other trades

[Plonker 3]

If the Spur has come of a ring or radial with 13A sockets it will need to be RCD protected because you have altered or added on to an existing circuit thus you need to bring the whole circuit up to current regs.

411.3.3 (I)gives you al the info you need

please note there are ecseptions to this. If you have a good reason why the circuit should not be RCD protected and have carried out a risk assesment.

however the definition of a good reason is debatable.

In in a dwelling risk assessments are not permitted therefore exclusion of RCD's are not accepted for this reason.

another exception is a suitably identified socket outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment. So this may be your exemption on the alarm. However if there are other 13a sockets on that circuit it will need to be RCD protected.

Why does the whole circuit need RCD/RCBO protection?

 

[telectrix]

If the Spur has come of a ring or radial with 13A sockets it will need to be RCD protected because you have altered or added on to an existing circuit thus you need to bring the whole circuit up to current regs.

411.3.3 (I)gives you al the info you need

please note there are ecseptions to this. If you have a good reason why the circuit should not be RCD protected and have carried out a risk assesment.

however the definition of a good reason is debatable.

In in a dwelling risk assessments are not permitted therefore exclusion of RCD's are not accepted for this reason.

another exception is a suitably identified socket outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment. So this may be your exemption on the alarm. However if there are other 13a sockets on that circuit it will need to be RCD protected.

i disagree. by adding a FCU to a non-RCD socket circuit, you are not leaving the circuit less safer than before. you could add a RCD socket and still leave the rest of the circuit without RCD protection.

 

[Deleted account]

i disagree. by adding a FCU to a non-RCD socket circuit, you are not leaving the circuit less safer than before. you could add a RCD socket and still leave the rest of the circuit without RCD protection.

I accept you are quite correct, but my understanding is that if you alter or add to a circuit you have to bring up to current regs. Am I wrong?

 

[telectrix]

you need to ensure that the circuit is safe for continued use ( including checking earthing/bonding and fixing if reqd.). it's the addition that you do that needs to be to current regs.

 

[Deleted account]

you need to ensure that the circuit is safe for continued use ( including checking earthing/bonding and fixing if reqd.). it's the addition that you do that needs to be to current regs.

That's not the way I have interpreted or worked to the regs in the past. I have to admit your way would be a bit more easier and desirable. I would be interested if any one else interprets it your way or mine. Would be nice if I'm wrong.

 

[Andy78]

That's not the way I have interpreted or worked to the regs in the past. I have to admit your way would be a bit more easier and desirable. I would be interested if any one else interprets it your way or mine. Would be nice if I'm wrong.

Tel's way, as it is correct.

 

[Geordie Spark]

That's not the way I have interpreted or worked to the regs in the past. I have to admit your way would be a bit more easier and desirable. I would be interested if any one else interprets it your way or mine. Would be nice if I'm wrong.

You should be feeling very happy now!

 

[Pete999]

If the Spur has come of a ring or radial with 13A sockets it will need to be RCD protected because you have altered or added on to an existing circuit thus you need to bring the whole circuit up to current regs.

411.3.3 (I)gives you al the info you need

please note there are ecseptions to this. If you have a good reason why the circuit should not be RCD protected and have carried out a risk assesment.

however the definition of a good reason is debatable.

In in a dwelling risk assessments are not permitted therefore exclusion of RCD's are not accepted for this reason.

another exception is a suitably identified socket outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment. So this may be your exemption on the alarm. However if there are other 13a sockets on that circuit it will need to be RCD protected.

Thonk you will find it's only the new work that has to be RCD protected, for example a spur from an existing RFC which is not RCD protected, should be protected ie an rcd fcu

 

[Deleted account]

You should be feeling very happy now!

Extatic!:clap:

..........................

 

[Leesparkykent]

Tel's way, If you spur of an existing ring final circuit for say a switched fused spur and the installation method of the addition doesn't require RCD protection.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Tel's way, If you spur of an existing ring final circuit for say a switched fused spur and the installation method of the addition doesn't require RCD protection.

You know ..... when you have a think about it Wor Tel's a canny bright bloke for a Scouser.

(He passed his 11 Plus & got a Degree in nickin' hub caps ye kna.)

 

[Andy78]

Extatic!:clap:

..........................

Don't just take our word for it though. Open up the regs and read the introduction to see it in black and white.

 

[telectrix]

You know ..... when you have a think about it Wor Tel's a canny bright bloke for a Scouser.

(He passed his 11 Plus & got a Degree in nickin' hub caps ye kna.)

i did pass 11 +, but only attained onc level in the hub-cap nicking department, as, when i was 12, the family left liverpool to move to staffy cher. there i was introduced to some pikeys and obtained my degree in copper theft by the age of 14.

 

[Deleted account]

Don't just take our word for it though. Open up the regs and read the introduction to see it in black and white.

Just read it " the regulations apply to the design, erection, verification of electrical installations, also additions and alterations to existing installations."

 

[Andy78]

Just read it " the regulations apply to the design, erection, verification of electrical installations, also additions and alterations to existing installations."

And the rest of the paragraph;

"Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions of the regulations may not comply with this edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading"

This is the important part that Tel was referring to when stating that only your work has to comply with the regs, and the rest of the installation can stay as it is as long as it is safe. This sentence is also rather important when carrying out periodic inspection and testing.

 

[telectrix]

And the rest of the paragraph;

"Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions of the regulations may not comply with this edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading"

This is the important part that Tel was referring to when stating that only your work has to comply with the regs, and the rest of the installation can stay as it is as long as it is safe. This sentence is also rather important when carrying out periodic inspection and testing.

.
spot on. it's ignorance of that which accounts for earlier CUs being condemned by some as being unsafe due to having no RCD protection etc.

 

[Deleted account]

And the rest of the paragraph;

"Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions of the regulations may not comply with this edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading"

This is the important part that Tel was referring to when stating that only your work has to comply with the regs, and the rest of the installation can stay as it is as long as it is safe. This sentence is also rather important when carrying out periodic inspection and testing.

existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions. Yes I read it. But the way I read it is the existing are fine you don't need to do anything with them until you do additions or alterations to that circuit.

i find it amazing that different People can read the same thing and interpret it differently. It seems clear to me what it's saying.

on this point maybe we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Deleted account]

.
spot on. it's ignorance of that which accounts for earlier CUs being condemned by some as being unsafe due to having no RCD protection etc.

I have never condemned a cu or indeed any installation for being unsafe due to changes in regs. There is no need. You can bring individual circuits up to latest regs without going to that extreme.

 

[Andy78]

existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions. Yes I read it. But the way I read it is the existing are fine you don't need to do anything with them until you do additions or alterations to that circuit.

i find it amazing that different People can read the same thing and interpret it differently. It seems clear to me what it's saying.

on this point maybe we will have to agree to disagree.

So by your way of reading it, if you carry out an alteration you must bring up every aspect of the whole installation to the current standards ? and you do that for every job ?

 

[Deleted account]

So by your way of reading it, if you carry out an alteration you must bring up every aspect of the whole installation to the current standards ? and you do that for every job ?

No not the whole installation just a circuit I am altering or adding to.