person to do the same, in my opinion.

 

[Octopus]

I gave you a disagree Murdoch, simply because Sockets need RCD protection, just because as you put it "any Tom, Dick or Harry could, and do swap sockets and ignore the omission of RCDs throught nothing more than ignorance of the Regs, isn't an excuse for an Electrically Competent person to do the same, in my opinion.

And I've given you a disagree because testing the circuit properly AND advising the customer that they should have RCD protection is appropriate. NO modifications are being made to the circuit.

Each to their own ............... and yes I can sleep at night

 

[Pete999]

And I've given you a disagree because testing the circuit properly AND advising the customer that they should have RCD protection is appropriate. NO modifications are being made to the circuit.

Each to their own ............... and yes I can sleep at night

So we had better say we disagree with each other then, and leave it at that.

 

[Octopus]

Problem is that so many people don't understand the regs, and some simply don't want to hear .........

I'm so looking forward to AFDD's - not

As I said to the IET yesterday at Elex ............ they need to get the Plain Engelish Society to review all their publications....

 

[Pete999]

So we had better say we disagree with each other then, and leave it at that.

We'll be asking each of for a date at this rate Mate.

 

[Octopus]

We'll be asking each of for a date at this rate Mate.

Can't imagine anything worse ...........

 

[Pete999]

Can't imagine anything worse ...........

Nor me uggghhh, but my Mrs still loves me, I think.

 

[richy3333]

And I've given you a disagree because testing the circuit properly AND advising the customer that they should have RCD protection is appropriate. NO modifications are being made to the circuit.

Each to their own ............... and yes I can sleep at night

Have to agree with you here Murdoch. Socket outlets per se in this scenario. Don’t need RCD protection at this time unless the OP has omitted any info. I’m more worried about the suggestion of mixing different manufacturers parts contrary to IET and BEAMA guidelines.

Price to do the job properly else walk away.

 

[Midwest]

And I've given you a disagree because testing the circuit properly AND advising the customer that they should have RCD protection is appropriate. NO modifications are being made to the circuit.

Each to their own ............... and yes I can sleep at night

The whole house?

 

[Octopus]

The whole house?

Why not .... you can lead a horse to water but not make it drink ......

It’s only changing sockets ....

 

[Toneyz]

Fit an upfront RCD to cover all circuits:------------------------------
Fit RCD 13Amp socket outlets:-------------------
Don't forget to check the Bonding is up to scratch.-----------
In my opinion having an MCB and an RCBO in what will be in series, is not a good idea.
Pete,
Look at post 6 I have added to your sentences if you still can't see I will retype.

 

[Midwest]

Why not .... you can lead a horse to water but not make it drink ......

It’s only changing sockets ....

It seems the electrician who replaced the CU had a similar attitude, when there was the opportunity or requirement to install additional protection via RCD. This new work includes changing some of the back boxes, and single sockets are being replaced with twin conversions.

The guidance I was given at the time, if the replacement is like for like & is because of damage etc, then it would be considered just maintenance. This doesn't appear to be just that.

Not something I would do personally. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

 

[Gazthesparky]

Have to agree with you here Murdoch. Socket outlets per se in this scenario. Don’t need RCD protection at this time unless the OP has omitted any info. I’m more worried about the suggestion of mixing different manufacturers parts contrary to IET and BEAMA guidelines.

Price to do the job properly else walk away.

Just need to understand why RCD protection isn’t required? Yes if you were replacing 1x damaged socket front then that’s maintenance but every socket is being touched.

With regards to different manufactures parts in the consumer unit normally I would never mix and match but on this occasion the GET are obsolete and been taken over by schneider I belive so will look at trying to get one of those to fit properly. It’s like Vw,audi,Skoda, all parts share it’s the same company. I have a feeling though I will go the external RCD route

In terms of pricing to do the job properly, I had informed and spoke to the customer regarding upgrading the consumer unit to include RCD protection.

The answer I got was the other 3 electricians never said I needed the consumer unit upgrading your looking for extra work the other guys are just replacing the sockets.

Does that mean I should refuse the job as I know I will be more expensive because the customer won’t pay for the extra work of installing a new consumer unit

 

[Pete999]

Retype please

 

[Andy78]

The answer I got was the other 3 electricians never said I needed the consumer unit upgrading your looking for extra work the other guys are just replacing the sockets.

Does that mean I should refuse the job as I know I will be more expensive because the customer won’t pay for the extra work of installing a new consumer unit

Are you going to get the work anyhow as you will be more expensive due to your RCD alterations ?

Yes, sometimes it's best to walk, especially when a customer starts to question your professional advice.

 

[Gazthesparky]

Agreed, I’m not saying in this instance it’s going above and beyond what is required but sometimes you can over spec a job because you are striding for perfection. It’s all about trying to gauge the customer