Now I know who is making money from Green Deal....

[Berneray]

Bit the bullet and decided to get Domestic Energy and Green Deal Assessor qualified.

Today was the first day of the course. 15 guys being trained at approx £1500 each equals £22500 for the training company for a four day course....

Course seems fairly straight forward.....Doing an EPC looks like a mix of comon sense and accurate measuring.....

And if nothing else I can do our own EPC's saving £75 a go.

However I am now getting a handle on where the angle will be. And why some of the bigger PV solar companies and window companies are sending their sales force on these courses...

The selling part will have to come at the Green Deal Assessement stage.....It will be the assessors that will be in the position to recommend and explain the measures to be carried out...as they are the ones in front of the customer....Not the Provider or the Installer.....

And if the Assessor....Provider......and Installer.....are all employed by the same company.....whether obviously or via sister companies...then happy days for the direct sales type companies....

I can just hear the sales pitches being sharpened as I type....."No Mr & Mrs Customer....this will not cost you a single penny. Not one." .........and if the measures do not meet the Golden Rule......and the customer needs to contribute something towards the cost....then these companies will have in house finance to make up the difference....

Of course I could be completely wrong!

 

[lee foster]

I have a mate who has done the same course , he used to sell mortgages before the recession.
He is working for a local Electrical Contractor and has been told to sell PV first.
Says all I need to know about the Green Deal.

 

[Berneray]

Neither PV Solar or Windows will ever make the Golden Rule......

 

[lee foster]

They will if the Assesors are also the Salesmen.

 

[Johnuk]

mmm how to make money they setup courses like elses ones i think £1500 for a course like this lol

 

[sparkless]

this has been my point on many a thread.

I have been to a lot of the "Green Deal" launch seminars available.

the Conservatives are known for this strategy of Big companies running everything.

we as small installers will not get a look in compared to those offering the "Green Deal"

you may be a qualified assessor at the end of this course but the customer will go direct to the Green Deal finance company and the installers and assessors will have to be in there pocket.

 

[sparkless]

the EPC assessor will go the same direction as the HIPs did.(which is exactly the same but another name/course/expense)

 

[Eco Deal]

just to point out a green deal assessor has to remain impartial if they work on commission they must tell the customer.

also a green deal adviser can NOT make a product meet the golden rule !

they first must do an EPC (if it does not excess) then an occupancy report

from this info a green deal report is produced which should be given to the customers ,

Then the customer has a choice of taking the report to any provider or installer of course some companys will do it all inhouse

but the KEY BUZZWORD all the DECC and training companys are using is IMPARTIAL GREEN DEAL ADVICE.

if you need any advice installer or customers plenty of info on our site .

 

[sparkless]

just to point out a green deal assessor has to remain impartial if they work on commission they must tell the customer.

also a green deal adviser can NOT make a product meet the golden rule !

they first must do an EPC (if it does not excess) then an occupancy report

from this info a green deal report is produced which should be given to the customers ,

Then the customer has a choice of taking the report to any provider or installer of course some companys will do it all inhouse

but the KEY BUZZWORD all the DECC and training companys are using is IMPARTIAL GREEN DEAL ADVICE.

if you need any advice installer or customers plenty of info on our site .

you don't live in the real world

 

[sparkless]

the BIG companies will advertise the Green Deal (British Gas or Plumbcentre etc)

they will offer in-house assessment, installation and finance.

there will be small print saying you can get this independently, but it will be like a trip to sainsburys when you know the fresh loaf is better at the farmers market, you think about it but its more convenient to get it all at once.

our company cannot offer Nectar points or advertise on ITV every 20 mins, we've been cut out of the equation.

the same thing happened with the HIPs, this is nothing new

 

[sparkless]

your asking your customer to:

a) listen to the British Gas advert
b) ignore British Gas and find a small local assessor
c) ignore the local assessors contacts and find a local installer
d) return to British Gas for the finance because there is no option for small business to finance Green Deal


as I have said on many a thread, the Green Deal cannot work for small business (but I was just called negative)

 

[sedgy34]

Great thread!!!
however I've spoken with mep a few times and realised you need to do whatever it takes to be a provider this way you can do what the big boys are doing

 

[sparkless]

Great thread!!!
however I've spoken with mep a few times and realised you need to do whatever it takes to be a provider this way you can do what the big boys are doing

I'm sorry to upset you, but, you will waste your money getting ready for the green deal.
the only people to make money out of this scheme will be the governing bodies and the training schools.


there is also massive flaws in the scheme.


The system on the customers house will not be owned by the customer until the loan is repaid. in otherwords the Green Deal Provider will own the system.
we are (as I'm sure you are) MCS accredited and they specify loads of regulations regarding the contract between the installer and the customer.
if the contract is between the installer and the Green Deal Provider, then the homeowner is not entitled to the Feed in Tariff.


this is a massive government sponsored Rent-A-Roof scheme that only government backed companies can take part in

 

[sedgy34]

Sorry to correct you but the feeds tariff is in the green deal but not allowed in the golden rule for Calcs
this info is direct from a person who sits in with the decc

 

[sparkless]

Sorry to correct you but the feeds tariff is in the green deal but not allowed in the golden rule for Calcs
this info is direct from a person who sits in with the decc

incorrect.

this is the main sticking point and one of the reasons why the Domestic Green Deal will not be ready until March, when it should have been August then October.

without the FiT the loan would never be repaid.

I have also sat in with the decc many a time last year, and frequently visited Parliament with the Micropwer Council to try and work out what was available and when.


I know I am being negative towards the Green Deal, but would love to be proved wrong and told I have it wrong.
My company has been installing since 2009 and we went MCS before the FiT launched in April 2010, but, in March our membership will need renewing and I'm thinking of leaving solar as I cant see any future with Green Deal

 

[sedgy34]

Well it's a no brainer for you and your company, shame your giving up solar and the Mcs but onwards and upwards eh

 

[Gavin A]

I know I am being negative towards the Green Deal, but would love to be proved wrong and told I have it wrong.
My company has been installing since 2009 and we went MCS before the FiT launched in April 2010, but, in March our membership will need renewing and I'm thinking of leaving solar as I cant see any future with Green Deal

I reckon that'd be a mistake, not because of green deal, but because green deal is largely irrelevant to the solar market, and the solar market should recover this year now things have settled down and half the band wagon jumpers have left the scene.

 

[puddy]

this is a massive government sponsored Rent-A-Roof scheme that only government backed companies can take part in

What's a rent-A-Roof scheme?

 

[sparkless]

What's a rent-A-Roof scheme?

the Rent-a-Roof is what I think ruined the Feed-in-Tariff scheme.

where company's would offer to fit solar for free with them paying for the install and claiming the FiT and you getting free electric

 

[puddy]

the Rent-a-Roof is what I think ruined the Feed-in-Tariff scheme

Why say that it was the Tory party that changed the rules?

The reason I asked about the rent-a-roof scheme was because I don’t know how it got its name

My contract state’s

Particulars to the lease plan excludes (for the avoidance of doubt) the structure walls and roof of the building

So I am not giving up my freehold status and not able to sell my house and the other misinformation given by some forum members

All HomeSun are doing is using airspace 2”inchs above my roof, I don’t mind I didn’t want to use it anyway.

I live in a closed military airspace and I could not write down the registration of a Typhoon or Tornados fighter jets there gone in a flash so I cannot bill the RAF for using my airspace!!!

Seems since we had the panels installed they use them as a visual markers because we are getting more jets flying right over us now than before

 

[sparkless]

Why say that it was the Tory party that changed the rules?

The Feed-In-Tariff was Labours idea when Ed Milliband was running the DECC. after they lost the election the FiT was quickly/illegally scrapped and the Green Deal is due to replace it.

They have now banned any more than 2 installs being in one name. putting an end to your scheme of installation.

So why have they done that?

 

[puddy]

The Feed-In-Tariff was Labours idea when Ed Milliband was running the DECC. after they lost the election the FiT was quickly/illegally scrapped and the Green Deal is due to replace it.

They have now banned any more than 2 installs being in one name. putting an end to your scheme of installation.

So why have they done that?

Save money or so they say?

A lot of the things I could claim on for DLA have been taken away like help with making my home more energy efficient on the Warmfront scheme.

The reason FiT was reduced is because the energy companies were footing the bill. But Dave protected them from further cost on the understand that they would not be challenged on price increases in Gas and Electric for the next 5 years so they could claw the money back

 

[puddy]

They have now banned any more than 2 installs being in one name.

I am not sure what you mean/telling me

 

[Eco Deal]

Guys the FITS is claimable after the Green Deal solar as been installed.

tell me this if you finance a solar system form a bank loan etc does the bank claim the fits until you pay it. NO!

I have documents form DECC emailed to me that state the FITS or RHI can be claimed. I can email you the docs sparkless.

Microgen systems can be included in Green Deal pacakges as well as receiving FIT or RHI payments, but the FIT or RHI income will not be taken into account
when calculating the Green Deal savings.

 

[Gavin A]

The Feed-In-Tariff was Labours idea when Ed Milliband was running the DECC. after they lost the election the FiT was quickly/illegally scrapped and the Green Deal is due to replace it.

They have now banned any more than 2 installs being in one name. putting an end to your scheme of installation.

So why have they done that?

have you been on the sauce?

the FIT hasn't been scrapped, and the Green Deal has nothing to do with FIT, if anything it's replacing the previous insulation scheme whereby the electricity companies directly subsidised cavity wall and loft insulation measures.

there's also no limit on the number of FIT installs anyone can own, though anyone owning 25 or more get's 10% lower FIT payments.

 

[Eco Deal]

GD measures BLUE are alos on commercial


Air source heat pumps
Lighting systems, fittings and controls (including rooflights, lamps and luminaires)
Biomass boilers Loft or rafter insulation (including loft hatch insulation)
Biomass room heaters (including with radiators)
Mechanical ventilation with heat recovery
Cavity wall insulation Micro combined heat and power
Cavity wall insulation (hard-to-treat) Micro wind generation
Chillers
Oil-fired condensing boilers
Cylinder thermostats Photovoltaics
Draught proofing Pipe-work insulation
Duct insulation
Radiant heating
External wall insulation systems Replacement glazing
Fan-assisted replacement storage heaters Roof insulation
Flue gas heat recovery devices Room in roof insulation
Gas-fired condensing boilers
Sealing improvements (including duct sealing)
Ground source heat pumps Secondary glazing
Heating controls (for wet central heating system and warm air system)
Solar blinds, shutters and shading devices
Heating ventilation and air-conditioning controls (including zoning controls)
Solar water heating
High performance external doors
Transpired solar collectors
Hot water controls (including timers and temperature control) Under-floor heating
Hot water cylinder insulation Under-floor insulation
Hot water showers (efficient)
Variable speed drives for fans and pumps
Hot water systems (efficient) Warm-air units
Hot water taps (efficient)
Waste water heat recovery devices attached to showers
Internal wall insulation (of external walls) systems Water source heat pumps

 

[Eco Deal]

Green Deal Measures

Air source heat pumps
Lighting systems, fittings and controls (including rooflights, lamps and luminaires)
Biomass boilers Loft or rafter insulation (including loft hatch insulation)
Biomass room heaters (including with radiators)
Mechanical ventilation with heat recovery
Cavity wall insulation Micro combined heat and power
Cavity wall insulation (hard-to-treat) Micro wind generation
Chillers
Oil-fired condensing boilers
Cylinder thermostats Photovoltaics
Draught proofing Pipe-work insulation
Duct insulation
Radiant heating
External wall insulation systems Replacement glazing
Fan-assisted replacement storage heaters Roof insulation
Flue gas heat recovery devices Room in roof insulation
Gas-fired condensing boilers
Sealing improvements (including duct sealing)
Ground source heat pumps Secondary glazing
Heating controls (for wet central heating system and warm air system)
Solar blinds, shutters and shading devices
Heating ventilation and air-conditioning controls (including zoning controls)
Solar water heating
High performance external doors
Transpired solar collectors
Hot water controls (including timers and temperature control) Under-floor heating
Hot water cylinder insulation Under-floor insulation
Hot water showers (efficient)
Variable speed drives for fans and pumps
Hot water systems (efficient) Warm-air units
Hot water taps (efficient)
Waste water heat recovery devices attached to showers
Internal wall insulation (of external walls) systems Water source heat pumps

 

[Worcester]

Whatver we 'think', the government has invested too much in the Green Deal.

It may take a few years before the wrinkles are worked out, however it is their plan to reduce energy consumption. New build is gettting tighter and they want to bring up the old housing stock.

The biggest owers of the housing stock are the Social Housing Groups so they had to come up with a scheme that they could afford and the big insulation / installation compnaies could deliver.

This scheme allows refurbishment of the housing stock at the tenants cost.

The rest of the process is just a mechanism to introduce some checks so that people aren;t completely ripped off. It is not system designed for small businesses / individual installers.

Havig said that there will be opportunities, and the advertising campaigns of the the big boys will raise awareness of what people can do to their homes and so being local you can offer a Green Deal type package of your own, without all the red tape at a lower cost.

We are building up key relationships, and we will pick up work from the awareness of it, and we will get the various accreditations, our goal though will be to steer our customers towards a range of much more flexible privately financed solutions.

The Green Deal is here to stay and it will work for a number of large companies, in the same way as the existing /closing CERT scheme was, - If you can point to any smaller businesses that made a success out of CERT, then you'll need to adopt their same approach to make a success out of the Green Deal.

We should be looking at HOW we can benefit from it because it isn't going away, I'm not convinced that any of the 'smaller' businesses have found the golden key YET.

 

[sparkless]

have you been on the sauce?

the FIT hasn't been scrapped, and the Green Deal has nothing to do with FIT, if anything it's replacing the previous insulation scheme whereby the electricity companies directly subsidised cavity wall and loft insulation measures.

there's also no limit on the number of FIT installs anyone can own, though anyone owning 25 or more get's 10% lower FIT payments.

The Fit Scheme has been clearly reduced considerably and I'm sorry but the Green Deal is the new Government incentive scheme, which replaces the previous FiT incentive scheme

 

[sparkless]

Whatver we 'think', the government has invested too much in the Green Deal.

It may take a few years before the wrinkles are worked out, however it is their plan to reduce energy consumption. New build is gettting tighter and they want to bring up the old housing stock.

The biggest owers of the housing stock are the Social Housing Groups so they had to come up with a scheme that they could afford and the big insulation / installation compnaies could deliver.

This scheme allows refurbishment of the housing stock at the tenants cost.

The rest of the process is just a mechanism to introduce some checks so that people aren;t completely ripped off. It is not system designed for small businesses / individual installers.

Havig said that there will be opportunities, and the advertising campaigns of the the big boys will raise awareness of what people can do to their homes and so being local you can offer a Green Deal type package of your own, without all the red tape at a lower cost.

We are building up key relationships, and we will pick up work from the awareness of it, and we will get the various accreditations, our goal though will be to steer our customers towards a range of much more flexible privately financed solutions.

The Green Deal is here to stay and it will work for a number of large companies, in the same way as the existing /closing CERT scheme was, - If you can point to any smaller businesses that made a success out of CERT, then you'll need to adopt their same approach to make a success out of the Green Deal.

We should be looking at HOW we can benefit from it because it isn't going away, I'm not convinced that any of the 'smaller' businesses have found the golden key YET.

When the Green Deal was first announced, I thought it was a great idea. its only after the launch that I have got so let down by their proposals.

As you say "It may take a few years before the wrinkles are worked out" and in the mean time, we are meant to stay quiet and pay our MCS and REAl memberships and as this post was started by someone spending more money on training chasing an ever moving goalpost

 

[Ian-LS]

The Fit Scheme has been clearly reduced considerably and I'm sorry but the Green Deal is the new Government incentive scheme, which replaces the previous FiT incentive scheme

Yes the FIT has been reduced that is true but the FIT scheme supports renewable energy technologies such as Solar PV, wind and hydro. The green deal DOES NOT replace the FIT scheme and is mainly in place to invest in energy efficiency measures such of loft insulation, cavity wall insulation, new boilers etc NOT Renewable Energy.

The Green Deal may well be the the new Government incentive scheme but it is not replacing the FIT scheme.

 

[sparkless]

Yes the FIT has been reduced that is true but the FIT scheme supports renewable energy technologies such as Solar PV, wind and hydro. The green deal DOES NOT replace the FIT scheme and is mainly in place to invest in energy efficiency measures such of loft insulation, cavity wall insulation, new boilers etc NOT Renewable Energy.

The Green Deal may well be the the new Government incentive scheme but it is not replacing the FIT scheme.

I completely agree, The Green Deal is not replacing the FiT, What I meant was it replaces the main incentive.

 

[Ian-LS]

But the Feed in Tariff is the main incentive is still will be regardless of the Green Deal. So I'm not sure what you are getting at?

 

[sparkless]

But the Feed in Tariff is the main incentive is still will be regardless of the Green Deal. So I'm not sure what you are getting at?

it is the main incentive now because we are between schemes.

the Green Deal should have launched in August.
we are in a no-mans land of incentive for solar.

I think as a customer looking at a 20 year investment, they would be better waiting 12months and seeing what happens, because the rate of FiT will not drop a lot more, but the Green Deal may produce what is promised if they can sort out this "Golden Rule"



The Green Deal with Solar PV has not launched yet too the domestic market.
When it does, it will be the Governments main incentive.

Ask any MP or anyone at the DECC two years ago why we should get solar and they would have barked on about the FiT incentive.

Ask any of them now and "Green Deal" is the flag they are waving.

No-one says it doesn't involve other "energy efficiency measures", but it is the new incentive for renewables

 

[Worcester]

Solar is a better investment today than it was in November 2011.
It costs less to install, the payback time is similar so you have cash left in the bank, and with electricity prices increasing you've invested less to get the same.

The difference is they type of customer, pre December 2011 / March 2012 it was people looking for a good Investment with 'short term' money being the driver, now the customers are people that understand the value in investeing in securing the cost of their energy for the next 20 - 25 years.

It's a different market. It's not 'dead', the market will NEVER be like is was in 2011 again, it's a different market with different reasons for investing. - Try reading 'Crossing the Chasm' by Geoffrey A Moore. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...=1841120634&linkCode=as2&tag=wwwgjbenterpr-21

 

[TedM]

The FiT is an 'incentive' that pays people back for a capital investment they make to generate electricity from renewables.

The Green Deal is a finance scheme that attempts to remove the capital cost barrier for anyone wanting to reduce their energy bills where the householder (or tenant) pays back a loan for energy reduction via their electricity bill. As such it can only be seen as an 'incentive' by people who cannot access similar (or better) finance from other sources. It will simplify paperwork to apply for a loan for quite specific home improvement services (as MEP has listed) so, from that point of view, may incentivise people to have work done on their property that they otherwise wouldn't be able or willing to do.

The two are really quite separate, even with DECC's attempts to get them to work together, and have quite separate meanings of 'incentive' so don't confuse them.

 

[sparkless]

The FiT is an 'incentive' that pays people back for a capital investment they make to generate electricity from renewables.

The Green Deal is a finance scheme that attempts to remove the capital cost barrier for anyone wanting to reduce their energy bills where the householder (or tenant) pays back a loan for energy reduction via their electricity bill. As such it can only be seen as an 'incentive' by people who cannot access similar (or better) finance from other sources. It will simplify paperwork to apply for a loan for quite specific home improvement services (as MEP has listed) so, from that point of view, may incentivise people to have work done on their property that they otherwise wouldn't be able or willing to do.

The two are really quite separate, even with DECC's attempts to get them to work together, and have quite separate meanings of 'incentive' so don't confuse them.

who confused them?
did I miss a post?

 

[Energetic]

No wonder the public has no idea whats going on if installers believe the FiT has been scrapped and replaced by the green deal.

The Feed In Tariff is still on and still generous, we just signed up a customer today who we quoted in late 2011 who declined at the time, he has a better range of panels to choose from, almost half the install price, a very similar payback time & ROI and the same amount of energy to use. He's chuffed to bits...

 

[sparkless]

No wonder the public has no idea whats going on if installers believe the FiT has been scrapped and replaced by the green deal.

The Feed In Tariff is still on and still generous, we just signed up a customer today who we quoted in late 2011 who declined at the time, he has a better range of panels to choose from, almost half the install price, a very similar payback time & ROI and the same amount of energy to use. He's chuffed to bits...

the FiT incentive was dramatically slashed (illegally) a year ago to make way for the Green Deal, which hasn't launched yet.

We may disagree on terminology, but the last governments incentive for renewable was the FiT and this governments is the Green Deal.

their reason for such drastic action last year was because both schemes cannot run together.

they haven't replaced one another yet because green deal is not active in the domestic field yet.


What will your customer that you signed up today say in two months when the Green Deal launches and he has spent his money now.
No wonder the public has no faith in the industry when all your interested in is anther sale, instead of advising the customer that this is a 20 year investment and it wouldn't harm to just wait 3 months and see what the government are suggesting.

But that wouldn't get you commission would it

 

[Earthstore]

Hmmm, I feel someone is getting a little confused here.
The Green deal does not replace the FIT, simple.
Yes the FIT has been reduced, dramatically and as proven illegally, but there is still a FIT system.

The Green deal is just a way of financing energy saving measures for those that can not fund it by normal means, and this includes PV.
At present, in my opinion (for what it is worth) there are better ways to fund your PV system, at much favorable rates, but the Green deal may work for some...

I hope this helps.

 

[TMGL]

What will your customer that you signed up today say in two months when the Green Deal launches and he has spent his money now.

If he/she's got any sense he/she will say...'As I had the money, I'm glad I paid upfront two months ago and so avoided paying commercial rates of interest on a PV loan (aka Green Deal)'.

Even if PV met the Golden Rule, you'd still be better of paying for it upfront rather than borrowing money.

 

[Gavin A]

What will your customer that you signed up today say in two months when the Green Deal launches and he has spent his money now.
No wonder the public has no faith in the industry when all your interested in is anther sale, instead of advising the customer that this is a 20 year investment and it wouldn't harm to just wait 3 months and see what the government are suggesting.

what are you banging on about?

Green Deal will not fund solar PV installations (though it may part fund them), but even if it does then that won't affect 99% of our customers who have the money already, want to invest the money they have, and certainly wouldn't consider paying 7-8% interest on a green deal loan to pay for it instead of using their own money.

This in no way precludes them from using green deal finances if they want to for other energy saving measures when green deal starts, though I doubt many will tbh as most already have most of the measures done already, and have their own funds if they want to do any other work.

 

[sparkless]

I'm sorry guys we really disagree on this.

the Green Deal incentive, when launched for solar, will be replacing the previous incentive, which, although still exists, was called the Feed-in-Tariff. which in turn replaced the previous incentive called ROCs.

the trouble you've got is when you join the party late, you don't know the whole story.

Draft one of the Green Deal was less of a loan and more of a grant system that would be available to all households across the country to be spent on renewable's and energy efficiency for each household.

the loan would be secured on the household and be repaid on change of ownership or as is with savings produced.

This was a tried and tested method in Birmingham and was used to Double Glaze a lot of properties by the City Council.

If that system would work, we could potentially fit renewables to every house in Britain in one generation, assuming every household changes hands every generation or less.

when this scheme was adapted for Solar, obviously the costs were much greater and so the funding was harder to achieve.
private companies were brought in to finance and as they are business then added 6-7% return on loans.

this is the system we are at now.
anyone with half a brain can see this is a rubbish system for the solar industry and so the August launch was put back until October until the funding is resolved, this still isn't resolved and is now delayed until we are told March.

The main complaint with the FiT was it only rewarded the wealthy and was only available to people who had disposable money in the bank, they in turn were rewarded by raising everyone elses fuel bill to pay for their FiTs.

(so in reducing FiT would not have changed anything)
Now my point is that if they do achieve their original goal of financing all domestic installations until change of ownership, so not costing the customer a penny, isn't your customer going to be really ****ed off with you.






don't pretend I don't know what I'm on about to justify your money grabbing

 

[Eco Deal]

Sparkless if you dont know the diff between Green deal and FITS what hope do your customers have of understanding it

FITS = Payments for electricity

Green deal = Finance tied to the electric meter to pay for an installation of an energy saving product

two diffrent thing which can work together .


if you pay cash , get a loan or use the green deal for PV you still get 100% of the FITS and EXPORT

its easy to understand !

 

[Somecamel]

I'm sorry guys we really disagree on this.

the Green Deal incentive, when launched for solar, will be replacing the previous incentive, which, although still exists, was called the Feed-in-Tariff. which in turn replaced the previous incentive called ROCs.

Who's Authority do you have this under? I do see what your saying and i agree that the Government 'could' phase out fits and replace with some kind of green deal finance instead, but this hasn't happened yet.

 

[Worcester]

ROC's has definitely NOT been replaced in toto by FIT's, and can still be used for Solar PV

ROC's applies to large(r) scale installations
FIT's to smaller

ROC and FIT's are about GENERATION
Green Deal is about Energy SAVING

 

[sparkless]

i think your misunderstanding me and missing the point.

incentives is the key word

FiTs was launched by Ed Miliband for Labour.

the Lib Dem / Conservatives came in

Drastically cut Labours FiT idea and proposed the Green Deal,

which was Cgris Huhnes idea and was sounding like a good idea until he was sacked for passing on speeding tickets.


I know the FiTs are still there.
and I understand that Green Deal (as it stands) is not a financial incentive for Solar.

But the whole story is different, you've only got half of it.

What if Chris Huhnes idea of fitting solar to every household for free comes to light in March?

 

[sparkless]

ROC's has definitely NOT been replaced in toto by FIT's, and can still be used for Solar PV

ROC's applies to large(r) scale installations
FIT's to smaller

ROC and FIT's are about GENERATION
Green Deal is about Energy SAVING

ROCs were available on domestic before FiT.


again I'm not disputing that FiTs are generation and Green Deal is loan based.

they're different incentives, but still Government incentives

 

[Somecamel]

i think your misunderstanding me and missing the point.

incentives is the key word

FiTs was launched by Ed Miliband for Labour.

the Lib Dem / Conservatives came in

Drastically cut Labours FiT idea and proposed the Green Deal,

which was Cgris Huhnes idea and was sounding like a good idea until he was sacked for passing on speeding tickets.


I know the FiTs are still there.
and I understand that Green Deal (as it stands) is not a financial incentive for Solar.

But the whole story is different, you've only got half of it.

What if Chris Huhnes idea of fitting solar to every household for free comes to light in March?

You're a revolutionary

 

[sparkless]

Who's Authority do you have this under? I do see what your saying and i agree that the Government 'could' phase out fits and replace with some kind of green deal finance instead, but this hasn't happened yet.

the problem FiTs has, was it was rewarding the wealthy by taxing the poor.

reducing FiT payments doesn't cure any of this, it just reduces the tax.

What Chris Huhnes idea was to turn the whole thing upside down.
don't reward the wealthy, make solar available to everyone and make the money go on grants instead of FiT payments.

they embraced all renewables and it has really worked for the other technologies and they have ran away with it.
but the original idea had solar at the centre of the Green Deal and no-one here thinks it has anything to do with us