Maintence Free JBs (MFJBs)

[Lucien Nunes]

AFAIK the Wagobox is not made by Wago GmBH themselves but by Connexbox Ltd. in the UK, who are a Wago reseller. Now while Connexbox may have been instrumental in obtaining MF certification for their assembly of box and connectors, the connectors themselves are designed and manufactured to be used without the Wagobox, indeed in their native Germany they were probably used in everything but the Wagobox. Therefore this might be a situation where an equivalent or superior level of performance could be demonstrated by an alternative enclosure, provided it is suitable for the application at hand, without onerous type testing.

Personally, I like Wagos but not the Wagobox. There are a number of specific points I dislike about it, although I have little use for them anyway as I never install T+E and they're not much use for MI. Nor do I usually require MF certification as most of my work is on show, or at least accessible.

 

[Midwest]

If ever I get taken to account about the suitability of the Wago connectors & Wago box (connexbox) as a MF JB and/or combination, I would use (as per Lees link) as evidence, that I had done all that was reasonably practicable, by using the said combination;

(from Connexbox)

'The Wagobox enclosure is a multipurpose maintenance free junction box designed for use with the Wago 773 and 222 series Pushwire and Cage Clamp Connector blocks.

BS EN60670-22: Compliant
BS 5733: MF accessory compliant system when used with Wago 222 and 773 connectors used as directed in BS5733 instructions
Ingress Protection: IP2X
Dimensions: 39mmx44mmx108mm
Weight: 46g (each)'

 

[westward10]

Here's a fine pic of a 3X2.5mm jb - built from all MF marked or certified Wago bits. But the end result is not MF. That's cause I couldn't fit CPC into the end containment of the box. Ha. Only good thing was I worked it out before Inspector.

Not liking that oversized green/yellow sleeving though.

 

[Wilko]

Re my big spaghetti fettish, some folks prefer the fuller figure you know

 

[westward10]

Re my big spaghetti fettish, some folks prefer the fuller figure you know

Bit bored so I thought I would be picky. Still annoys me though oversized sleeving, 2.0mm bore sleeving fits all T&E cpcs up to 6.0.

 

[freddo]

It's strange, every time I come across something at work, a thread pops up about it!

I spent most of today fault finding a 1 year old installation (not done by me!) That had these wago things installed everywhere. The faults I was looking at was missing or intermittent power, all the faults were poor connections at these things. I hate them so much!

Not liking that oversized green/yellow sleeving though.

Just right for shoving several CPCs in so you can stick them in the same push in terminal hole like I saw last week!

Not to mention the installation that had 50% of the CPCs sleeved with insulation stripped from 10mm g/y wire.

 

[Wilko]

Awright awright, I'll get some more appropriate sleeving and give up my baggy pants look

 

[Lucien Nunes]

all the faults were poor connections at these things.

This is not normal, I don't recall ever seeing or making a faulty connection with one. Are they genuine Wago (there are counterfeits and look-alikes about), correctly fitted and of suitable sizes for the cables?

 

[Silly Sausage]

But the end result is not MF. That's cause I couldn't fit CPC into the end containment of the box.

Eh? You'll have to explain that one to me!

 

[Richard Burns]

This is not normal, I don't recall ever seeing or making a faulty connection with one. Are they genuine Wago (there are counterfeits and look-alikes about), correctly fitted and of suitable sizes for the cables?

IF the connection is made correctly with the correct sixze of cabel then ti woudl be OK and I woudl not expect it to fail.

However as said above putting multiple cables into one port, not pushing the cable home, cable sonly jsut clipped by the lever action ones, having stranded cable with strands bunched up outside the connector are all causes of failure that I have seen.
In effect poor workmanship can cause failures but I am never sure how one can get such poor workmanship.

 

[Wilko]

Eh? You'll have to explain that one to me!

Hi Archy, The feedback I got from manuf. was that all 3 connectors needed to be fitted within the RH end containment area of the Wagobox (in my pic). That is possible with the 773-104 connectors but not physically possible with the combo I had used. My combo would work perfectly well, baggy pants and all, but it isn't the physical config that was used in the MF testing and subsequent approval.
And V - yes the connectors are not marked MF, just the j box. That was what started me on my little journey to understand this a bit better. I'm still not 100% clear why not, but I think they don't mark them MF because the connectors by themselves do not qualify as MF. But the empty Wagobox does. Somehow that reminds me of a Yes Minister episode...

 

[Richard Burns]

The idea of the maintenance free box is that it has been tested as an assembly under the rather rigorous test conditions and does not fail. If you vary the design of the whole enclosure by making changes then it is possible it would no longer meet the MF requirements.
For the wago box the testing is with the design they have specified anything else has not been tested.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

As Richard points out, a leading cause, if not THE leading cause of bad connections, is bad electricians. Surely they are the ones who should be tested under rather rigorous conditions, not the boxes?

 

[westward10]

Hi Archy, The feedback I got from manuf. was that all 3 connectors needed to be fitted within the RH end containment area of the Wagobox (in my pic). That is possible with the 773-104 connectors but not physically possible with the combo I had used. My combo would work perfectly well, baggy pants and all, but it isn't the physical config that was used in the MF testing and subsequent approval.
And V - yes the connectors are not marked MF, just the j box. That was what started me on my little journey to understand this a bit better. I'm still not 100% clear why not, but I think they don't mark them MF because the connectors by themselves do not qualify as MF. But the empty Wagobox does. Somehow that reminds me of a Yes Minister episode...

I am certain those 222 connectors used to connect the baggy cpcs comply to BS5733.

 

[happysteve]

Wagobox produced a "FAQ" about their boxes, see the handy resource section.

The funny thing is, for years I've been carrying around the maufacturers' instructions in my bits box that claims compliance with BS5733 in case I was ever pulled up about it - I never noticed that the wagoboxes had the MF logo printed on them until wilko's post #19. I guess I'm just not used to stuff being stamped on the inside of boxes!

As for Pete's original post: I use wagos in a wagobox installed as per manufacturer's instructions as a MF joint, if I have to.

How I'm going to make my millions: an MF joint that you can use in the event of cutting though a cable, without adding a short "joining" length and needing two joints. So something that's sufficiently long (3-5cm?) and thin that you could strip the ends off the two bits you've sliced, join them together, then wrap around an enclosure, not much bigger than the original cable, all properly MF.

 

[Guitarist]

Isn't it just hilarious that here we are, professional electricians worrying about whether a connector is in the end segment of an enclosure, when 90% of the population including DIYers, builder, plumbers, handymen etc. simply stick the wires in a chocky block and, if you're lucky, wrap a bit of insulation tape around it.
Then, to top it all, some smiling head of "the electrical industry" on a vast salary tells us how great everything is.

 

[westward10]

Never understood why people wrap connectors in tape.

 

[Guitarist]

Never understood why people wrap connectors in tape.

They must think that it constitutes an enclosure I can only assume.

Actually, forget I said that. I don't think most people even care, just as long as it works.

 

[westward10]

Yeah but you see block and crimp connectors within enclosures wrapped in tape, never understood it.

 

[Richard Burns]

I believe the intent is that with tape over it you cannot accidentally push a metal rod onto a live piece of connector. Because this is just so likely.
Mainly a nuisance and I habitually put my probes through the tape to test for voltage, just causes problems and is a mess to take off, unless it is really old and just crumbles off.