Maintence Free JBs (MFJBs)

[Pete999]

Just read an interesting article in Octobers "Professional Electrician and Installer" (PE&I). Probably going to get my --- ripped to shreds over this, "You should have known better Pete"

How ever many of you now use Wagos, I don't cus I'm retired, according to the article and I quote "" It's important to note that the connectors and the enclosure do NOT qualify on their own as Maintenance free accessories, This is because an Accessory is defined as the whole equipment and may comprise of two products-the connectors and the enclosure-both have to be certified for use together, and installed according to the manufacturers instructions"".

It made me think of how many Domestic Electricians put these Wagos in a, say for example a CU extension box and call it Maintenance free, or in an adaptable box under the floor? made me think, what do you lads still on the tools think, am I making something out of nothing? shall I just shut up and drink the red stuff,? or am I onto something?

I await the backlash of abuse but I don't give a damn

 

[Wilko]

Eh? You'll have to explain that one to me!

Hi Archy, The feedback I got from manuf. was that all 3 connectors needed to be fitted within the RH end containment area of the Wagobox (in my pic). That is possible with the 773-104 connectors but not physically possible with the combo I had used. My combo would work perfectly well, baggy pants and all, but it isn't the physical config that was used in the MF testing and subsequent approval.
And V - yes the connectors are not marked MF, just the j box. That was what started me on my little journey to understand this a bit better. I'm still not 100% clear why not, but I think they don't mark them MF because the connectors by themselves do not qualify as MF. But the empty Wagobox does. Somehow that reminds me of a Yes Minister episode...

 

[Richard Burns]

The idea of the maintenance free box is that it has been tested as an assembly under the rather rigorous test conditions and does not fail. If you vary the design of the whole enclosure by making changes then it is possible it would no longer meet the MF requirements.
For the wago box the testing is with the design they have specified anything else has not been tested.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

As Richard points out, a leading cause, if not THE leading cause of bad connections, is bad electricians. Surely they are the ones who should be tested under rather rigorous conditions, not the boxes?

 

[westward10]

Hi Archy, The feedback I got from manuf. was that all 3 connectors needed to be fitted within the RH end containment area of the Wagobox (in my pic). That is possible with the 773-104 connectors but not physically possible with the combo I had used. My combo would work perfectly well, baggy pants and all, but it isn't the physical config that was used in the MF testing and subsequent approval.
And V - yes the connectors are not marked MF, just the j box. That was what started me on my little journey to understand this a bit better. I'm still not 100% clear why not, but I think they don't mark them MF because the connectors by themselves do not qualify as MF. But the empty Wagobox does. Somehow that reminds me of a Yes Minister episode...

I am certain those 222 connectors used to connect the baggy cpcs comply to BS5733.

 

[happysteve]

Wagobox produced a "FAQ" about their boxes, see the handy resource section.

The funny thing is, for years I've been carrying around the maufacturers' instructions in my bits box that claims compliance with BS5733 in case I was ever pulled up about it - I never noticed that the wagoboxes had the MF logo printed on them until wilko's post #19. I guess I'm just not used to stuff being stamped on the inside of boxes!

As for Pete's original post: I use wagos in a wagobox installed as per manufacturer's instructions as a MF joint, if I have to.

How I'm going to make my millions: an MF joint that you can use in the event of cutting though a cable, without adding a short "joining" length and needing two joints. So something that's sufficiently long (3-5cm?) and thin that you could strip the ends off the two bits you've sliced, join them together, then wrap around an enclosure, not much bigger than the original cable, all properly MF.

 

[Guitarist]

Isn't it just hilarious that here we are, professional electricians worrying about whether a connector is in the end segment of an enclosure, when 90% of the population including DIYers, builder, plumbers, handymen etc. simply stick the wires in a chocky block and, if you're lucky, wrap a bit of insulation tape around it.
Then, to top it all, some smiling head of "the electrical industry" on a vast salary tells us how great everything is.

 

[westward10]

Never understood why people wrap connectors in tape.

 

[Guitarist]

Never understood why people wrap connectors in tape.

They must think that it constitutes an enclosure I can only assume.

Actually, forget I said that. I don't think most people even care, just as long as it works.

 

[westward10]

Yeah but you see block and crimp connectors within enclosures wrapped in tape, never understood it.

 

[Richard Burns]

I believe the intent is that with tape over it you cannot accidentally push a metal rod onto a live piece of connector. Because this is just so likely.
Mainly a nuisance and I habitually put my probes through the tape to test for voltage, just causes problems and is a mess to take off, unless it is really old and just crumbles off.

 

[westward10]

Bit like people who run a strip of tape along all the breaker terminals, especially in triple-pole boards.

 

[Pete999]

Bit like people who run a strip of tape along all the breaker terminals, especially in triple-pole boards.

That's what they get taught on the Sparky courses

 

[Dave OCD]

I think we're starting to over think things that are second nature to any decent and competent sparks, in the end you can start to even doubt yourself.
I'm sure we've all come across hundreds of old screw terminal JBs in loft spaces and under floorboards, the vast majority if connected properly in the first place will still be perfectly ok with tight terminals etc.
As far as 'maintenance free' goes I'm happy to use the Ideal 'In sure' connectors in any suitable enclosure, often a small grey Schneider insulated enclosure. I'll secure the box with screws wherever possible and clip the cables and that will do fine for me, the only real advantage IMO is time saved especially in awkward areas, but I'll only use 32a rated connectors on RFCs just to give piece of mind.

 

[Richard Burns]

I think we're starting to over think things that are second nature to any decent and competent sparks, in the end you can start to even doubt yourself.
I'm sure we've all come across hundreds of old screw terminal JBs in loft spaces and under floorboards, the vast majority if connected properly in the first place will still be perfectly ok with tight terminals etc.
As far as 'maintenance free' goes I'm happy to use the Ideal 'In sure' connectors in any suitable enclosure, often a small grey Schneider insulated enclosure. I'll secure the box with screws wherever possible and clip the cables and that will do fine for me, the only real advantage IMO is time saved especially in awkward areas, but I'll only use 32a rated connectors on RFCs just to give piece of mind.

Remember that the MF testing (at least from wago) means that the current rating of the connectors needs to be derated for MF use. So a 32A connector will be derated to 20A, which is still fine for a RFC.

 

[happysteve]

Never understood why people wrap connectors in tape.

Probably adhering to the second half (if not the first!) of 134.1.1, prior to amendment 3...

 

[westward10]

Probably adhering to the second half (if not the first!) of 134.1.1, prior to amendment 3...

View attachment 33836

Disgraceful recommendations.

 

[richy3333]

Off topic slightly, but this is just a selection of the 48 JBs I took out of a rewire last year!

 

[Midwest]

Removing redundant wiring & joint boxes, you'll have the 'artifice police' after you

 

[Wilko]

Awright awright, I'll get some more appropriate sleeving and give up my baggy pants look

I found a fiver still in wallet and bought some "stove pipe pants" CPC sleeving and here 'tis on a MF RFC extension for CU move. Wago now giving sleeving guidance in the new box.

(well I thought it was funny ...)

 

[7029 dave]

Here's a fine pic of a 3X2.5mm jb - built from all MF marked or certified Wago bits. But the end result is not MF. That's cause I couldn't fit CPC into the end containment of the box. Ha. Only good thing was I worked it out before Inspector.

View attachment 33749

I do like the look of those MF, but J701 takes some beating so much moor room.

 

[7029 dave]

Trust me my J701's were MF.