Discuss No earth in lighting circuit in the Lighting Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hi,
Just interested in learning what others do when faced with an old lighting installation where there is no earth and you’re installing a metal class 1 light fitting.
I would assume you would have to run an earth in?
Also, with class 2 fittings, is it the box where the cables are terminated that makes it double insulated?
Cheers.
 
The simple answer is don't install a class 1 light fitting on such a circuit.
Advise the customer of the problem and explain why it needs to be rewired.

If a light needs to be fitted as replacement for a broken one or as part of an urgent/emergency repair then an alternative class 2 fitting would be appropriate to mitigate the danger.
 
Double insulated light fittings are only as good as the little plastic box that comes with them.

If they’re not installed properly, or if a cowboy just bins the little box, the double insulation is out the window and now potentially dangerous.


Stick to all plastic if rewiring is not on the cards.
And never, ever fit a metal switch without a cpc.


Some people also make the mistake of seeing only 2 cores and think its twin cable without an earth, where it could be singles in steel conduit, which may be used as the cpc if continuous back to board.
 
It has been a problem for years, I as others have said have fitted class II, and in the case of my mothers kitchen paid way over the odds for a class II 2D lamps, and when it arrived I am sure it was the same lamp sold as a class I but with a sticker on it.

I remember in that kitchen the first fluorescent fitted had a BA22d plug on it and replaced the original bulb, we are talking 1960's, but when I came to find a class II fluorescent except for the 2D and compact fluorescents I drew a blank, even the all plastic weather proof were not classed and class II.

Even before 1966 the rules said "Lighting fittings using filament lamps installed in a room having a non-conducting floor, mounted at such a height that they cannot readily be touched and are out of reach of earthed metal" could be used without an earth. quote from 13th edition, so we were never allowed to use fluorescent or leave out earth to wall lights, and clearly never permitted with LED as not invented back then.

Today it is rarely a problem, as the rubber cable used back then has long since passed its use by date, and mineral insulated has an earth. The main problem today is where extra low voltage has been converted to low voltage using existing cables. The problem with this is if you sign a minor works certificate you could well be libel for the cost to correct it. As it has never been permitted. This is very different to hiding behind the fact each edition of the wiring regulations state the date after which designs must comply.

One may get away with class II where you are the in house electrician, but anywhere else one is opening up a situation which could be very costly. If one looks at motor vehicles and note how old vehicles can be and still get a recall, one starts to realise how far back one can go with claims.

I suppose I could have claimed for the rewire of my parents wall lamps fitted in 1950's if the builder was still trading? So simply not worth the risk installing lamps which have never complied.
 
As others have said best stick to plastic/class 2 fittings.
Some fittings have a secondary insulated box 'built in', others are loose which should be retained but if its a 'loop in loop out' system can be problematic to achieve double insulation, but not insurmountable.
 

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