Discuss Now I know who is making money from Green Deal.... in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

What will your customer that you signed up today say in two months when the Green Deal launches and he has spent his money now.

If he/she's got any sense he/she will say...'As I had the money, I'm glad I paid upfront two months ago and so avoided paying commercial rates of interest on a PV loan (aka Green Deal)'.

Even if PV met the Golden Rule, you'd still be better of paying for it upfront rather than borrowing money.
 
What will your customer that you signed up today say in two months when the Green Deal launches and he has spent his money now.
No wonder the public has no faith in the industry when all your interested in is anther sale, instead of advising the customer that this is a 20 year investment and it wouldn't harm to just wait 3 months and see what the government are suggesting.

what are you banging on about?

Green Deal will not fund solar PV installations (though it may part fund them), but even if it does then that won't affect 99% of our customers who have the money already, want to invest the money they have, and certainly wouldn't consider paying 7-8% interest on a green deal loan to pay for it instead of using their own money.

This in no way precludes them from using green deal finances if they want to for other energy saving measures when green deal starts, though I doubt many will tbh as most already have most of the measures done already, and have their own funds if they want to do any other work.
 
I'm sorry guys we really disagree on this.

the Green Deal incentive, when launched for solar, will be replacing the previous incentive, which, although still exists, was called the Feed-in-Tariff. which in turn replaced the previous incentive called ROCs.

the trouble you've got is when you join the party late, you don't know the whole story.

Draft one of the Green Deal was less of a loan and more of a grant system that would be available to all households across the country to be spent on renewable's and energy efficiency for each household.

the loan would be secured on the household and be repaid on change of ownership or as is with savings produced.

This was a tried and tested method in Birmingham and was used to Double Glaze a lot of properties by the City Council.

If that system would work, we could potentially fit renewables to every house in Britain in one generation, assuming every household changes hands every generation or less.

when this scheme was adapted for Solar, obviously the costs were much greater and so the funding was harder to achieve.
private companies were brought in to finance and as they are business then added 6-7% return on loans.

this is the system we are at now.
anyone with half a brain can see this is a rubbish system for the solar industry and so the August launch was put back until October until the funding is resolved, this still isn't resolved and is now delayed until we are told March.

The main complaint with the FiT was it only rewarded the wealthy and was only available to people who had disposable money in the bank, they in turn were rewarded by raising everyone elses fuel bill to pay for their FiTs.

(so in reducing FiT would not have changed anything)
Now my point is that if they do achieve their original goal of financing all domestic installations until change of ownership, so not costing the customer a penny, isn't your customer going to be really ****ed off with you.






don't pretend I don't know what I'm on about to justify your money grabbing
 
Sparkless if you dont know the diff between Green deal and FITS what hope do your customers have of understanding it

FITS = Payments for electricity

Green deal = Finance tied to the electric meter to pay for an installation of an energy saving product

two diffrent thing which can work together .


if you pay cash , get a loan or use the green deal for PV you still get 100% of the FITS and EXPORT

its easy to understand !
 
I'm sorry guys we really disagree on this.

the Green Deal incentive, when launched for solar, will be replacing the previous incentive, which, although still exists, was called the Feed-in-Tariff. which in turn replaced the previous incentive called ROCs.


Who's Authority do you have this under? I do see what your saying and i agree that the Government 'could' phase out fits and replace with some kind of green deal finance instead, but this hasn't happened yet.
 
ROC's has definitely NOT been replaced in toto by FIT's, and can still be used for Solar PV

ROC's applies to large(r) scale installations
FIT's to smaller

ROC and FIT's are about GENERATION
Green Deal is about Energy SAVING
 
i think your misunderstanding me and missing the point.

incentives is the key word

FiTs was launched by Ed Miliband for Labour.

the Lib Dem / Conservatives came in

Drastically cut Labours FiT idea and proposed the Green Deal,

which was Cgris Huhnes idea and was sounding like a good idea until he was sacked for passing on speeding tickets.


I know the FiTs are still there.
and I understand that Green Deal (as it stands) is not a financial incentive for Solar.

But the whole story is different, you've only got half of it.

What if Chris Huhnes idea of fitting solar to every household for free comes to light in March?
 
ROC's has definitely NOT been replaced in toto by FIT's, and can still be used for Solar PV

ROC's applies to large(r) scale installations
FIT's to smaller

ROC and FIT's are about GENERATION
Green Deal is about Energy SAVING


ROCs were available on domestic before FiT.


again I'm not disputing that FiTs are generation and Green Deal is loan based.

they're different incentives, but still Government incentives
 
i think your misunderstanding me and missing the point.

incentives is the key word

FiTs was launched by Ed Miliband for Labour.

the Lib Dem / Conservatives came in

Drastically cut Labours FiT idea and proposed the Green Deal,

which was Cgris Huhnes idea and was sounding like a good idea until he was sacked for passing on speeding tickets.


I know the FiTs are still there.
and I understand that Green Deal (as it stands) is not a financial incentive for Solar.

But the whole story is different, you've only got half of it.

What if Chris Huhnes idea of fitting solar to every household for free comes to light in March?

You're a revolutionary:)
 
Who's Authority do you have this under? I do see what your saying and i agree that the Government 'could' phase out fits and replace with some kind of green deal finance instead, but this hasn't happened yet.

the problem FiTs has, was it was rewarding the wealthy by taxing the poor.

reducing FiT payments doesn't cure any of this, it just reduces the tax.

What Chris Huhnes idea was to turn the whole thing upside down.
don't reward the wealthy, make solar available to everyone and make the money go on grants instead of FiT payments.

they embraced all renewables and it has really worked for the other technologies and they have ran away with it.
but the original idea had solar at the centre of the Green Deal and no-one here thinks it has anything to do with us
 
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What if Chris Huhnes idea of fitting solar to every household for free comes to light in March?
what if pigs sprouted wings and flew south for winter?

I prefer to focus on the reality of the situation on the ground, we've got enough trouble dealing with that without dealing with random what ifs.


ps what you're suggesting would cost around £125 billion - what exactly is it about this coalitions policies that makes you think the treasury is about to sanction that level of spending on solar PV?
 
what if pigs sprouted wings and flew south for winter?

I prefer to focus on the reality of the situation on the ground, we've got enough trouble dealing with that without dealing with random what ifs.


ps what you're suggesting would cost around £125 billion - what exactly is it about this coalitions policies that makes you think the treasury is about to sanction that level of spending on solar PV?


non of this is fictitious, this is where we are with Green Deal and why it hasn't gone live yet.

but to say Green Deal isn't involved in solar is just suggesting that people on here don't know what they're on about.
 
non of this is fictitious, this is where we are with Green Deal and why it hasn't gone live yet.

but to say Green Deal isn't involved in solar is just suggesting that people on here don't know what they're on about.
I won't exclude the possibility entirely that DECC are trying to wedge PV into green deal somehow given that the place appears to be largely muppets* led by donkeys* taking advice from expensive consultant donkeys*, but I still say that 99% of our customers would be better off not touching it with a bargepole even if it did happen.


*aka economists.
 
ok I'll spell it out to you.


replace the word "incentive" with the words "why a customer would consider getting solar PV on the roof of their house"

originally "why a customer would consider getting solar PV on the roof of their house" is because they could generate their own electricity.

then in April 2010 the FiT was introduced and was the reason "why a customer would consider getting solar PV on the roof of their house"

(Just because the FiT was introduced it didn't mean the original reason was a bad idea nor was it going to stop them generating your own power)

in October 2011 it was announced the Green Deal was going to be "why a customer would consider getting solar PV on the roof of their house" this didn't mean you would stop generating your own power nor did it mean the FiT would stop, but it would be the reason "why a customer would consider getting solar PV on the roof of their house"

the FiT was the previous Governments reason "why a customer would consider getting solar PV on the roof of their house"
the Green Deal is this Governments reason "why a customer would consider getting solar PV on the roof of their house"

I'm not defending the Green Deal, I'm a long way from that, I'm just saying how it was involved with Solar.

when we were talking to customers Pre April 2010, all some wanted was Solar PV and didn't care about the upcoming FiT system, they were just interested in generating their own power, as before it launched the systems were £18k-£22k for a 4kW and the FiT rate was forecast at 20p, when it launched Ed Milliband surprised us all with the high FiT and the gold rush began.

until it launches in March I don't think anyone should be installing. I understand it is a long way from where it was originally, but, until it launches we just don't know what they are going to do.

Since the surprise announcement on 30th October 2011 no-one can guarantee what is going to be released in March, we can all speculate but no-one knows.

why not be transparent with your customers and just wait three months
 
why not be transparent with your customers and just wait three months

I think it would be terrible advice. If the customer has the money to install the panels then they are far better off paying for it themselves than by using the Green Deal.

If they don't have the money then it is a moot point anyway.
 
" why not be transparent with your customers and just wait three months "

Wait three months for what? The industry to go belly up?

Can I point out as others have, green deal will not fully finance Solar PV as it does not meet the golden rule with the energy savings alone. The Green Deal will only finance part of the Solar PV and the rest will have to be funded by the customer.

By the way, the pint of the FIT scheme is not to fund the wealthy its to kick start the industry as grants alone obviously aren't enough. It is also about reducing costs of Renewable Energy, 4 kWp PV systems were up to £15,000 at the start of the FIT scheme and can now to bought for £6,000. As costs fall Solar PV will become more affordable for the less well off people.
 

Reply to Now I know who is making money from Green Deal.... in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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