NICEIC Certification Scheme Niceic test

[Lee76]

Hi all, just joined this great forum

im looking to start an electrical (domestic only ) conpany
with my partner.

I have 22 year experience as an electrician in a steel works
but have bsc electrial &electronic engineering
and my 17th edition. I have the ability to
wire houses to the regs.

My my partner has his inspection and testing
and 17th edition

To sign off our own rewires I'm guessing we will need to join the niceic or electsa
Or others.

We we need to show the inspection officer some of our work, minor and major

could we rewire an old house ( not new build )
get the inspector out to see it all ?
So all the minor and major work all in one ?

would I need to inform the council before starting rewire?
even though it's an old house and the owner isn't planning on informing
council of a rewire ?

can I then use this as our test , hopefully be ticked off by niceic
and give the owner a test certificate ?

Cheers all in advance ?

 

[Octopus]

You need to contact the schemes to understand their requirements AND familiarise yourselves with the requirements of Part P applicable to Wales....

 

[courtwba1]

Im in the same boat, i want to start on my own but dont understand how to go about it. If i wanted to join NICEIC i havent done of my own work so how can i be assessed. I have my C+G 2391 C+G part 2 ,17th edition and nvq3 but no part P would i have to go on this course.

 

[Octopus]

Im in the same boat, i want to start on my own but dont understand how to go about it. If i wanted to join NICEIC i havent done of my own work so how can i be assessed. I have my C+G 2391 C+G part 2 ,17th edition and nvq3 but no part P would i have to go on this course.

Why do you need this?

Ring the NICEIC and talk to them....

 

[telectrix]

you should be able to do the job, book the assessment, pay the ransom, then notify through your chosen scam.

 

[Octopus]

Oh, and with 2 of you will need to be VAT registered.......

 

[Essex_]

VAT? How comes?

 

[Octopus]

VAT? How comes?

VAT threshold is £79K based on turnover - for ANY 12 months HMRC choose.

If 2 people don't create £79K in 1 year they need to go shelf stacking in Tesco's.

 

[Essex_]

I thought that is where you were going. Just did not want to put myself out there and look like a plum. Haha.

They could have a slow start I suppose.

 

[andyb]

VAT threshold is £79K based on turnover - for ANY 12 months HMRC choose.

If 2 people don't create £79K in 1 year they need to go shelf stacking in Tesco's.

That's right, although it's currently £81K

 

[Octopus]

That's right, although it's currently £81K

Oops, I stand corrected, not sure 2015/16 has been announced yet...

 

[Leesparkykent]

http://www.niceic.com/Uploads/File5487.pdf

http://www.niceic.com/Uploads/File10248.pdf

http://www.niceic.com/Uploads/File9449.pdf

http://www.niceic.com/Uploads/File9447.pdf

 

[andyb]

Oops, I stand corrected, not sure 2015/16 has been announced yet...

I don't think so either, but makes no difference in this case as you said, 2 electricians will be turning over more than 80 odd grand.
They could stay as sole traders and just share the work, messy though.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Im in the same boat, i want to start on my own but dont understand how to go about it. If i wanted to join NICEIC i havent done of my own work so how can i be assessed. I have my C+G 2391 C+G part 2 ,17th edition and nvq3 but no part P would i have to go on this course.

Part P is a building regs document,not a course/qualification. You can read the document online.

 

[newtothis]

im looking to start an electrical (domestic only ) conpany
with my partner.

Being vat registered in the domestic market.
You'll be 20% more expensive than potential competitors.
I'd try to avoid being an unpaid tax collector as long as you can.
That's just my opinion, not saying it's right for everyone. :biggrin:

 

[uksparks]

VAT threshold is £79K based on turnover - for ANY 12 months HMRC choose.

If 2 people don't create £79K in 1 year they need to go shelf stacking in Tesco's.

How much would you say is a typical amount to earn for a one man band like me? I say, so long as I bring home enough to pay the bills and a bit more I'm happy.

 

[Octopus]

How much would you say is a typical amount to earn for a one man band like me? I say, so long as I bring home enough to pay the bills and a bit more I'm happy.

VAT registration is not based on earnings, it based on turn over, so the sum total of your invoices to customers......

If you are SE and do lots of high value "installs" you could easily smash through the £81K threshold - and remember HMRC can apply ANY 12 month period that suits them - not you!

 

[davesparks]

On the other hand if you do a lot of labour-only work then you can have a relatively low turnover.

 

[Octopus]

On the other hand if you do a lot of labour-only work then you can have a relatively low turnover.

The OP talks about doing their own rewires.....

 

[sparksburnout]

If your just doing domestic forget about the NIC go with Stroma they are much cheaper and they all provide the same thing. ALL domestic customers havnt got a clue what the scams are so having an NIC sticker on your van means nothing.

 

[Leesparkykent]

If your just doing domestic forget about the NIC go with Stroma they are much cheaper and they all provide the same thing. ALL domestic customers havnt got a clue what the scams are so having an NIC sticker on your van means nothing.

Only today I had a potential customer ask me if I was NIC registered they didn't say are you part P registered. Must be all the Subliminal advertising the NICEIC do lol.

 

[sparksburnout]

Only today I had a potential customer ask me if I was NIC registered they didn't say are you part P registered. Must be all the Subliminal advertising the NICEIC do lol.

What a domestic one??? You must have had an enquiry from the only domestic customer in the country that knows what part P is!

 

[Leesparkykent]

What a domestic one??? You must have had an enquiry from the only domestic customer in the country that knows what part P is!

Yep a domestic customer. Must be all the program's Dominic Littlewood and Matt Allwright do putting the Shivers up people lol.

 

[Octopus]

Lots of customers on my patch are well aware of Part P......

 

[Leesparkykent]

Lots of customers on my patch are well aware of Part P......

Same here in my manor.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Same here in my manor.

OMG, Danny Dyer is on the forum

 

[Leesparkykent]

OMG, Danny Dyer is on the forum

Haha.....

 

[Lee76]

vat registered ?? Wow wow wow wow
I'm talking small fry to start , just mostly
minor works and full rewires when they come along.

I understand we need to be registered with them lot
if we do any work such as :

working in bathrooms
outside lights
extra sockets
Any new installations
and board changes

I can't see the point in being an electrician who
can only do minor works so at present I'm willing to pay the fee to them.

im fancing elecsa at the mo?

anyone have a preference ?

 

[Des 56]

Lee.where in Wales are you,I have worked a lot in many of the council areas and have yet to find any local authority with the slightest interest in compliance with part P (other than on their own tendered work)

If you are doing private domestic,few if any exactly gives a hoot about part p compliance especially the householder?

If you do register,you certainly can rewire that empty house and get the scam to inspect
To the letter of the regs you are supposed to inform the council and pay a large fee,but why pay (if you can avoid) in order to do the job you were trained for ?

 

[Lee76]

Lee.where in Wales are you,I have worked a lot in many of the council areas and have yet to find any local authority with the slightest interest in compliance with part P (other than on their own tendered work)

If you are doing private domestic,few if any exactly gives a hoot about part p compliance especially the householder?

If you do register,you certainly can rewire that empty house and get the scam to inspect
To the letter of the regs you are supposed to inform the council and pay a large fee,but why pay (if you can avoid) in order to do the job you were trained for ?

South Wales , Bridgend area.
The only time the building inspector cares I guess is
if it's say an extension on a house , where they want to see the
Test certificate, the owner of that house would surely want an
electrician who can sign their own work off to wire that extension.

So If the council don't care, do some electrians get away with doing major
works and don't issue any certificate and move onto the next job
if the home owners don't care ?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

South Wales , Bridgend area.
The only time the building inspector cares I guess is
if it's say an extension on a house , where they want to see the
Test certificate, the owner of that house would surely want an
electrician who can sign their own work off to wire that extension.

So If the council don't care, do some electrians get away with doing major
works and don't issue any certificate and move onto the next job
if the home owners don't care ?

What makes you think you cant issue a certificate?
Generic certficates not linked to a scam are widely available,issue one of those.
If the work is carried out in accordance with bs 7671,and the correct certificate issued by an electrically competant person thats all that matters.

 

[shanky887614]

South Wales , Bridgend area.
The only time the building inspector cares I guess is
if it's say an extension on a house , where they want to see the
Test certificate, the owner of that house would surely want an
electrician who can sign their own work off to wire that extension.

So If the council don't care, do some electrians get away with doing major
works and don't issue any certificate and move onto the next job
if the home owners don't care ?

What makes you think you cant issue a certificate?
Generic certficates not linked to a scam are widely available,issue one of those.
If the work is carried out in accordance with bs 7671,and the correct certificate issued by an electrically competant person thats all that matters.

the only time you need to be registered with a scam is if bc demand one because of the type of work or they won't sign the build off.

afterall they tend to send subbies to test and inspect before signing off if you pay.

being a member of a scam just lessons the headache with using bc

 

[andyb]

As already said, you should certify your own work regardless, the advantage of joining a scheme is ease & cost of notification.
Wholesalers normally stack paper certificates or you could buy digital certs like EasyCert, Castline lets you download their basic installation and minor works certificates for free.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Lee.where in Wales are you,I have worked a lot in many of the council areas and have yet to find any local authority with the slightest interest in compliance with part P (other than on their own tendered work)

If you are doing private domestic,few if any exactly gives a hoot about part p compliance especially the householder?

If you do register,you certainly can rewire that empty house and get the scam to inspect
To the letter of the regs you are supposed to inform the council and pay a large fee,but why pay (if you can avoid) in order to do the job you were trained for ?

I agree with you that Part P is frankly a waste of time. All I will say is though, while it is here we should all be complying with it for out customers sake either though BC or a CPS. It is happening a lot where customers have had notifible works carried out, not notified and are then having problems with solicitors when selling their house. Solicitors are very aware of Part P. Part P is not going to go away. Someone who is not registered (or at least informing BC each time and ensuring it is acceptable) should not be carrying out notifiable works as it is short changing the homeowner.

 

[Plonker 3]

. Someone who is not registered (or at least informing BC each time and ensuring it is acceptable) should not be carrying out notifiable works as it is short changing the homeowner.

Why are they? It is the homeowners responsibility to notify LABC of any Part P notifiable works.

 

[Octopus]

Why are they? It is the homeowners responsibility to notify LABC of any Part P notifiable works.

Whilst this is essence is correct, I would suggest that over 90% of sparks are aware of Part P and thus if the customer isn't aware, its our responsibility to tell them....

 

[Plonker 3]

Whilst this is essence is correct, I would suggest that over 90% of sparks are aware of Part P and thus if the customer isn't aware, its our responsibility to tell them....

Thats not what TJ said though. Yes we can educate, but to not be allowed to carry out the works is wrong.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Thats not what TJ said though. Yes we can educate, but to not be allowed to carry out the works is wrong.

You can. But as you are not part of a CPS if you do any notifiable work you should be getting the LABC involved and they will send one of their appointed contractors to pull your work apart lol.

 

[pennychew]

OMG, Danny Dyer is on the forum

Pwoper norty!

 

[Des 56]

Originally Posted by Des 56
Lee.where in Wales are you,I have worked a lot in many of the council areas and have yet to find any local authority with the slightest interest in compliance with part P (other than on their own tendered work)

If you are doing private domestic,few if any exactly gives a hoot about part p compliance especially the householder?

If you do register,you certainly can rewire that empty house and get the scam to inspect
To the letter of the regs you are supposed to inform the council and pay a large fee,but why pay (if you can avoid) in order to do the job you were trained for ?

I agree with you that Part P is frankly a waste of time. All I will say is though, while it is here we should all be complying with it for out customers sake either though BC or a CPS. It is happening a lot where customers have had notifible works carried out, not notified and are then having problems with solicitors when selling their house. Solicitors are very aware of Part P. Part P is not going to go away. Someone who is not registered (or at least informing BC each time and ensuring it is acceptable) should not be carrying out notifiable works as it is short changing the homeowner.

Just to make clear my own position to you TJ
I am registered with a scam,I am one of the idiots who is foolish enough to pay money to one of these scams for the pleasure of carrying out my trade
When this years membership runs out,I would be an absolute moron if I again pay them money
I hardly ever notify my work as things stand,I can't be arsed with the part p anymore

 

[Lee76]

Originally Posted by Des 56

Just to make clear my own position to you TJ
I am registered with a scam,I am one of the idiots who is foolish enough to pay money to one of these scams for the pleasure of carrying out my trade
When this years membership runs out,I would be an absolute moron if I again pay them money
I hardly ever notify my work as things stand,I can't be arsed with the part p anymore

thanks for the reply Des, so will you continue to do total rewires and just
not sign them off ?

Are you allowed to rewire an older house , test and fill
out one of the readily available test sheets and give to the customer
if they don't wish to inform building control ?

some people who plan to live in a house forever probably
won't care to tell council they are rewiring/renovating their home ?

 

[Des 56]

This thread has given the impression by some posters that there is a problem when people who have had work done and there is no proof of notification when thy come to sell their house,complete and utter nonsense

There is very little if any "problem" as regards house sale,eicrs at present trump all and every aspect of lack of Part P notification and has become the accepted means of satisying buyers solicitor demands

I personally have done quite a lot of Eicrs these last few years,each specifically because of this "problem" as its been described
Part p is dead (even in Wales where it remains less diluted than England,it never really existed to the great mass of people)

 

[andyb]

This thread has given the impression by some posters that there is a problem when people who have had work done and there is no proof of notification when thy come to sell their house,complete and utter nonsense

There is very little if any "problem" as regards house sale,eicrs at present trump all and every aspect of lack of Part P notification and has become the accepted means of satisying buyers solicitor demands

I personally have done quite a lot of Eicrs these last few years,each specifically because of this "problem" as its been described
Part p is dead (even in Wales where it remains less diluted than England,it never really existed to the great mass of people)

That's true actually, I been asked several times for a copy of the certificate a year or two after the work when they have come to sell the property.
However, it's not notification proof that they want, it's just a cert.

 

[Des 56]

thanks for the reply Des, so will you continue to do total rewires and just
not sign them off ? Most certainly

Are you allowed to rewire any house , test and fill
out one of the readily available test sheets and give to the customer yes
if they don't wish to inform building control ? that is for them to decide(assuming they had ever heard of Part p in the first place)

some people who plan to live in a house forever probably
won't care to tell council they are rewiring/renovating their home house sales are not restricted in any way by lack of notification to a council?

Certification to Bs7671 to demonstrate that you installed and tested an installation is a requirement of those regs (whatever pretty colour or logo form is used)
Notification to the council is in the end a householders responsibility

I leave you with one interesting opinion
No one has ever been prosecuted for not notifying a safe and compliant installation

 

[Leesparkykent]

If you carry out lots of notifiable work then The most cost affective way is to be part of a scheme.
Doing two or 3 notifiable jobs through your scheme vs the cost of involving LABC and one of their appointed contractors to test your work your initial outlay to join the scheme will be covered. IMO lots of customer are aware of part P and lots more becoming aware. It's likely that you could loose potential work if you are not part of a scheme and the customer is fully aware of part P. If you are not part of a scheme and the customer requires notification then your price is going to have to be at least a few hundred cheaper than the next spark who has quoted and is part of the a scheme due to the fact of the customer having to get LABC involved when using you or if you do this on their behalf your price will have to be at least a few hundred more to cover the cost.IMO From a business point of view it makes financial sense to be part of a scheme if you are carrying out notifiable work.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Electrical Safety Council applauds first prosecution under new electrical safety law | Electrical Safety First

 

[Des 56]

case 1
pleading guilty to breaking the new electrical safety regulations.

case 2
In a separate incident, a rogue electrician, who falsely claimed to be approved by the NICEIC, was fined £16,000 after admitting 23 counts of breaching Building Regulations whilst working in a house in Newcastle.

Sorry Lee.I can't accept those as proof of enforcement of part p
Those are for dangerous installation work and miss use of the Niceic logo

No one has far as I know has ever been prosecuted for not notifying a safe compliant installation,ever,or ever likely would be