One back for the sparks!

Post new thread

Discuss One back for the sparks! in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Darkwood

Darkwood

Staff member
Mod
Esteemed
Arms
Supporter
Reaction score
10,215
Was in my local DIY super-chain setting up a trade account when a guy comes in and asks a member of staff on the adjoining desk if he can help him with a problem with his light he bought .... he asked if the store had an Electrician to which they said no... Me been a kind soul said maybe i could help.... after a few questions and answers I established the fitting he had bought worked fine and he had mixed his wiring up so I asked if he had a voltage tester YES! i was sold one here yesterday and he showed me a neon... in clear range of the staff i said you should never have been sold that as anything more than a terminal driver it is flawed in the very nature of how it works and in a worse case scenario relying on it could kill you. A senior staff member trying to back his floor staff up ask me how I could justify what I said....

Consider the failure of the neon and your customer here relies on it to see what is live or not!
Its also picks up induction that will give a false positive that something is live when it isn't!

I asked would he be happy to take responsibility for the customers safety because you are selling neon screwdrivers as voltage checkers to non competent customers.... 'We shall review this and how they are sold was his reply'

I also defended said store by telling the customer that we know the fitting works and that's where the stores responsibility ends and i would recommend you get a competent person in to fit this...... 'I built an house so thought a simple light fitting change wasn't beyond me' ...


The house that Jack built comes to mind but i remained tight lipped and expressed I can't help you out unless you want to pay a £60 call out fee as im an Electrical Engineer not a domestic sparks.... surprisingly he declined and walked out lol....

So i peed of the staff, peed off a customer then opened a trade account -- not bad for a Thurs morn!
 
And this is happening every day in thousands of stores. It's no wonder that there are hundreds of electrical fires every year, along with dozens of deaths caused by electricity.
I wish people would understand that simple statement....Electricity KILLS.
 
The Multi Meters they sell look suspect also, can't the powers that be NICEIC etc and the Government ministries responsible do something about this blatant disregard of safety issues, as much as Darkwood's efforts are great and well done mate, some minister somewhere needs to take a look at this
 
The sooner they just blanket ban neon screwdrivers the better. You can pick up a Fluke T90 for under 25 quid, it's a no brainer really.

darkwood said:
.......I can't help you out unless you want to pay a £60 call out fee as im an Electrical Engineer not a domestic sparks
Click to expand...
You're way too cheap.
 
You can write a hundred letters, but it will always be "someone else's Department and responsibility". Unless it's featured on Watchdog, nothing gets done.
 
Just some GS38 leaflets next to the electrical testers and by the how to stuff would at least go some way to show they actually do give a damn about it.
 
You get some crackers, I had one.. Eddys in Wrexham last Thursday.. I walk in and some guy is speaking to a lad who works on the counter wavering a 2 gang switch and showing him a picture asking why there are 2 reds and 2 blacks behind the switch and how should he wire it. The guy behind the counter clearly was clueless.. But was trying to offer advice!! I stepped In and told him straight to call a spark, he told me it was only a switch and he didn't need a electrician and stormed out. Probably dead now, the -----!
 
Guitarist said:
And this is happening every day in thousands of stores. It's no wonder that there are hundreds of electrical fires every year, along with dozens of deaths caused by electricity.
I wish people would understand that simple statement....Electricity KILLS.
Click to expand...

Isn't it reassuring to see Part Pi$$ working so well???
 
maybe if another MP's daughter gets electrocuted, part pee will be seen for the knee-jerk sham that it is and get booted into touch.
 
telectrix said:
maybe if another MP's daughter gets electrocuted, part pee will be seen for the knee-jerk sham that it is and get booted into touch.
Click to expand...

It doesn't need to get booted into touch.

All it needs is to be ignored by every self-respecting spark and it will collapse inwards on itself.

Stop jumping through hoops and just do the job - safely and competently.
 
Spinks said:
Think we should all march up Downing Street armed with a large generator on a low loader all armed with live 3 phase cables, chasing Cameron out of power!
Click to expand...

Works on multiple levels that one LOL

I recently brought a new set of "Electricians VDE Screwdrivers" (Thought ide treat myself)
And was amazed to find out that most of them Including CK, Draper, Stanley etc all came with yep A NEON!

Now WTF would I want one of them with a VDE screwdriver set for???
 
Geordie Spark said:
Stop jumping through hoops and just do the job - safely and competently.
Click to expand...

I think there hangs the problem, there is no way to ensure the person is 'safe' and 'competent' to do the job! Having completed an electrical apprenticeship in 1921 is no guarantee and Part 'P' has tried to address it but not far enough. As much as I hate the thought of it, another death may tip the balance into bringing in a higher level of assessed electrical 'competency' before being let loose alone to practise on the unsuspecting public!
 
Geordie Spark said:
It doesn't need to get booted into touch.

All it needs is to be ignored by every self-respecting spark and it will collapse inwards on itself.

Stop jumping through hoops and just do the job - safely and competently.
Click to expand...


this should have been done when it 1st came out. trouble is bloody apathy. imagine if the froggy surrender monkeys had had part p thrust on them. the ports would have been shut. air traffic control on strike. frog farmers demanding parity with sparks. frog plumbers wanting to crawl out the sewers. arggh, i can't go on. my poor heart won't be able to cope. :13:
 
Tiny Spark said:
Works on multiple levels that one LOL

I recently brought a new set of "Electricians VDE Screwdrivers" (Thought ide treat myself)
And was amazed to find out that most of them Including CK, Draper, Stanley etc all came with yep A NEON!

Now WTF would I want one of them with a VDE screwdriver set for???
Click to expand...

I have a faulty neon screwdriver in the van, to prove to people why they are ****!
 
telectrix said:
this should have been done when it 1st came out. trouble is bloody apathy. imagine if the froggy surrender monkeys had had part p thrust on them. the ports would have been shut. air traffic control on strike. frog farmers demanding parity with sparks. frog plumbers wanting to crawl out the sewers. arggh, i can't go on. my poor heart won't be able to cope. :13:
Click to expand...

I agree ...... COMPLETELY and this stiff upper lip, keep calm and carry on APATHY is why we in this country are in the clarts now.

During my gas fitting days, I had my ACS card which is what proves your training and competence and lists the sort of appliance you have been deemed competent & safe to work on. That cost something like £900 at the time and was valid for 5 years.

After that, I had to pay ( then ) CORGI a couple of hundred £'s more for a bloke to look at my ACS card and put my name on their register. That card was valid for one year after which I would have to pay them again.

They were supposed to come out and inspect a couple of jobs but never did and I was supposed to show the CORGI card to punters if they ever asked to see it. None ever did.

So, after the first year, I quietly forgot all about CORGI - and their fees, but made damned sure my ACS was up to date as I considered THAT card was the one that proved I was competent and safe and all the CORGI one showed was some bloke on a salary a lot bigger than mine had seen my ACS card & made a note of it somewhere.

When the Gas Safe scam arrived on the scene I gave that the Geordie Salute too.

Edit for the benefit of the foreigners among us: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/clarts
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Spinks said:
You get some crackers, I had one.. Eddys in Wrexham last Thursday.. I walk in and some guy is speaking to a lad who works on the counter wavering a 2 gang switch and showing him a picture asking why there are 2 reds and 2 blacks behind the switch and how should he wire it. The guy behind the counter clearly was clueless.. But was trying to offer advice!! I stepped In and told him straight to call a spark, he told me it was only a switch and he didn't need a electrician and stormed out. Probably dead now, the -----!
Click to expand...

Had that in my wholesalers Spinks... I said the same...... Great minds thin alike lol
 
Amazing isnt it really, You would think the guys in the wholesalers would be trained.

Funny one I had a while back I ordered some 16A RCBO 3 phase commando socket outlets, Anyways despite coming in boxes saying just that they had been fitted with 20A RCBO'S.
Being rather puzzled by this I phoned the wholesaler and asked why they had been fitted with 20A RCBO's they told me that they didnt make them with 16A. When I pointed out to them that that it said 16A on the side of the box they apologized and said sorry we changed them because we thought you would want some discrimination!

I still dont really know why the hell they changed them....
 
Badged01 said:
I think there hangs the problem, there is no way to ensure the person is 'safe' and 'competent' to do the job! Having completed an electrical apprenticeship in 1921 is no guarantee and Part 'P' has tried to address it but not far enough. As much as I hate the thought of it, another death may tip the balance into bringing in a higher level of assessed electrical 'competency' before being let loose alone to practise on the unsuspecting public!
Click to expand...

Let me get this right you are saying someone with 92 years experience wouldn't be a capable and competent electrician and Part P has solved this problem by deciding a person taking a 5 week course is capable and competent

What on earth are you talking about Part P and it's associated scams aren't competent to decide who is competent they wouldn't know what a proper qualification was if they fell over it
 
You can stand in similar stores and see people being handed items to deal with,that they have not a clue about.You can see the same thing occurring in the car spares supplier and you can see it in the school yard at home time..(think about it) If you think banning neons or part peeing it will stop any of that,your on crystal meth...
 
Tiny Spark said:
Amazing isnt it really, You would think the guys in the wholesalers would be trained.

Funny one I had a while back I ordered some 16A RCBO 3 phase commando socket outlets, Anyways despite coming in boxes saying just that they had been fitted with 20A RCBO'S.
Being rather puzzled by this I phoned the wholesaler and asked why they had been fitted with 20A RCBO's they told me that they didnt make them with 16A. When I pointed out to them that that it said 16A on the side of the box they apologized and said sorry we changed them because we thought you would want some discrimination!

I still dont really know why the hell they changed them....
Click to expand...


You won't get discrimination between a 16a mcb and a 63amp mcb so why they used that line i dont know.... Numptys... my fav word of the month!
 
Didnt the (new) CORGI inspectors go out training with the NICEIC inspectors when the system was being set up? NICEIC being long established at that time.

boydy
 
UNG said:
Let me get this right you are saying someone with 92 years experience wouldn't be a capable and competent electrician
Click to expand...

A “trained electrician” is competent at the time he’s trained. What makes you think he is still competent XX amount of years later? (what are these new RCD thingys people keep going on about, equipotential bonding you don’t need that, I use EBADS, what do you mean the 14[SUP]th[/SUP] edition isn’t valid etc…. etc...….) Aside from industrial electricians, where electrical works managers take an interest in updating his electricians, the self-employed “house basher” has no such governing body ensuring he’s competent to the latest standards and regulations.

So YES, IMHO someone who hasn’t been updated professionally won’t be competent and capable regardless of how many years he has had wiring plugs!. More importantly how do the unsuspecting public even know if he is competent to be working on their electrics?.

and Part P has solved this problem by deciding a person taking a 5 week course is capable and competent
Click to expand...

Part ‘P’ has nothing to do with 5 week courses! Part ‘P’ is there to decide if someone through a combination of experience, qualifications and training is competent to work in domestic premises. Which is my other point. IMHO Part ‘P’ currently isn’t good enough at assessing the competency of anybody to be able to work in domestic properties but the Govt disagrees and thinks it is!. I believe we need a better assessment system of an “electricians” competency that includes a measure of continuing professional development once ‘competency’ has been achieved.

Part P and it's associated scams aren't competent to decide who is competent they wouldn't know what a proper qualification was if they fell over it
Click to expand...

Clearly you are an all knowing ‘time-served electrician’ at the front of his profession. I would highly recommend you apply to the various bodies to be on their panels to assess competency and also advise C&G on qualification requirements. The industry need you to get us out of this current predicament we are in ......
 
Boydy said:
You need to get out more Badged, too much time on your hands :chillpill: :devilish:
Click to expand...

I know, semi-retirement means Ive got far too much time on my hands! Need her indoors to give up the job so we can both b*gger off to live in the sun and leave you good folk on here in peace :smile5:

Until then, idle fingers.......
 
telectrix said:
maybe if another MP's daughter gets electrocuted, part pee will be seen for the knee-jerk sham that it is and get booted into touch.
Click to expand...
I caught the end of a comment on the radio the other day about a recent house fire where people died and they are now saying it was electrical - not sure if it was in scotland or not?
 
richy3333 said:
I caught the end of a comment on the radio the other day about a recent house fire where people died and they are now saying it was electrical - not sure if it was in scotland or not?
Click to expand...

Sadly it will take something like this to tighten up the industry and force then hand around electrical 'competency'!
 
richy3333 said:
I caught the end of a comment on the radio the other day about a recent house fire where people died and they are now saying it was electrical - not sure if it was in scotland or not?
Click to expand...

Funny how a gas explosion gets headline on the BBC, yet the hundreds of house fires and deaths caused by electrical faults never get a mention. It's almost like somebody doesn't want people being put off DIY electrics...
 
Badged01 said:
I know, semi-retirement means Ive got far too much time on my hands! Need her indoors to give up the job so we can both b*gger off to live in the sun and leave you good folk on here in peace :smile5:

Until then, idle fingers.......
Click to expand...

I know your situation only too well.

I just wish I could afford to get out of this God forsaken sh!t pit our country has become.
 
Badged01 said:
A “trained electrician” is competent at the time he’s trained. What makes you think he is still competent XX amount of years later? (what are these new RCD thingys people keep going on about, equipotential bonding you don’t need that, I use EBADS, what do you mean the 14[SUP]th[/SUP] edition isn’t valid etc…. etc...….) Aside from industrial electricians, where electrical works managers take an interest in updating his electricians, the self-employed “house basher” has no such governing body ensuring he’s competent to the latest standards and regulations.

So YES, IMHO someone who hasn’t been updated professionally won’t be competent and capable regardless of how many years he has had wiring plugs!. More importantly how do the unsuspecting public even know if he is competent to be working on their electrics?.
Click to expand...

I don't know of any electricians across all sectors of the industry who trained under the 14th edition regs who are not aware of the 15th, 16th and 17th edition regs and are not conversant with them and have not evolved their skill set as the industry has changed and new products have come to market. These days there are people masquerading as electricians who are deemed competent by these Part P schemes and the homeowner doesn't know they if they are properly qualified to be working on their electrics.

My attitude has always been that if you don't keep up or ahead of the game then you are not going to survive in the industry

Badged01 said:
Part ‘P’ has nothing to do with 5 week courses! Part ‘P’ is there to decide if someone through a combination of experience, qualifications and training is competent to work in domestic premises. Which is my other point. IMHO Part ‘P’ currently isn’t good enough at assessing the competency of anybody to be able to work in domestic properties but the Govt disagrees and thinks it is!. I believe we need a better assessment system of an “electricians” competency that includes a measure of continuing professional development once ‘competency’ has been achieved.
Click to expand...

I don't see how you can say that Part P has nothing to do with the 5 week course when all these courses do is produce domestic installers whose certificates are accepted by these Part P schemes as proof competence

Badged01 said:
Clearly you are an all knowing ‘time-served electrician’ at the front of his profession. I would highly recommend you apply to the various bodies to be on their panels to assess competency and also advise C&G on qualification requirements. The industry need you to get us out of this current predicament we are in ......
Click to expand...

No I'm not all knowing as every day is a learning day, you seem to think electricians who qualified many years ago put their head in the sand and have learnt nothing from that day to this and are not now competent to work on electrics as they have not done any updating of their skills. What do you suggest a Electrical Trainee course to get up to date.

I can only think your comments reflect on your current skills and a lack of up to date knowledge of current electrical practices as I have worked with many older electricians cannot say they were not competent just because they qualified many years ago
 
UNG said:
I don't know of any electricians across all sectors of the industry who trained under the 14th edition regs who are not aware of the 15th, 16th and 17th edition regs and are not conversant with them and have not evolved their skill set as the industry has changed and new products have come to market.
Click to expand...

So you are now personally vouching for every electrician across all sectors (I assme you mean domestic, commercial & industrial) being fully conversant with current regs, best practise etc .. and competent to practise in the domestic market? …. Or could there possibly be ones out there that you don’t know who are incompetent?? Perhaps even ones who qualified as electricans, went to other jobs then many years later came back to work on houses without any upgrading?

These days there are people masquerading as electricians who are deemed competent by these Part P schemes and the homeowner doesn't know they if they are properly qualified to be working on their electrics. .
Click to expand...

So if there wasn’t a Part ‘P’ how would the homeowner know who was ‘competent’ or not? (Although I do not believe the standards set for 'competency' by the schemes is not as high as it should be!) Or am I to assume your argument comes from your claim above? i.e. before before Part ‘P’ came into force every electrician continually keeping ahead of all regs and legislation within the industry to ensure they were competent? Now wasn’t this one of the reasons Part ‘P’ was introduced ....... ‘electricans’ weren’t?

I don't see how you can say that Part P has nothing to do with the 5 week course when all these courses do is produce domestic installers whose certificates are accepted by these Part P schemes as proof competence.
Click to expand...

I take it you are not a member of a scheme, or if you are, you haven’t enquired with the assessors as to whether having completed a ‘5 week’ course gains you automatic registration? Have a chat with a few to enlighten yourself …… (Not saying that the odd 'bad' apple doesnt get through!)

you seem to think electricians who qualified many years ago put their head in the sand and have learnt nothing from that day to this and are not now competent to work on electrics as they have not done any updating of their skills.
Click to expand...

That’s my whole point! Who does know, or not know, if they have or haven’t kept up to-date and are still ‘competent’. In the industrial sector we tended to do a very good job of maintaining competency standards for the industry requirement but outside of this who ensures the self-employed electrican are ‘competent’ for example? (or even the industrial electrician wanting to moonlight on the week-ends with houses??)

I can only think your comments reflect on your current skills and a lack of up to date knowledge of current electrical practices as I have worked with many older electricians cannot say they were not competent just because they qualified many years ago
Click to expand...

How little you know about me! But my whole argument is around that as an industry we don’t have any on-going professional development to make sure every practising ‘electrician’ is fully conversant with current regs, best practise etc …… especially in the domestic sector. Your lucky that everyone you know has maintained themselves as ‘competent’ by doing where required relevant course, re-training, further study etc ….. I can however personally vouch for ‘electricians’ who I would call incompetent and in a previous existence as an electrical manager have sacked them! (Though that would be a politically incorrect statement now!) And I’ll bet I did’nt even scrap the tip of the 'incompetent' ice-berg out there …….

BUT I will get off my hobby horse and gracefully retire from the arena without any further comments on the subject as I know I prattle on too much …… well for now atleast ...... :wink_smile:
 
Geordie Spark said:
I know your situation only too well.

I just wish I could afford to get out of this God forsaken sh!t pit our country has become.
Click to expand...

I just wish I was younger and could leave her indoors at home and go myself ...... Im sure I could find a young "filly" to occupy my time until she arrived :wink_smile:
 

Reply to One back for the sparks! in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Similar Threads

O
Non payment and sign off
Bit of a rant first to explain the situation:- Effing builders again, I knew there was a reason we hardly ever work for them. We've done a few...
    • Like
Replies
25
Views
1K
oscar21
O
S
Help need some advice on Economy 7 meter
Hi, need some advice, I moved over from Sse in 2020 to Octpus energy. Whilst I was with SSE I was on E10 when I went over to octopus they put me...
Replies
1
Views
494
davesparks
davesparks
HappyHippyDad
Building a false floor for the new van.
I recently sold my Renault Trafic as it had done 214,000 miles and I also wanted something more economical. I bought the Citroen Berlingo LWB. A...
    • Like
    • Winner
Replies
34
Views
2K
grumpyjohn01
grumpyjohn01
E
Problem with bathroom extractor fan
Hi, my niece lives in a flat and has a bathroom without a window. There is an extractor fan which packed up and an electrician installed a new one...
Replies
4
Views
808
Elvistcb
E
D
Ireland Newbie looking for answer
Hi everyone I have started a new venture as a coffee shop owner and have gone out and bought my machine . Unknown to me the shop unit is not...
Replies
19
Views
2K
nicebutdim
nicebutdim

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

YOUR Unread Posts

Tags

advice aus cable circuit course earth electric electrical electrician hello led light lighting lights looking new please question rcd socket supply switch testing training wiring
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by untold.media Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Tiling Advice
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock