Discuss OSO hotwater boiler_Issue heating the water in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Thank. Are you able to send me a picture of your meter and the items around it please?

The reason I want this picture is I suspect the electricity supply for your night immersion heater is or has been controlled by the meter. To take advantage of cheap overnight electricity ie E7 you need to sign up for this tariff and you are not it seems. So your meter will not turn on the bottom element on during the E7 cheap rate period.

There are a number of ways to control an immersion heater to use E7 which is why I need the picture(s).
 
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The plumber changed the thermostat in both the top and bottom elements.
It may be the thermostat is set a little too low in temperature but we can come to that later.
I don’t have anything in that cupboard where the tank is that says “Off peak”. Also, back in October I changed to a credit meter.
Please send me a picture of meter and what is around it.
About the righthand side switch that says “Night immersion” you are right. I never see the orange light on.
When/if you get up in the night betwee 0000 and 0700 could you take a look at the right switch for the Night Immersion and see if the orange light is glowing? Don't do it exactly at 0000 or 0700 'cos the switch on and offs can be staggered.
As for the economy 7, I had called British Gas and they told me I’m not on Economy 7. I’m on the variable tariff.
I am on a variable tariff but still have E7. Just look at your latest bill since the new credit meter and see if you can see day and night rates.
I called OSO and I’ve sent them photos, the replacements that were done by the plumber and what the issue is and they told me that probably the immersion heater is faulty. Could that be right?
Yes it could be the bottom element has failed. But I cannot say anymore just now. You are getting hot water from the top element still?
The plumber told me that he has ordered new parts for the cylinder, hasn’t told me what these parts are.

Photo attached of the consumer unit.

Thanks for your help!
:)
 
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I wouldn't mind sending a pic of the meter reading, but where can I find this? Would it be in a communal area in the building or in the cupboard where the water tank is?

Yes, I'm only getting hot water from the top element.

I looked at the latest bill and there are no day or night charges. Attached the latest bill for your info if that helps.
 

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I would expect it to be where your previous prepayment by money key/token was located.

And not far away at all from the grey thing with 100A written on the side nor far from your consumer unit. Can you ask neighbour where their one is?

Your bill shows you are on a single rate tariff of 38p a kiloWatthour with no cheaper rate periods at night or during the day.

Do you have electric space heating?
 
Photo attached of the meter. Does this help?

Can I ask British Gas to add me to the E7? or how is this done?

Do you have electric space heating?
Yup, I have electric heaters to heat the rooms if that's the question. I don't have gas at all in the flat.
 

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Nicole - I think any further advice from me will have to await the repair by the plumber using the parts on order: do you have a return date?

Once this is done you need to confirm with him which element he has left connected to the timer which is to the left of the Delta Dore controller labelled 'Heating'.

Then we need to have another discussion including changing your tariff to one which includes periods of cheap electricity if your usage of space and water heating suits those on offer/available to you.

Is your flat similar to others in the block? If your flat's design for water and space heating is repeated in neighbouring flats it would be helpful to see some pictures of their electrical equipment ie the sort of pictures you have provided me already.

Is this fine with you for now? Do say if not.
 
Well, I'm confused to be honest I worry if the plumber makes things worse and end up without hot water at all.

How is it possible that after he changed the parts it worked for a day and then the next day nothing? That's what I don't understand. What could that mean?

I just feel that if I don't understand a little bit what is happening then I don't know if I can understand whether he knows what he is doing or not.

Could it be a problem with the switches and not the water tank at all?
 
Well, I'm confused to be honest I worry if the plumber makes things worse and end up without hot water at all.

How is it possible that after he changed the parts it worked for a day and then the next day nothing? That's what I don't understand. What could that mean?

I just feel that if I don't understand a little bit what is happening then I don't know if I can understand whether he knows what he is doing or not.

Could it be a problem with the switches and not the water tank at all?

While anything is possible (almost), I'd advise continuing with the investigative process started by @marconi

He seems to be working methodically through the possibilities and providing the information requested will result in a thorough analysis of the problem. Granted this may not be as fast as a visit from a local spark, but his help here isn't being charged at an hourly rate.
 
Nicole: Thank you for your last post. You are clearly exasperated and who wouldn't be. I'll explain what I think is the situation at the moment.

1. Your flat relies on electricity for space and water heating. To be most economic you need to be on a dual rate electricity tariff such as Economy 7 or Economy 10. These provide periods of cheaper rate electricity. Time switches are used to turn the space heating and water heating on and off to utilise the cheaper rate periods. At the moment you do not have a dual rate tariff. I believe you 'lost' a dual rate tariff when you swapped from the pre-payment meter to a credit meter with British Gas.

2. Your hot water tank has two elements, the bottom one to use cheaper rate electricity and the top one as a boost using whatever tariff is operating when it is on. What I cannot know now is whether the time switch to the left of the Delta Dore controller was for the bottom element to switch it on during cheap rate; the top element being then simply controlled manually by the left hand 'Water Heater' switch - you'd have to remember to turn it on and off.

3. I reckon though that the time switch to the left of the Delta Dore is for the top element as it is used now. The bottom element was then being switched on and off for the cheap rate by the old prepayment meter. There is a hint to this set up by the thinner brown grey vertical wire going into the brown plastic box with 'PROTEUS' written on it. I believe it previously went into your old prepayment meter. But since your change to a credit meter, which does not have an output which switches on and off during cheap rate, it has been connected to the brown box which now provides a permanently on supply for the bottom element. The bottom element is now only being controlled manually by the right hand 'Night Immersion Heater' switch. Thus, the change from prepayment to credit meter has resulted in no time control of the bottom element meaning it has been on constantly albeit regulated in temperature by its thermostat. Meter change men/women are not obliged to ensure any downstream effects of the meter change are attended to. So since your meter change I believe - perhaps you can confirm from experience - the top element has been controlled on/off by the time switch left of the Delta Dora and the bottom element has been on permanently if its switch is on.

4. Now, I may not have the full history of this panel correct because one can see a square white plastic blank fitting bottom left below the 'Immersion Heater' switch. It may have once had a square timer here which looks like this:

Electrisaver Immersion Heater Booster - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Water_Heating_Index/Immersion_Heater_Timers_2/index.html

or this

24 Hour GP/Immersion Heater Timeswitch - Flush/Surface | Timeguard (NTT01) - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SMNTT01.html

These would control the top element. The timer to the left of the Delta Dora would then do the bottom element.

5. With me so far? ;-)

6. Good. You told me that you had never seen the right hand 'Night Immersion Heater' switch orange light on when the switch is on. This is odd because now, since the credit meter, it has a permanent supply all day long via the red switch and the 16A circuit breaker on the far right of the consumer unit and it is clear from the photo that these two switches are both on - they in the up position. This indicates that the supply has been disconnected somewhere at or before the 'Night Immersion Heater' switch. This begs the question why would someone do this?

7. I suspect - cannot know for certain - the plumber has disconnected the supply to the bottom element because he found it defective. The spare on order would be the replacement element. He may have temporarily connected the top element to the timer to the left of the Delta Dora to the top element or it may have been always so.

8. I cannot investigate the disconnected supply because it would require live electrical equipment to be opened up. This is why I said we must wait for the plumber to return and finish his work and I asked you to clarify with him how the top and bottom elements have been connected.

9. When we have two working elements we can discuss dual rate tariffs which depending on your lifestyle and electricity use profile may be more economical. You could have a read of these in the meantime from which you will learn about E7 and E10 and some other tariffs.

What is an Economy 7 meter? | Understanding Economy 7 - https://www.uswitch.com/gas-electricity/guides/economy-7/

What is Economy 10? A complete guide to Economy 10 meters and tariffs - https://www.uswitch.com/gas-electricity/guides/economy-10/

7 facts about Economy 7 meters, tariff and times - https://www.edfenergy.com/energywise/all-you-need-know-about-economy-7

10. I hope this provides some clarification. The most important thing to say is that as a tenant your landlord is responsible for fixing this problem in a timely fashion using qualified contractors. It is reasonable to wait say a week maybe two weeks at most for spare parts but any longer it is not. How long ago since the plumber visited?

11. I have sent you my mobile number if you want to call me. If I don't answer straight away leave a message or send me a text/whatsapp.

PS: Re your #6 - it looks like the top element white wire goes into the timer and the bottom element white wire goes into the white plastic trunking - is this still the case?
 
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